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Karmashock

Wish there were an option to remove resting restrictions

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I love it when people say the resting "limits" keep the game balanced somehow. Wasting the player's time IRL = game now harder, apparently. With the same logic it would be making the game easier if Obsidian managed to bring loading times down. Oh well, I've wasted enough of my time trying to make them see reason in other threads. We can only hope Obsidian has someone with some sense in charge for PoE 2 and removes this idiotic mechanic there. As for PoE, I'd be amazed if someone doesn't make a mod for this at some point.

Edited by manageri

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 If you cant complete the area/dungeon your either there too early and its too hard or you have room to improve your play, or finally you should play at a lower difficulty.

 

 

I know many of the people thinking the Camp system kinda sucks have beat the game on PotD. The difficulty stuff is a tired argument, don't bother using it.

 

It's about our 2nd or third PoTD play through we begin to really see just how much of a chore this camp system is compared to BG2's system.  It's just not as good, simple as that.

 

This is a good point that I had not thought of (multiple play through). Slipped my mind since I am still on my first run. The reason I like the resting system is that it makes me play more like pen and paper. The translation between pen and paper to crpg has always been awkward imo with resting and spell casting being on the top of the list. The spell limit just makes more sense to me in pen and paper but not so much in a crpg and it usually results in resting all the time to make sure my spells are loaded. PoE feels like it struck a great balance between exploiting resting and using your wizards in a smart way (for me spells come out only in tough fights or surprise situations) where as in games NWN2 or BG I would ruin easy baddies with fireballs and what nots then rest (even when a group of enemies were visible but not yet aware of me. 

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Resting is not fun nor strategic to a lot of us, it is just stupid tedium BS timesink that only appeals to people who want dark souls POE edition.  I just wanted a game like BG and others, instead I got a broken game.  Resting was not that big a deal at the beginning, but later on it became a nightmare and I stopped using my mage all together and just played him as a gunslinger with rods to avoid resting as much as possible.  Oh, a creature..here, let me shoot them...bang, bang, bang...oh soooooo fuuuunnn (rolls eyes).  The fun is just sucked out of the game because of this stupid design (PLUS THE BS LOADING SCREENS!!!!).  It really needs an option to turn it off, there is ZERO reason not to do that for a singleplayer game.  How does one person playing affect another?  It doesn't, so why the resistance to just having an OPTION to turn it off.

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I find very annoying having to backtrack a lot just for acquiring new supplies. Just my opinion though.

Especially in combination with the infinite stash: on the one hand we have the cheesiest of convenience features for loot, while on the other hand the guys can't sleep in the same tent and bedroll two nights in a row.

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Its unrealistic that 8 hours of rest heals all your wounds. How come no ones complaining about that?

 

You should have to visit an in game hospital and spend 3-6 months in recovery every time you want your health refilled.

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Its unrealistic that 8 hours of rest heals all your wounds. How come no ones complaining about that?

 

You should have to visit an in game hospital and spend 3-6 months in recovery every time you want your health refilled.

 

This ties into a point I want to make;

 

If rest is unlimited, why bother with the mechanic at all? It's just a button you press after every fight to get everything back up. Random encounters? Only encourage you to rest compulsively if you don't want to be caught at 1/3 health with no spells. 

 

I just don't see the point of resting at all, if it is not limited in some way. I mean, cripes, it's not about realism surely.

Edited by Jasta11
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Its unrealistic that 8 hours of rest heals all your wounds. How come no ones complaining about that?

 

You should have to visit an in game hospital and spend 3-6 months in recovery every time you want your health refilled.

 

This ties into a point I want to make;

 

If rest is unlimited, why bother with the mechanic at all? It's just a button you press after every fight to get everything back up. Random encounters? Only encourage you to rest compulsively if you don't want to be caught at 1/3 health with no spells. 

 

I just don't see the point of resting at all, if it is not limited in some way. I mean, cripes, it's not about realism surely.

