BrickleberryPi Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Ok, so basically, Dunryd Row is a spy organization and feared throughout Defiance Bay. Ok, I get that. Hadret House is their base of operations inside a portion of the city. It makes sense to have a base of operations inside the city so that part of the lore is fine. What doesn't make much sense is why is Hadret House so well known to be the base of operations for a spy organization? Why should it be so publicly known and yet the house isn't so heavily guarded? Wouldn't it make sense if people didn't know that Dunryd Row was operating inside there? Afterall, it's a spy organization, people should either be fearful and wonder where these guys and gals are located, or be fearful in approaching the house. It would have made more sense that people didn't know that Dunryd Row was operating inside the house and that could give the organization the feeling of hiding in plain sight. If not, wouldn't it make sense that the location of a publicly known spy organization be at least heavily guarded (real life example: CIA)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosbjerg Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 It was packed with capable agents.. I don't think it's a huge suspension of disbelief honestly, but I guess it would make more sense to be a part of the palace and thus protected by the palace guards. Then again what you saw was the HQ like Langley, perhaps not the only building - just the one meant for the public eye, so to speak. Fortune favors the bald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aron Times Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Dunryd Row IS heavily guarded. All of the NPCs there are ciphers, including Lady Webb herself. It's just that they got overwhelmed by the combined forces of the angry mob + the Leaden Key (who probably steered the mob towards Dunryd Row). It's one of the main concepts of the World of Darkness. An individual vampire/mage/werewolf is powerful, but will go down to 1039848739 mortals attacking him at the same time, especially if those mortals have access to modern technology like explosives, machineguns, flamethrowers, etc. That's why vampires have to rule behind the scenes instead of out in the open. I'm pretty sure that Dunryd Row tried to defend itself during the riots, but eventually fell to the sheer number of rioters and Leaden Key agents blending in with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varana Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 It's also not only a secret spy organisation. Its outside face is a kind of detective agency or criminal investigation bureau, and that part of Dunryd Row works in the open. Therefore I have sailed the seas and come To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats Χριστός ἀνέστη! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukefx Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 We all know the locations of RL intelligence organization's HQs. There is nothing special about it. Other base of operations are kept secret tho. This may be the same case in the game. Dunryd Row may have other hideouts. As for security, many have pointed out that a building full of cyphers is indeed heavily guarded. If Thaos wouldn't have gone in himself, his lackeys wouldn't have had a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aron Times Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And Thaos indeed led the charge. He probably buffed the mob and allowed them to overwhelm the ciphers in Hadret House. Lady Webb was the last to fall, either because she was the most powerful or Thaos saved her for last. The only survivor was the halfling orlan cipher who just happened to be out eating at the time (it was either his day off or he was on break). If you return to Hadret House later in the game, you'll find him trying to recover the documents left behind. Presumably, there are other Dunryd Row agents scattered all over Dyrwood that he can regroup with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrickleberryPi Posted April 12, 2015 Author Share Posted April 12, 2015 Dunryd Row IS heavily guarded. All of the NPCs there are ciphers, including Lady Webb herself. It's just that they got overwhelmed by the combined forces of the angry mob + the Leaden Key (who probably steered the mob towards Dunryd Row). It's one of the main concepts of the World of Darkness. An individual vampire/mage/werewolf is powerful, but will go down to 1039848739 mortals attacking him at the same time, especially if those mortals have access to modern technology like explosives, machineguns, flamethrowers, etc. That's why vampires have to rule behind the scenes instead of out in the open. I'm pretty sure that Dunryd Row tried to defend itself during the riots, but eventually fell to the sheer number of rioters and Leaden Key agents blending in with them. This whole time I assumed that the agents in the house were merely low level agents who weren't ciphers. When Webb mentioned she lost four ciphers trying to infiltrate the Leaden Key, I interpreted it that it was a big deal losing ciphers and that she meant ciphers were top level agents. Even so, if they were all Ciphers, wouldn't it have made sense to detect the mob far away and at least try to evacuate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkathellar Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 For context: The CIA is headquartered in Langley, Virginia. MI5's main office is at Thames House, in London. Intelligence organizations are rarely, themselves, secret. It's what they're doing that's hidden from sight. There's actually a lore-book suggesting this is the case with Hadret House - some people believe that Dunryd Row is, itself, a decoy. 1 If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time. Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cirdanx Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Ok, so basically, Dunryd Row is a spy organization and feared throughout Defiance Bay. Ok, I get that. Hadret House is their base of operations inside a portion of the city. It makes sense to have a base of operations inside the city so that part of the lore is fine. What doesn't make much sense is why is Hadret House so well known to be the base of operations for a spy organization? Why should it be so publicly known and yet the house isn't so heavily guarded? Wouldn't it make sense if people didn't know that Dunryd Row was operating inside there? Afterall, it's a spy organization, people should either be fearful and wonder where these guys and gals are located, or be fearful in approaching the house. It would have made more sense that people didn't know that Dunryd Row was operating inside the house and that could give the organization the feeling of hiding in plain sight. If not, wouldn't it make sense that the location of a publicly known spy organization be at least heavily guarded (real life example: CIA)? Despite the fact that everyone in there is a though fight. Why should they? They have probably done very good for the people. And what is heavy guarding..look at the duc palace..there ar not much guards there. The city at this point is in peace, there is no need for guards when people are allready afraid of animacy, and Ciphers (which they have enough off) Two more guard at the front door wouldn´t change a thing. Information is power, just like in real life and that is their unique power, and they didn´t need to fear anyone except the LK. Edit: which lady webb knew she couldn´t do anything against it. Edited April 12, 2015 by cirdanx "A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives one." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand_Commander13 Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I never got the impression that there was ever even a fight for Hadret House. Remember, when Thaos possesses a person he can make them kill themselves. Lady Webb's memories involve a lot of commotion outside, but the first reference to noise in the house I remember is Thaos shoving the door open. Curious about the subraces in Pillars of Eternity? Check out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aron Times Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I'm not sure how strong cipher souls are, but Thaos can only possess the weak willed. Or the no-willed, in the case of the hollow born he possessed during the Baelreach Incident. I'm leaning towards the idea that Thaos, being the charismatic cleric thst he is, whipped the crowd into a furor and buffed them enough so they'd overwhelm the Sanitarium and Hadret House. Heck, he could've posed as a regular cleric of Woedica, urging the crowd to take rightful and just vengeance (Woedica's portfolio) against the soul butchers of the Sanitarium and the soul readers of Dunryd Row. He gets to preach his goddess's ideals and take out the two organizations who were best equipped to fight the Leaden Key. Three birds with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirigible Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 If not, wouldn't it make sense that the location of a publicly known spy organization be at least heavily guarded (real life example: CIA)? The entire bottom floor is filled with heavily armed Ciphers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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