Ranged Rogue, Quick Switch, Arms Bearer, Island Amunua and Reload

[Dashel84]

Two things I wanted to discuss,

 

So by now most people are aware of the beauty of the quick switch rogue. In short, you carry 2 to 4 rifles, and use quick switch to fire all four of them faster than it would take to fire and reload one.

 

I love this whole "Brace of Pistols" idea which is very true to life, however its been mentioned that Quick switch may actually be bugged - it's possible to quick switch constantly in melee with slow weapons, to skip the longer 2 hand swing recovery time, for the very short quick switch time. If this is the case, it'd be interesting to posit just how it's supposed to work. (You can get around heavy armor recovery times this way too).

 

Regardless, I'm trying to build a rogue that both works, looks stylish, and is good RP as well. Not liking Island Amuana (did i say that right?) I wanted to see if Quick Switch was worthwhile without the extra rifles. I built a human rogue with just quick switch, one with quick switch and arms bearer and one island amunua with quick switch and arms bearer.

 

Honestly what I found was that Quick switch on it's own is still worthwhile on PoTD. The reason being is on PoTD, enemies have enough health and deflection that 4 fast shots at the start of battle is a smaller proportion of your total shots in a fight then say in hard mode, where 4 shots and the fight is basically over. Once those 4 rifles are done, u are two talents down and at normal reload speeds. To be honest, 4 shots will take out one opponent fast, which is useful, but I don't agree that you *must* be island amuna to benefit from quick switch.

 

Taking it by itself gives you quite a bit of flexability. I quite enjoy using an Arquebus to start combat with a higher damage sneak attack, and then switch to Pistol for it's faster attack speed once combat begins. You could also consider using an Arquebus for High DT targets, then switching to Blunderbuss for low DT ones.

 

Taking arms bearer in addition to quick switch seems less valuable to me. Sure, you get one single extra fast shot per encounter, but over a long fight, it's a pretty small damage increase compared to other talents you can take, and is only valuable for bursting down high value targets.

 

It's also worth mentioning that a human rogue in leather armor (the kind u get near the cook, not the kind u start with) with a white hood, makes you look like an assassins creed assasin, and having a pistol in your hand and a rifle over your shoulders looks badass.

 

 

This is the build I'm going for:

 

1A Blinding Strike

2T Marksman

3A Dirty Fighting

4T Quick Switch

5A Finishing Blow

6T Gunner 

7A Deep Wounds

8T Envenomed Strikes

9A Withering Strike

10T Vicious Fighting

11A Deathblows

12T Devastating Blow

 

Mig 15 Dex 18 Int 15 (Rest 10) - Mainly for PC Dialogue purposes, otherwise I'd go Mig 20, Dex 18 Rest 10.

 

Its worth noting that although Dex doesnt affect reload speed, I still find 18 vs 10 dex to be a noticeable increase in overall attack speed. Also worth noting that attack speed malus (such as penetrating shot) hardly affects guns at all (as it doesnt affect reload) so can be useful even for pistols.

 

 

The idea with this build is to sneak attack Arquebus, then switch to pistol. The only talents I'm uncertain on are 8, and 12. I'm hoping +2% for devasating blow is a typo? and with withering/finish/blindstrike, I wonder if envenomed strikes, as good as it is, just wont get used due to slow pistol speed.

 

I'd also like to point out that ive tested venom strikes with a blundebuss, and it doesnt get applied 6 times, combat log makes it appears as if it does, but in reality it just uses your best hit of the six, so all blunderbuss does it guarantee that venom will be applied, and most likely be a crit (but only one).

 

Any thoughts on taking shadowing beyond as an escape? maybe backstab for final talent, just for 2m range annhilations? Maybe take arms bearer for final talent?

[Phoynix]

My understanding was DEX effected ALL things including reload speed.

Reloading takes up about 75% of the entire shooting time... So if you are noticing a big difference then it seems its due to dex effecting reloading.

