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2 Major Cities? Obsidian.... I think you know you stretched the 'truth'

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Obsidian promised two major cities.... what they delivered was one major city (Defiance) and one half-baked city..... they know in their hearts they didn't make good on their promise.  I still love the game, but I was excited to have two large cities to explore and Defiance Bay felt well-developed in most respects (a little light on the random, smaller encounters and hidden secrets but overall good) but the second city?  Pfah.

 

Great game - but I'm not going to not call out Obsidian - especially if you hype this as a major selling point and then don't deliver.

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All I want is the loading times to be smoother when navigating these cities. It's a major pain when doing errand quests and you have to go transition area/houses/stairs

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Yeah, I can't say that I wasn't a bit disappointed at Twin Elms. After seeing Defiance Bay, Twin Elms was a definite let-down, and I'm not sure how they're meant to compare. Twin Elms feels like too little, too late in the game.

 

 

Also, more non-compulsory wilderness areas, pl0x. "Twin Elms" felt like it would have loads of wilderness areas around it, but it really doesn't. There's just two compulsory, road-y ones, Elmshore and Northweald. :(

 

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What is a huge city? The selling point was this -> Quote Joshua Sawyer from PE Update #20, about the second big city stretch goal:" Multiple exterior maps, bunch of interior maps, bunch of characters, bunch of quests". I say Twin Elms got that. It's not as formidable as Defiance Bay in scale, but it's a big city in IE perspective.
I say they made good on their promise. The lore about the different groups in Twin Elm is really cool, and the quests and locations, Bloody Sands etc., are pretty cool.

I do regret doing all other quests before venturing into Twin Elms. like Luckmann pointed out, it felt very late in the game. I think my experience would have been better, if I had gone there way earlier and done some stuff, gone back to defiance Bay and so forth.
 

Edited by TheisEjsing
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.... I thought Twin Elms was pretty. Could it use a few more houses? Sure. But it was great how contrasting it was to Defiance Bay. 

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What is a huge city? The selling point was this -> Quote Joshua Sawyer from PE Update #20, about the second big city stretch goal:" Multiple exterior maps, bunch of interior maps, bunch of characters, bunch of quests". I say Twin Elms got that. It's not as formidable as Defiance Bay in scale, but it's a big city in IE perspective.

 

Selective quoting there. The entire quote is:

 

 

Baldur's Gate and Athkatla are big cities. Spanning multiple large maps with a ton of interiors, characters and quests, big cities are a lot of fun. Like strongholds, they also take a lot of work to do well. We're going to have one big city in Project Eternity. Would you like two? If you take us on an exciting adventure to $3.5 Million, we will take you on an exciting adventure to another big city

They name dropped Baldur's Gate and Athkatla. If you're going to use those cities as the benchmark as big cities then I expect something similar in size.

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I do regret doing all other quests before venturing into Twin Elms. like Luckmann pointed out, it felt very late in the game. I think my experience would have been better, if I had gone there way earlier and done some stuff, gone back to defiance Bay and so forth.

 

 

unfortunately unles you leave the sidequest and rush the main quest, you cant get to Twin Elms early

 

what i would like is some new quests in defiance when you get to twin elms and back


PIllars of eternty (Hard) 1st playtrough: 155h, 38 m (main Ranger with bear(bow), Eder, Durance(off tank), Hirvais(off tank), Kana(ranged), Aloth/GM)
PIllars of eternty (PtoD) 2nd playtrough: 88h 30 m (main Bleak Walker Paladin, Eder, Barbarian, Monk, Rogue (ranged) Cypher(wand)
(not counting reloads and experimenting)
status i love the game, hate the bugs, and wish for better AI and Pathfinding

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78749-needed-qualyty-of-life-improvements-information-and-transparency/

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I'm in Twin Elms right now and it seems fine. Defiance bay really had 5 major areas, Twin Elms has 4. Compared to the crappy little villages around them, yeah, they're major cities.