 

Exactly.  Their has to be a limit somewhere.

How does resting for 5 minutes restore characters to full health after being near death with no supplies no food, meds nothing. 

 

Although I am in favor of limiting rest I do think the system could be improved or changed. 

Edited by johnmr531

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Its unrealistic that 8 hours of rest heals all your wounds. How come no ones complaining about that?

 

You should have to visit an in game hospital and spend 3-6 months in recovery every time you want your health refilled.

 

Oh I agree there's issues with that, though they take a backseat to the current mechanic itself.

 

In the BGs and IWDs (it's been over a decade since I've played PST so I forget if it works the same there), one didn't heal all their wounds by resting alone. Magical healing was required, obtained either by spells cast by characters, priests, scrolls, or potions. The only thing resting restored 100% was a character's ability to cast spells. It did restore a few HP, based on your accommodation (and perhaps all of them if your character had any kind of health regeneration). That system made sense. People might complain about rest spamming but that's a personal choice, and the issues with rest spamming are smaller than the issues with PoE resting.

 

In PoE, we don't have magical healing. We don't have our toons waylaid as we rest (perhaps we do, as I've only played into Act 1, but I haven't seen it yet, and I've seen no one mention it). So the whole resting heals you all up is indeed hella goofy and makes no sense.

 

Was the IE system perfect? Well.... yes/no. I see nothing wrong with the rest mechanic at all. Gameplaywise it could have been made better (I do think there was some limitations on the technology at the time), by implementing more hard capped time requirements in the game (ie: if you don't get X done within X amount of time, you fail). This is the direction I'd have liked to have seen PoE go. A world that's more alive. Not the arbitrary crap limit on camping supplies we have (which actually wouldn't be that bad if they had a weight, and we had an encumbrance system).

 

The ideal resting mechanics in an RPG game with the setting we have is exactly what we had in the IE games, coupled with the day/hour clock having more meaning in the sense that you need to get some quests done within a certain amount of time or there are negative consequences, including you fail at your quest all together, and possible outright game over depending on what that quest is. As well as a little better AI than the IE games had in regards to being attacked while you're resting in possibly hostile place X.

Edited by Valsuelm
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Valsuelm   those are good points.  

Coming from alot of NWN where you could basically rest anywhere and restore everything I hated that system.  I'll honestly take any system that's thoughtful over NWN and DA.

Edited by johnmr531

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I always find it interesting how differently people play these games. It wasn't until I came to these boards that I knew rest spamming was a thing in BG. The only reason I ever really rested in that game was because my characters got fatigued. Now in Pillars, I see people complaining they have to backtrack to get more supplies, and others saying they don't seven use all the supplies they have.

 

I usually start of using per encounter skills first, and for most skirmishes, the fight is over by the time I'm done using those. For fights that linger longer, I will use a per rest ability or two. For the occasional really tough fights, I will use quite a few per rest abilities and usually need to rest after those fights as I would expect adventurers would need to. I don't see how people are using up all their per rest abilities/spells unless they are just nuking everything from the start of every battle.

 

If people just want to cast spells all the time without having to rest, they would either:

a) Have to weaken spells. I would hate this as I want spells/wizards to be powerful.

b) Have to make spellcasting time much higher. The more powerful the spell, the longer it would take to cast. I would actually like this and wonder if that could be modded in.

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Valsuelm   those are good points.

 

Yeah but the fact the he uses the word "toon" >_< to refer to player characters invalidates all of those points...

 

/pet peeve

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Honestly, I don't care much which system - unlimited resting with wandering monsters, resting supplies, per-encounter abilities only - is the most realistic or immersive or whatever.

 

What I care about is that from my personal experience the current system leads to good gameplay. It encourages me to think on the long term, to use spells efficiently and economically without going all-out in every fight, and in doing so it challenges me, even if it technically doesn't increase the level of difficulty. In particular, I love that with the current system I end up entering different fights with different resources available, and that's something that many alternate suggestions seem to lack.

