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Russia declares war on memes

Memes Russia

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#61
Walsingham

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Laws everywhere are meant to be abused. We have an anti terror one that one can use to move on groups the government deems a threat. Like environmentalists, etc.

Oh well, usual narrative

 

Thought: If I posted the statement

 

"Laws are for arseholes"

 

I suspect many people I completely disagree with would upvote it, having misconstrued the syntax.



#62
Malcador

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Well, I suppose you could say that is true, laws are for arseholes as they are aimed chiefly at behaviour of said group. That would be stretching the 'for' a bit beyond the commonly understood usage though.

#63
Rostere

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Russia declares war on history.



#64
BruceVC

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Appalling but it shouldn't surprise us that Putin will look to present Communism and the history of the USSR as a benevolent movement that really only annexed countries like Czechoslovakia because  " they were protecting the Czechs from  West influence  "  



#65
Rostere

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Putin is not a communist in any sense of the word though. It is really Russian imperialism in the guise of Soviet imperialism he is trying to excuse.


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#66
Chilloutman

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ex-KGB is not communist? hard to believe


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#67
Meshugger

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The Tsarist reverence for a strong leader in Russia is far more ingrained in their culture that communism.



#68
Chilloutman

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The Tsarist reverence for a strong leader in Russia is far more ingrained in their culture that communism.

 

Well, there is problem - true communism never existed anywhere. Russians just use this ideology to get their imperium up and running. Lenin at least try to look as communist (and evil one to core) but from Stalim onward it was just dictatorship as any other



#69
Zoraptor

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Meh, whitewashing history is something everyone does. Not like the average British doco on Churchill mentions the crappy stuff he did, or the US doesn't celebrate a genocidal maniac on their bank notes, or the Poles get all knicker knotted about getting partitioned but didn't do it to Czechoslovakia nor stab Lithuania in the back when they were fighting the soviets. And our national myth involves lionising lots of naive chaps going off to die utterly pointlessly in Turkey for the benefit and at the command of imperialist buffoons half a world away.

 

You won't find a single country that even approaches frank and honest in their view of their own history. It's not what countries do, at heart they're just like sports fans- we're skillful, honest and brave supporting the bestest team in the entire world; otoh the referee is biased and the opposition are dishonest thugs who dive and cheat.



#70
Rostere

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Meh, whitewashing history is something everyone does. Not like the average British doco on Churchill mentions the crappy stuff he did, or the US doesn't celebrate a genocidal maniac on their bank notes, or the Poles get all knicker knotted about getting partitioned but didn't do it to Czechoslovakia nor stab Lithuania in the back when they were fighting the soviets. And our national myth involves lionising lots of naive chaps going off to die utterly pointlessly in Turkey for the benefit and at the command of imperialist buffoons half a world away.

 

This illustrates the worst of cynicism.

 

We should be morally obliged to be mad when people try to revise history to justify atrocitites, just as we should applaud and praise those who shine light on atrocities which have been forgotten or revised in the past. Russia had previously officially apologized for the brutal invasion and occupation of Czechoslovakia. This catharsis was something which strengthened Russia in the global diplomatic scene and gave them increased credibility, especially in Eastern Europe. To backtrack on this is not only an indicator of the increasing disconnect with reality in the Russian internal political scene, but something which will greatly interfere with Russian relations with Eastern European countries, leaving them even more a diplomatic midget, sputtering jingoistic nonsense while country after country in their vicinity comes knocking at NATO's door. At this rate, Belarus will apply for NATO membership in 2017. Sadly, Russia believing that everything that goes against them in the geographical vicinity is a "Western conspiracy" turns out to be a very self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

You could write a list about every atrocity that has ever occurred, and calculate their awfulness, and see which political entities have the most luggage, and the most undeclared luggage. My perspective is mostly observing that the current state of global affairs is stable, but as things change, this might not be so. So drastic changes are of interest, and keeping track of which way every country is heading is of importance. Most countries are on the path of inceasing awareness of historical atrocities, so it is interesting and noteworthy to see a country heading in the other direction.

 

 

You won't find a single country that even approaches frank and honest in their view of their own history. It's not what countries do, at heart they're just like sports fans- we're skillful, honest and brave supporting the bestest team in the entire world; otoh the referee is biased and the opposition are dishonest thugs who dive and cheat.

 

Challenge me, I have a frank and honest view of the history of my country, which is by and large shared by the general population, to the degree which they are familiar with history of course. Germany has handled Nazism's legacy in a way that almost borders on overcompensation (from personal experience - I have spent quite some time in Germany).

 

It is true, but typically obvious to the point of being meaningless, to state that everyone is guilty of most crimes to a degree. But to frame it to sound like an equivalence is where cynicism turns to idiocy through oversimplification.

 

BTW, you should change your avatar to this, it reflects your personality better:

 

BigXan.jpg


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#71
KaineParker

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The Tsarist reverence for a strong leader in Russia is far more ingrained in their culture that communism.

 
Well, there is problem - true communism never existed anywhere. Russians just use this ideology to get their imperium up and running. Lenin at least try to look as communist (and evil one to core) but from Stalim onward it was just dictatorship as any other

I thought Lenin said his government was State Capitalist?

#72
BruceVC

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Meh, whitewashing history is something everyone does. Not like the average British doco on Churchill mentions the crappy stuff he did, or the US doesn't celebrate a genocidal maniac on their bank notes, or the Poles get all knicker knotted about getting partitioned but didn't do it to Czechoslovakia nor stab Lithuania in the back when they were fighting the soviets. And our national myth involves lionising lots of naive chaps going off to die utterly pointlessly in Turkey for the benefit and at the command of imperialist buffoons half a world away.

