petrivanzyl Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just leveled up a bit before the facin the Sky Dragon and got the Gaze of Adragan. So as I was facing the dragon i though hey maybe this is a good time to test my new spell. It grazes the dragon but petrifies him (her?) for 13 secs. Fight over, dragon dead in 5 secs. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just leveled up a bit before the facin the Sky Dragon and got the Gaze of Adragan. So as I was facing the dragon i though hey maybe this is a good time to test my new spell. It grazes the dragon but petrifies him (her?) for 13 secs. Fight over, dragon dead in 5 secs. WTF? Its the most broken spell out there. I made a thread QQing about it yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientToaster Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Everyone cry nerf! They will nerf it and everyone will cry "BUFF IT BACK!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) It makes monsters with petrify stupidly OP, it also makes fights where you use it stupidly easy. My chanter is max level full defensive and when i fight an adragan i just pray they dont cast petrify because despite having +100 in ever defence it always hits for about 10 seconds and I get shredded because its stupidy OP. Either reduce the duration or the debuffs but in its current state itsjust retarded. Its broken to the extent that when Im assessing how dangerous a fight is going to be the first question I ask isnt how much damage do hey do or how much hp do they have the first thing i check is if any of them cast petrify, then paralyze, then stunlocks. At least give us scrolls/potions to defend against petrify.... Edited April 13, 2015 by Ceranai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon Rose Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Honestly, SoL spells like petrify are just a bad idea in general. I'd rather cry "Remove It" than nerf it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Honestly, SoL spells like petrify are just a bad idea in general. I'd rather cry "Remove It" than nerf it. Id be fine with either. If people want an instant win button/instant lose button they should play with console commands, things like that shouldnt be in the game by design. Literally the only thing i can do with adragans is send in a figurine/summon first and try to burst them down before the summon inevitably dies (and even then they have unlimited casts. I mean seriously? why the hell does the ai have unlimited casts) I thought the point of games like this was that you were supposed to be on a similar footing to the mobs you fight. Edited April 13, 2015 by Ceranai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Hermit Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Nothing like this existed in the IE games either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solidbry Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Everyone cry nerf! They will nerf it and everyone will cry "BUFF IT BACK!" I feel like I'm playing WoW again... This is exactly what's been going on in this game for 10 years basically But yeah in all seriousness, it can't stay that way. One can just enable cheats if one wants to insta-kill things knowm sayin' Edited April 13, 2015 by solidbry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incendax Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just cry "Twist It!"Cool. They're an invulnerable statue. Like an offensive Withdraw. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knownastherat Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Nothing like this existed in the IE games either. Imprisonment or Time Stop? Admittedly first one is single target and the other cc but there were sequencers, contingencies, pre-buffs, invisibility! - mechanics so "OP" that make Petrify pale in comparison. I still do not understand why such concern. Its not mandatory to use it and if enemies do, well, the game is not balanced around solo play. That said I don't care if devs hear to this and nerf it or remove it. It will have no impact on my games. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MReed Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Nothing like this existed in the IE games either. I'm assuming that this is sarcasm, because... Yeah, there were lots of effects like these in the IE games (hold person = paralyze, basilisks for petrify, mind flayers for domination, and so forth). Many of these effects were instant death -- some allowed for the possibility of another character rescuing the first. The difference is that in the IE games there existed hard counters to each of these abilities (free action counters hold person and a host of similar effects absolutely, potion of mirrored eyes counters petrification, chaotic commands counters domination, etc.). If you had (and knew to use) the hard counter, the encounter was trivial -- if you did not, then it was time to reload. In PoE, the explicit design intent was to remove hard counters (& abilities that require hard counters) and this vision was implemented by converting all effects into (fairly short) durations -- in IE, petrify is permanent, while in PoE is is simply a longer lasting version of paralyze. Conceptually, this means that the player can survive any effect by simply "waiting it out". How well this works in practice... Well, see this thread (and others like it). But that's why you won't see spells or effects that provide immunity to specific status effects in PoE, and I really doubt that they will ever be created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckmann Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Nothing like this existed in the IE games either. Well it did. It just didn't work against anything with any self-respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Hermit Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I personally haven't gotten Gaze of the Adragan off on anything substantial in PoE either. OTOH I recall Chromatic Orbing multiple dragons in BGII. And in PoE I think I've gotten my tank hit by Petrify once on Path of the Damned and that's it so far - and I still won that fight. I don't mean to defend "save or die" spells necessarily, I'm just surprised people are upset about an IE inspired game having a few. Edited April 13, 2015 by Odd Hermit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugged Wolf Companion Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I personally haven't gotten Gaze of the Adragan off on anything substantial in PoE either. OTOH I recall Chromatic Orbing multiple dragons in BGII. And in PoE I think I've gotten my tank hit by Petrify once on Path of the Damned and that's it so far - and I still won that fight. I don't mean to defend "save or die" spells necessarily, I'm just surprised people are upset about an IE inspired game having a few. its because some think they "have" to play solo ond PotD thus raging hard when they are petrified. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knownastherat Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I personally haven't gotten Gaze of the Adragan off on anything substantial in PoE either. OTOH I recall Chromatic Orbing multiple dragons in BGII. And in PoE I think I've gotten my tank hit by Petrify once on Path of the Damned and that's it so far - and I still won that fight. I don't mean to defend "save or die" spells necessarily, I'm just surprised people are upset about an IE inspired game having a few. Not bad for level 1 spell indeed. There was, with some of them, downside = no loot. After all that is also what RPGs are about loot, decisions, consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) I personally haven't gotten Gaze of the Adragan off on anything substantial in PoE either. OTOH I recall Chromatic Orbing multiple dragons in BGII. And in PoE I think I've gotten my tank hit by Petrify once on Path of the Damned and that's it so far - and I still won that fight. I don't mean to defend "save or die" spells necessarily, I'm just surprised people are upset about an IE inspired game having a few. its because some think they "have" to play solo ond PotD thus raging hard when they are petrified. No-one thinks we have to play solo... I was fine playing full party until it became far too easy. It is possible to challenge the player without adding instadeath to the game. Also im not in favor of the player being able to use it either its like adding a missile launcher to a game like rome total war its overkill because its so much better than every other spell in the game that other spells dont even come close, also i could understand if the durations were shorter it might be a bit fairer but a graze lasts something like 6 seconds, thats six seconds in which 1-3 attacks will kill you (i can take two). Its also not like I havnt beaten it anyway i just dont like having to resort to cheesy tactics ranging from things that i view as semi exploits like taking advantage of the braindead AI just to overcome bad design decisions and abusing game mechanics till they break to burst down anything that has petrify Edited April 13, 2015 by Ceranai 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infares Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Not sure if they had the full gamut of Coup de Grace rules in the IE games before 3rd and 3.5/PF came out, but actually any form of paralysis really was a save or die situation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MReed Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Coup de Grace only applies to creatures with, I believe, 5 HD less than you, requires a full round action, and provokes an attack of opportunity, so it isn't that powerful... NWN 1 & 2 were the only D&D CRPGs that implemented this (Temple of Elemental Evil likely did as well, now that I think of it). But, yeah, hold person and similar spells in D&D CRPGs are effectively save or die (that's why I included them on the list), because the duration is long enough that you will most certainly be killed prior to them wearing off naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukefx Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Lets not forget bouncing confusion from Umber Hulks which was pretty much an instant reload for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazeltov Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I just cry "Twist It!" Cool. They're an invulnerable statue. Like an offensive Withdraw. A creature who gets Flesh to Stone'd in D&D (3.5) actually gets damage reduction, rather than a massive damage vulnerability. I think Petrify would be an interesting affliction as a long duration, typically single-target complete disable that also caused the victim to lose aggro (not just Engagement) against nearby mobs. So it would still be "the tank killer" against players, in the sense that mobs would leave the harmless statue alone and hunt down other party members. Sort of like Otiluke's Resilient Sphere. Being a top tier disable, it would have some innate resistance to being cleansed off (I think it already has wonky interaction with cleanses). Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is : its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukefx Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The issue is with ToI and soloers. What would be the point of losing aggro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The issue is with ToI and soloers. What would be the point of losing aggro? Yea but we are a valid part of the community, there needs to be SOME way to avoid instant game over without cheesing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mazeltov Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The issue is with ToI and soloers. What would be the point of losing aggro? Soloists are of zero concern in any balance discussion. Either the solo achievements were a joke by the devs, or, my own pet theory, Josh's way to bait out the cheesers so he can find the cheese and quash it in future patches. 4 Exoduss, on 14 Apr 2015 - 11:11 AM, said: also secret about hardmode with 6 man party is : its a faceroll most of the fights you will Auto Attack mobs while lighting your spliff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infares Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The issue is with ToI and soloers. What would be the point of losing aggro? Soloists are of zero concern in any balance discussion. Either the solo achievements were a joke by the devs, or, my own pet theory, Josh's way to bait out the cheesers so he can find the cheese and quash it in future patches. Given how clever I believe Josh to be, it's probably the latter. And yes, it's brilliant bait for just that purpose. Thing is, they seem to support the idea of "clever use of game mechanics" such as high-int Warriors and the like. Retaliation proccing One Stands Alone, generating Focus, and proccing Draining are problematic, as well as OSA's implementation, and I think stuff like THAT is the real cannon fodder for the TCS achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceranai Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 The issue is with ToI and soloers. What would be the point of losing aggro? Soloists are of zero concern in any balance discussion. Either the solo achievements were a joke by the devs, or, my own pet theory, Josh's way to bait out the cheesers so he can find the cheese and quash it in future patches. They are probably a joke by the devs, three crowns mirrors an achievement in EU4 another paradox game called three mountains taht devs have explicitly stated is meant to be impossible... Still its a stupid spell, especially when adragans get unlimited casts on it, it makes them the second hardest mobs in game just because of one spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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