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Wasn't a selective quote. I took his words from the video, didn't quote the written update, which I should have included. I fail however to see what the problem is? It's a big city, it doesn't have to be as big as Baldurs Gate to be a big city. If you feel they should have matched Baldur's Gate in size, that's bad for you.

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[...]

 

I do regret doing all other quests before venturing into Twin Elms. like Luckmann pointed out, it felt very late in the game. I think my experience would have been better, if I had gone there way earlier and done some stuff, gone back to defiance Bay and so forth.

Specifically going to Twin Elms before doing more local quests and such would feel contrived and artificial. Your complaint is essentially a pacing issue with the game, and it's not your fault that you chose to do quests as you discovered them, or in an order that you felt made sense.

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I actually thought Twin Elms was fine. For the type of city it is, I think the size made sense. I also think the locations within it are good. Nice and varied with some interesting backstory and lore. 

It was also damn pretty. I'm usually not a fan of the tribal tree-cities in RPGs but I thought Twin Elms was excellent, one of the better ones I've played.

 

Defiance Bay may have been bigger and with more content but I think it was not quite as interesting generally speaking. Or rather, the material is there it just... I dunno, it didn't quite have that "bustly" feel to it, the feeling that something lies behind every corner. I like the history, politics and all the stuff within it but I think what the player actually got to do was a bit underwhelming. It lacks A) the smaller, more random-feeling encounters that makes the city "lively" and B) the grander, more sweeping quests. There's just a lot of stuff in between.

 

So yeah, I quite enjoyed Twin Elms but I felt Defiance Bay could've done with more loving overall. Ondra's Gift was a wonderful area though.


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the only problem with Twin Elms i had was from RP perspective. I know where the big bad has gone, and whats he trying to do, i know how to get to him and stop him, but instead i go around solving (rp wise) minor quests (and i even went and did endless paths at that point)

 

In character, as soon as you ar able to get to the twin elms , you should rush after the bad guy ignoring the rest

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PIllars of eternty (Hard) 1st playtrough: 155h, 38 m (main Ranger with bear(bow), Eder, Durance(off tank), Hirvais(off tank), Kana(ranged), Aloth/GM)
PIllars of eternty (PtoD) 2nd playtrough: 88h 30 m (main Bleak Walker Paladin, Eder, Barbarian, Monk, Rogue (ranged) Cypher(wand)
(not counting reloads and experimenting)
status i love the game, hate the bugs, and wish for better AI and Pathfinding

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78749-needed-qualyty-of-life-improvements-information-and-transparency/

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So yeah, I quite enjoyed Twin Elms but I felt Defiance Bay could've done with more loving overall. Ondra's Gift was a wonderful area though.

 

Yea except for the area that is infact monster infested, Ondra's Gift is the only one that feels  realy populated, and has most content by far


PIllars of eternty (Hard) 1st playtrough: 155h, 38 m (main Ranger with bear(bow), Eder, Durance(off tank), Hirvais(off tank), Kana(ranged), Aloth/GM)
PIllars of eternty (PtoD) 2nd playtrough: 88h 30 m (main Bleak Walker Paladin, Eder, Barbarian, Monk, Rogue (ranged) Cypher(wand)
(not counting reloads and experimenting)
status i love the game, hate the bugs, and wish for better AI and Pathfinding

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78749-needed-qualyty-of-life-improvements-information-and-transparency/

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So yeah, I quite enjoyed Twin Elms but I felt Defiance Bay could've done with more loving overall. Ondra's Gift was a wonderful area though.

 

Yea except for the area that is infact monster infested, Ondra's Gift is the only one that feels  realy populated, and has most content by far

 

 

Definitely. Ondra's Gift had it all. Murdered children, rape, prostitutes, haunted lighthouses, drug pushers, assassins and alcoholics.. What's not to like?

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- How can I live my life if I can't even tell good from evil?

- Eh, they're both fine choices. Whatever floats your boat. 

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They did cut another major area from Twin Elms -- a forest cemetery that would have been accessed through the archway next to the Golden Grove.