 

I always find it interesting how differently people play these games. It wasn't until I came to these boards that I knew rest spamming was a thing in BG. The only reason I ever really rested in that game was because my characters got fatigued. Now in Pillars, I see people complaining they have to backtrack to get more supplies, and others saying they don't seven use all the supplies they have.

I usually start of using per encounter skills first, and for most skirmishes, the fight is over by the time I'm done using those. For fights that linger longer, I will use a per rest ability or two. For the occasional really tough fights, I will use quite a few per rest abilities and usually need to rest after those fights as I would expect adventurers would need to. I don't see how people are using up all their per rest abilities/spells unless they are just nuking everything from the start of every battle.

If people just want to cast spells all the time without having to rest, they would either:
a) Have to weaken spells. I would hate this as I want spells/wizards to be powerful.
b) Have to make spellcasting time much higher. The more powerful the spell, the longer it would take to cast. I would actually like this and wonder if that could be modded in.

 

or c) decrease the amount of spells a wizard can use per-encounter.

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If you need to rest and are constantly back tracking after every few fights then turn the difficulty down already!  The limited camping supplies are a for combat balance.  If you blow all of your spells in one fight your probably doing it wrong...

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I never rest-spammed in BG, either. I reloaded much less than I do in PoE, as well. In BG, I used abilities, as needed and was much more inclined to work through encounters gone less than ideally than I am in a game where "I may need it later" and "It's such a hassle to backtrack to recover health/buy supplies, I'd rather try again than deal with any but the smallest health deficit" govern. I'm enjoying the characters and the world, but combat feels like lots of slogging, but little fun, largely it seems due to a need solve what were for me non-problems.

 

More frequent ability use (currently possible, but inconvenient) can be balanced in a variety of ways. Personally, I think that all that's needed is to allow the player to carry more supplies, not to eliminate rest, but if more is needed allowing enemies to use abilities as often as the player should do it. The encounters themselves could also feature more varied opponents using more varied and interesting abilities. The idea should be, I would think, to implement challenge in ways that are enjoyable, not to impose a cycle of frustration on the player.  Feeling constantly deprived is not everyone's idea of fun. I think the the IE games were as widely beloved as they were precisely because they allowed for a bit of cheese. You didn't even need to eat the cheese. Just knowing it was available empowered you to play more boldly.

 

I'm also surprised by references to being able to sleep anywhere. Am I the only one who gott "You can't sleep here. Enemies are nearby" messages?

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Toggle resting mechanics on / off. Simple. It's a SP game. FONV has hardcore survival mode for folks who dig that, it isn't forced on everyone.

 

Or maybe a mode where if you leave a dungeon for 'X' amount of hours it re-stocks with monsters, maybe less than before maybe more. It's another roll of the dice.


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If it were up to me I would have made it harder. If you back track out of a dungeon without completing it because you ran out of rest supplies I would have made it so you would be attacked on your way out. ...

 

If you don't complete a dungeon I would make the enemies slowly respawn back.

 

I might even make it so that if u dont clear enough of the area around you to rest you have a higher chance of being attacked while resting.  Its too bad you cant barricade yourself in rooms before resting to make it "safer".  Survival stealth and lore could have helped with your chance of being attacked.  Mechanics to make you safer barricading yourself in.

 

<homer>Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.</homer>

 

I'd actually really like to see a future game in the PoE series with some of those dynamics.  I believe that might sort of rock.

 

Unfortunately, it would also probably alienate too many gamers raised on hand-holding games to be commercially viable as a default.  But oh how I'd like for it to be there as an option...

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Download IE mod. Press tilde in-game and write "rest"- done, you rest like in normal game.

 

I play like that and I do not seeing it as cheating. Current supplies system is not "hard" part of game. It is FRUSTRAITING part of game. It does not prevent me to finishing dungeon or map. It just makes me run back to buy supplies. It is not challange mechanic, it is fking frustrating and makes me mad.