 

Yep it does

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71165-action-speed-vs-attack-speed-and-dex-how-does-it-all-work/

Edited April 14, 2015 by Phoynix

[Exoduss]

I play this build on my rangers all the time due to vicious aim marked pray and stuff like accuracy from pets , Island Aumaua , Quick Switch at lvl 2 , at lvl 4 arms bearer talent and onto blunderbuss hunt get 3 and 1 weapon with increased reload like holdwall or forgiveness and then gunner at lvl 6 , also maxed might from aumaua helps alot and dexterity affects all the speeds that are included in this playstyle(Except reload one i think but you dont reload much after firing 3 blunderbusses and 1 arbalest )

Edited April 14, 2015 by Exoduss

[MadDemiurg]

The thing I don't like about these builds is that you need 4 blunderbusses, preferably good ones. Even the basic ones are expensive, and you're not going to have 4 lead spitters or 4 superb ones.

[Exoduss]

You need 3 actually and 1 Fast reload gunner weapon like arbalest after firing 3 blunderbusses you can keep smacking from arbalest with fair speed if you have gunner also a chanter could help here too, for the early game equipment : dissapointer+fine and fine pistol from sea cave in compass combined with any xbow or arbalest will do , and after caed nua u can get as many blunderbuss as you need , most annoying thing for me is the fact that if you move a bit then your wait time between shots increases unless you get shot on the run talent , but this is avoidable if you position yourself well untill you get the talent at the very end or if you are fine without it and rely on positioning 

Quick Switch , Arms Bearer , Gunner , Penetrating Shot , Envenomed Strike , Shot on the Run would be my final build i think 3 best blunderbusses , and something like hold wall for weapons , Armor that has 0% recovery penalty , potion if you need to kite due to lack of talents .  Island Aumaua is a must here tho because of the racial and +2 might so you can get 21 might .

 

Reason to build this on ranger because you get like 0 good ranger talents so yeh .... 

Edited April 14, 2015 by Exoduss

[MadDemiurg]

Vicious/Swift aim and the piercing shot one (don't remember the name) ARE good for guns, just not as good as sneak attack.

 

Ranger would probably start from vicious aim and switch to swift aim when initial shots are done.

 

3 (good) blunderbusses is still a lot.

Edited April 14, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Dashel84]

My understanding was DEX effected ALL things including reload speed.

Reloading takes up about 75% of the entire shooting time... So if you are noticing a big difference then it seems its due to dex effecting reloading.

 

Yep it does

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71165-action-speed-vs-attack-speed-and-dex-how-does-it-all-work/

 

 

I tested this last night by creating an 18 dex and a 3 dex character, firing, then running around till recovery ended, then stopping both at the same time, so they simultaneously began reload and saw no difference. I only saw a difference in the aim/recovery times.

[Infares]

My understanding was DEX effected ALL things including reload speed.

Reloading takes up about 75% of the entire shooting time... So if you are noticing a big difference then it seems its due to dex effecting reloading.

 

Yep it does

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71165-action-speed-vs-attack-speed-and-dex-how-does-it-all-work/

Dex IIRC doesn't affect reload speed, but it affects Action Speed and Recovery. Reload speed is its own stat that's weapon-dependent and is reduced by the Gunner talent and a Chanter Phrase.

[Dashel84]

 

My understanding was DEX effected ALL things including reload speed.

Reloading takes up about 75% of the entire shooting time... So if you are noticing a big difference then it seems its due to dex effecting reloading.

 

Yep it does

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71165-action-speed-vs-attack-speed-and-dex-how-does-it-all-work/

Dex IIRC doesn't affect reload speed, but it affects Action Speed and Recovery. Reload speed is its own stat that's weapon-dependent and is reduced by the Gunner talent and a Chanter Phrase.

 

 

Exactly, this is easy to test. Dex most definitely does not affect reload speed. That's not to say it isn't still valuable, just not as much as you'd expect.

[MadDemiurg]

Recovery penalty also does not affect reload speed. 3 DEX arquebus fullplate chanter ftw!

[Vasya]

 

So by now most people are aware of the beauty of the quick switch rogue.

And the party of 6 quick switch rogues is 6 times more beautiful.