 

More would be nice of course, but I'm happy enough with the size of the game as shipped. And I hardly think this counts as Molyneux-level overpromising


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They did cut another major area from Twin Elms -- a forest cemetery that would have been accessed through the archway next to the Golden Grove.

 

More would be nice of course, but I'm happy enough with the size of the game as shipped. And I hardly think this counts as Molyneux-level overpromising

Nothing counts as Molyneux-level overpromising except the promises of Molyneux himself.

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I haven't made it as far as Twin Elms yet, so can't comment on that, but I found Defiance Bay had its good and bad points. The five districts is very reminiscent of Baldur's Gate, of course. And as has been noted, there was quite a bit of cool stuff in Ondra's Gift and I also thought Copperlane was pretty solid. But I found First Fires and Brackenbury quite light on content. And they seemed small. Not a lot of buildings to poke around in (although the loading times would make entering and leaving a lot of non-plot related buildings somewhat tedious).

 

I was also amused at the 'Kirkwall feel' of it, as I think of it. Specifically, the comment as you're entering about the influx of refugees and yet when you're wandering the city you're kind of left wondering "So where are they hiding these thousands of refugees?" At least, I felt that way.

 

I think overall, what pulls Defiance Bay up short is that the areas are actually relatively small, and there just doesn't seem to be the bustle of activity that there was in Baldur's Gate or Athkatla. So it really doesn't have the feel of a big city. More of a large town, I guess.

 

Don't misunderstand me though, I really like the city, but I feel it could be so much more. The potential there is enormous.

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Twin elms was so late in the game and so after the level cap, that i was glad it was so short as completionist in me can't just skip quests.

So there is an upside =)

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Twin elms was so late in the game and so after the level cap, that i was glad it was so short as completionist in me can't just skip quests.

So there is an upside =)

 

Same for me, my party was all capped when running around Twin Elms so I pretty much turned into an ****, spitting on windows, knocking over bicycle stands, littering etc. 

So in response to the question; "what can change the nature of a man?", well, level cap. Level cap made me an ****. 

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- How can I live my life if I can't even tell good from evil?

- Eh, they're both fine choices. Whatever floats your boat. 

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Beregost is a major city compared to PoE places. Four buildings and 20 dudes standing around doesn't do it for me.

 

Ok, if they were going for depopulated ghost town feeling, they did a good job.

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I actually liked Twin Elms as much as Defiance Bay personally. Another area that size would have been nice but as is I loved those two areas.

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the only problem with Twin Elms i had was from RP perspective. I know where the big bad has gone, and whats he trying to do, i know how to get to him and stop him, but instead i go around solving (rp wise) minor quests (and i even went and did endless paths at that point)

 

In character, as soon as you ar able to get to the twin elms , you should rush after the bad guy ignoring the rest

 

That was my main beef as well. At this point it makes no sense to go around doing menial quests, while you know where Thaos is, how to get to him, while also knowing time is running out and yur Awakening will come soon.

 

In futre playthroughs I'll leave Twin Elms for the late game. Which is a bit of a shame but there's really no justifying it otherwise in-universe.

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Baldur's Gate and Athkatla are big cities. Spanning multiple large maps with a ton of interiors, characters and quests, big cities are a lot of fun. Like strongholds, they also take a lot of work to do well. We're going to have one big city in Project Eternity. Would you like two? If you take us on an exciting adventure to $3.5 Million, we will take you on an exciting adventure to another big city

They name dropped Baldur's Gate and Athkatla. If you're going to use those cities as the benchmark as big cities then I expect something similar in size.

 

Indeed. But despite this, I'm still going to be lenient in my criticism of that particular aspect of the game. Mainly because despite how small and un-city-like Defiance Bay and Twin Elms feel, I would have to say that they're the two parts of the game that I actually enjoyed the most.

 

I rank them higher than the mega dungeon experience, higher than the wilderness exploration, and about a bajillion times higher than the stronghold.

Edited by Stun
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I think the level cap is too low for the amount of content in the game. 15 would have been a better place to cap IMO.

 

And Twin Elms seemed smaller than I expected. Guess Eora just isn't very populated.

Edited by KaineParker

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