 

However, good that IE mod is there. Now I feel much more like playing BG and IWD games.

Rest is rest. You lie and rest. Simple. And there is no winter or rain in POE....

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If people just want to cast spells all the time without having to rest, they would either:

a) Have to weaken spells. I would hate this as I want spells/wizards to be powerful.

b) Have to make spellcasting time much higher. The more powerful the spell, the longer it would take to cast. I would actually like this and wonder if that could be modded in.

 

A) Yea, if you are a high level wizard and your spells are too weak, it will feel broken.

B) Wizards casting time is already long, adding more and most of the fights will already be over by the time you cast your first spell.

 

There is still no valid arguments against including an option to turn off resting limitations.  It is a singleplayer game, it changes nothing for other people who still want to use the current system.

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Well, on the first page a fellow said to look at the nexus page for a mod. I didn't even know this game had mods yet but it does. The IE mod has a rest script that you can trigger by pressing ~ then typing "rest"... bang.

 

And you know what, that's all I need. I said it in the last post, I will decide how I play this game. I'm not in the habit of letting other people tell me how to play a single player game.

 

Many people have agreed with me that it is annoying. Whatever anyone else might feel, for those people like myself that don't like it... we do find it annoying.

 

Period. End of story. End of line. Staked out in the sun and left for dead. Done.

 

So, I'm using the IE mod and I'm typing in the command whenever I don't have camping supplies, am not near an inn, and need to rest. I will not backtrack for camping supplies ever again. It isn't a difficulty issue. It is an irriation issue.

 

I rather doubt the people that say this system is viable are using wizards to any great degree. I mained a wizard because that was my class from the old DnD games. And of course my first teammate also happened to be a wizard. So I was using two wizards for a really long time. I got down to the 15th level of endless with two wizards. And like clockwork... every two to four levels I'd burn through my camping supplies. I was level 7... using wizards. The spells kill the hell out of stuff but you need to actually USE them.

 

Later on, I got a cipher which is perhaps the easiest class I think I've ever seen. I use the mother character to one shot most clusters of mobs now... hilarious. And every time the encounter ends, she gets most of her power back. I mean... and the wizard of course just has to rest... he gets nothing but those weak as hell blasts every encounter. What a joke.

 

Next playthrough I'm going to do a cipher on whatever the hardest difficulty is... A full cipher team would just mow through everything. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM... ever person on the party throws out a strong aoe blast... and very little... even the bosses are going to be able to survive that. Ciphers are so strong and so so very cheap.

 

Try playing with a wizard and tell me the camping supplies aren't annoying. But I'd suggest you install the IE mod so you can just type "rest" when inevidably you need to do it.

Edited by Karmashock

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If people just want to cast spells all the time without having to rest, they would either:

a) Have to weaken spells. I would hate this as I want spells/wizards to be powerful.

b) Have to make spellcasting time much higher. The more powerful the spell, the longer it would take to cast. I would actually like this and wonder if that could be modded in.

 

A) Yea, if you are a high level wizard and your spells are too weak, it will feel broken.

B) Wizards casting time is already long, adding more and most of the fights will already be over by the time you cast your first spell.

 

There is still no valid arguments against including an option to turn off resting limitations.  It is a singleplayer game, it changes nothing for other people who still want to use the current system.

 

 That's fine, but in the same vein it should be in a menu that has options for Monks using their abilities without needing wounds, and Chanters be able to use their invocations with no restrictions. As it happens you're in luck and this is somewhat accessible from the console.

 

As far as the mechanic goes the idea was a strong one but as long as people are getting round this by backtracking and resting constantly it's just not working. I'm never a fan of soft restrictions like this anyway because people will frequently use the path of least resistance, even if it isn't good for them.