 

This illustrates the worst of cynicism.

 

We should be morally obliged to be mad when people try to revise history to justify atrocitites, just as we should applaud and praise those who shine light on atrocities which have been forgotten or revised in the past. Russia had previously officially apologized for the brutal invasion and occupation of Czechoslovakia. This catharsis was something which strengthened Russia in the global diplomatic scene and gave them increased credibility, especially in Eastern Europe. To backtrack on this is not only an indicator of the increasing disconnect with reality in the Russian internal political scene, but something which will greatly interfere with Russian relations with Eastern European countries, leaving them even more a diplomatic midget, sputtering jingoistic nonsense while country after country in their vicinity comes knocking at NATO's door. At this rate, Belarus will apply for NATO membership in 2017. Sadly, Russia believing that everything that goes against them in the geographical vicinity is a "Western conspiracy" turns out to be a very self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This particular paragraph is really pertinent, accurate and insightful. I hope everyone reads it...nice perspective  :thumbsup:

 

But you do know it will be utterly lost on Zora, he is far too anti-Western to see the truth in what you say 


Edited by BruceVC, 02 June 2015 - 09:21 AM.


#73
Enoch

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The NYT Magazine with the latest on the Russian trolling industry.

 

One account was called “I Am Ass.” Ass had a Twitter account, an Instagram account, multiple Facebook accounts and his own website. In his avatars, Ass was depicted as a pair of cartoon buttocks with an ugly, smirking face. He filled his social-media presences with links to news articles, along with his own commentary. Ass had a puerile sense of humor and only a rudimentary grasp of the English language. He also really hated Barack Obama. Ass denounced Obama in posts strewn with all-caps rants and scatological puns. One characteristic post linked to a news article about an ISIS massacre in Iraq, which Ass shared on Facebook with the comment: “I’m scared and farting! ISIS is a monster awakened by Obama when he unleashed this disastrous Iraq war!”


#74
Malcador

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Russia declares war on history.


Hm, might be interesting to watch to see what is so objectionable. Point for the sensationalist tile of the link, though. I guess it does depend on Russia 1's nature, CBC here is a state owned network but it's not too tightly held.

#75
Agiel

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Putin is not a communist in any sense of the word though. It is really Russian imperialism in the guise of Soviet imperialism he is trying to excuse.

 

This. The Soviet Union really was just the old Czarist Empire in new clothes. The dissolution of the Warsaw Pact and the subsequent break-up of the Soviet Union was part of the same breakdown of the old European colonial system represented by India and the like for the British Empire and Algeria and Indochina for the French, it just happened a little later for the Russian Empire, the only difference being that the Empire was land-based rather than sea-based as the British and French Empires were; only half of the pre-collapse population of the Soviet Union was Russian, and given the demographic problems plaguing Russia now even if its military hadn't spent itself into bankruptcy, the demographics issue would have had a similar result at maximum a few decades down the line.

 

Without the vestiges of the old Empire, Russia is "just" (emphasis not mine) another European country, albeit one that's abnormally large and doing its damnedest to go it alone a la Norway.


Edited by Agiel, 02 June 2015 - 02:03 PM.

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#76
Zoraptor

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Meh, whitewashing history is something everyone does. Not like the average British doco on Churchill mentions the crappy stuff he did, or the US doesn't celebrate a genocidal maniac on their bank notes, or the Poles get all knicker knotted about getting partitioned but didn't do it to Czechoslovakia nor stab Lithuania in the back when they were fighting the soviets. And our national myth involves lionising lots of naive chaps going off to die utterly pointlessly in Turkey for the benefit and at the command of imperialist buffoons half a world away.

 
This illustrates the worst of cynicism.

 

 

Nah, it's realism. The two are frequently interchangeable because much of the time reality does suck.
 

We should be morally obliged to be mad when people try to revise history to justify atrocitites


Ideally, yes, ideally all history should be objective truth telling that gives the facts and allows the reader to make informed conclusions rather than having the author preach their views to their audience. Ideally.

 

Realistically there (1) ain't enough time in the day to get upset at that as you'd get upset at pretty much everything short of Thucydides (2) different people get outraeged!!! at different, selective things and (3) there's no way any selection of people will all agree on what constitutes objective and what constitutes a fact- see any wikipedia article on any slightly controversial subject, albeit wikipedia doesn't actually claim to be fact based, only verifiable; which ought to be easier. In some ways I wish more people were as honest in that appraisal, in others I wish more people would be fact based. Either way I might as well wish for world peace and an end to famine while I'm at it, they're both as realistic a wish.
 

 

You won't find a single country that even approaches frank and honest in their view of their own history. It's not what countries do, at heart they're just like sports fans- we're skillful, honest and brave supporting the bestest team in the entire world; otoh the referee is biased and the opposition are dishonest thugs who dive and cheat.

 
Challenge me, I have a frank and honest view of the history of my country

 


Country overall, not every given individual in a country. I'd say I had a pretty objective view of my country's history for example- I would think that, after all- but there's plenty of generally accepted stuff in our history I disagree with.
 

BigXan.jpg


Doomsday from Wing Commander would be better, since he's a maori so at least ultimately from New Zealand Taiwan. Has a french name, but meh. Xan's cool too, though.







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