[Ouroboros226]

 

 

Its worth noting that although Dex doesnt affect reload speed

Crap

 

I built a 20 dex wood elf wizard with the primary purpose being the use of wizard buffs to make a wizard gunslinger. So 20 dex is wasted completely? And the alacrity (1.5x actionspeed buff) won't work either then for reloading guns?

 

So much for a ranged combat mage *sigh* 

 

Really silly that dex does not affect reload speed. The devs need to fix this asap. No logic that a person with good dexterity spends just as long reloading a gun than clumsy oaf. 

[Exoduss]

Guys seriously... why you even discuss reload speed in this thread? please explain? this topic clearly is about quick switching and whole point of quick switch is TO NOT RELOAD , and by the time you gona start reloading in a  fight it will be almost over with just few last mobs left either small adds or a tougher one that needs finishing , and for that you need weapon with magical reload speeds like forgiveness or holdwall , also dexterity discussion is pointless there is nothing better than Might and Dext for thease builds and actually when you max Might and Dex you can just leave other points spare they wont make huge impact to your game tbh ( some int might be nice but not a must ) , so even tho dex doesnt affect reload speed ( which we clearly dont care about with quick switch build ) it is still a must stat to max for both ranger and rogue , it decreases your quick switch and recovery time , with proper dexterity , quick switch and without armor you can fire blunderbusses faster than bow's just saying (moving gives huge penalty for recovery speed with ranged tho try to avoid that )

 

Edit : another note i dont think its worth to pass rogue's talents for this build while building ranger you get 0 yes and i am not even joking 0 good talents ( on the other hand ranger skills compliment the build alot ) so this build is way to go for a ranger and might be done on rogue for some AC4 flavor.. :D

Edited April 15, 2015 by Exoduss

[Dashel84]

Guys seriously... why you even discuss reload speed in this thread? please explain? this topic clearly is about quick switching and whole point of quick switch is TO NOT RELOAD , and by the time you gona start reloading in a  fight it will be almost over with just few last mobs left either small adds or a tougher one that needs finishing , and for that you need weapon with magical reload speeds like forgiveness or holdwall , also dexterity discussion is pointless there is nothing better than Might and Dext for thease builds and actually when you max Might and Dex you can just leave other points spare they wont make huge impact to your game tbh ( some int might be nice but not a must ) , so even tho dex doesnt affect reload speed ( which we clearly dont care about with quick switch build ) it is still a must stat to max for both ranger and rogue , it decreases your quick switch and recovery time , with proper dexterity , quick switch and without armor you can fire blunderbusses faster than bow's just saying (moving gives huge penalty for recovery speed with ranged tho try to avoid that )

 

Edit : another note i dont think its worth to pass rogue's talents for this build while building ranger you get 0 yes and i am not even joking 0 good talents ( on the other hand ranger skills compliment the build alot ) so this build is way to go for a ranger and might be done on rogue for some AC4 flavor.. :D

 

This is true, even though Dex doesn't affect reload speed, it still affects recovery time and attack speed, and there really isn't anything else a ranged rogue would use these points for.

 

It's amusing that Chanters get practically nothing from Dex, little from Intellect, and not much from might either. They seem to be the perfect tank for no other reason then they have crappy talents and abilities.

[Exoduss]

Atm playing with 1 Ranger Gunner ( quick switch build) and 1 Ranged Rogue ( Crit build not orlan tho ) in my team , damn the burst even on PoTD i can always choose 1 enemy who dies before fight starts and 1 who will die runing to us , just need to micromanage those switches for two to five characters also i rely heavy with my party on using guns and arbalests for a pull Both front liners uses Arquebus because of the range , priest ranger and rogue uses arbalests and only wizard has no gun because he always has some aoe debuffs to land early in a fight , after the pull i swap arquebuses to sword and shield for tanks , and ranger and rogue swaps theey arbalests for proper weapons ( guns for ranger and borresaine for rogue) , priest on the other hand never Lets his arbalest go due to how awesome reload+spellcasting works there is no point to switch for him , So for a proper fight i would switch guns 7-8 times for one battle that takes alot of microing and most fights are not worth it even on path , but the tougher fights can be made easy this way

Edited April 16, 2015 by Exoduss