 

If that's you though then the best solution is probably to force yourself to abide by the limits as designed. Don't rest until your characters are all out of resources AND are low on health. If that's still not getting through with the supplied resources then try turning the difficulty down. If you think it's boring for a character not to be using all his resources every fight remember he's just 1 character out of 6. Control them as a group and consider when it's best to use which characters resources.

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If people just want to cast spells all the time without having to rest, they would either:

a) Have to weaken spells. I would hate this as I want spells/wizards to be powerful.

b) Have to make spellcasting time much higher. The more powerful the spell, the longer it would take to cast. I would actually like this and wonder if that could be modded in.

 

A) Yea, if you are a high level wizard and your spells are too weak, it will feel broken.

B) Wizards casting time is already long, adding more and most of the fights will already be over by the time you cast your first spell.

 

There is still no valid arguments against including an option to turn off resting limitations.  It is a singleplayer game, it changes nothing for other people who still want to use the current system.

 

 That's fine, but in the same vein it should be in a menu that has options for Monks using their abilities without needing wounds, and Chanters be able to use their invocations with no restrictions. As it happens you're in luck and this is somewhat accessible from the console.

 

As far as the mechanic goes the idea was a strong one but as long as people are getting round this by backtracking and resting constantly it's just not working. I'm never a fan of soft restrictions like this anyway because people will frequently use the path of least resistance, even if it isn't good for them.

 

If that's you though then the best solution is probably to force yourself to abide by the limits as designed. Don't rest until your characters are all out of resources AND are low on health. If that's still not getting through with the supplied resources then try turning the difficulty down. If you think it's boring for a character not to be using all his resources every fight remember he's just 1 character out of 6. Control them as a group and consider when it's best to use which characters resources.

 

I cannot speak for the other classes, I can only speak about wizards since that is my primary class and the only one I have seen people really have issues with.  The wizard is clearly broken compared to the other classes because of the rest mechanic.  Saying to ignore my character and just stick with other characters is silly.  I picked wizard because that is what I wanted to play, but thanks to the system you do not play that, you play a bad gunslinger instead.  It is just not fun.  Again, can easily be fixed with an option to turn off rest limits.  Having to resort to a mod to fix the broken system does not fix the broken system.

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I think the system is working like intended. You just don't like the system so it must be "broken." So, yes, I think you do need a mod to modify the game more to your liking. I have no problem with that. People can mod a single player game all they want.

 

People seem to want to have their wizards constantly casting spells. If that is the case, you are playing the wrong game. If you played Baldur's Gate or most any other IE game that this game is based on, you would know that (unless you rest-spammed).

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I think. Is good meant, but bad made. It works, when you restrict yourself to don´t use all spells in one ore two encounter. So instead of 3 or 4 Fireballs you cast only one of them, then maybe some lvl 2 and 1 spells and then your magic missles per encounter ability. But this works only, when the enemys are not too strong.

 

The point is, the player need to restrict himself and this will never work for all players.

 

Instead they run all the way back to buy new supplys and this is a huge timesink. Maybe some of them will  change her gameplay, to overcome that issue and use not so many spells. But to think, that all players will follow that way, is only a dream.

 

Even then, when you now it, the system hurts you, when you want some tough fights. Its not really fun, to make some content with low lvl, when you must run so many times back. It could be create fun, to find ways to beat that content with your tiny lvl, but it cost you many time.

 

The system, as it is. Limit the player to play one gamestyle, instead of using different one. Yeah you can play the other ways, but they hurt you, with a great timesink.

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Resting should go away just make the partyb fresh after each combat and reduce the trash fight amount, need some decent fights.

 

i ve been hearing that lighthouse is difficult etc, then i just walked over this fight... losing interest rapidly

 

2 rest + loading screens time wasting + ironman = gg wp

 

i just iroll20s rest

Edited by MaxDamage

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Is it wrong of me to say I liked the resting mechanic and the camping supplies limitation?

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