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Karmashock

Wish there were an option to remove resting restrictions

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I rarely need to use camping supplies on POTD. If you find yourself needing to rest a lot more than your supplies allow, maybe lower the difficulty.

 

Unlimited resting will only make the game far too easy.

 

It is already in the game.  Pay attention, please.

 

Fact is, one can rest whenever one wishes simply by backtracking and trodding to an Inn, etc.  As has been patiently explained before, the only detriment is an out-of-game annoyance called "time sink".

 

I rarely need resting, but that is just me (and, apparently you, and probably some others).  That still does not change the mechanic.  Don't blame the victim for a poorly implemented mechanic.

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And as has been also patiently explained, that time sink constitutes a disincentive for resting, and also a not-so-subtle way to direct you to go look for easier stuff to do until you level and gear up enough to handle whatever it is that got you to run out of camping supplies to start with. Which is the intent.

 

I would not want hard, mechanical limits or costs to resting, and I thought the BG1/2 rest mechanic was completely broken: the possible random monsters that may show up were both tedious (i.e., same problem that you claim the limited supplies/trudging back mechanic has) and easily circumvented by savegame abuse.

 

The resting mechanic is just fine. 

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I would not want hard, mechanical limits or costs to resting, and I thought the BG1/2 rest mechanic was completely broken: the possible random monsters that may show up were both tedious (i.e., same problem that you claim the limited supplies/trudging back mechanic has) and easily circumvented by savegame abuse.

In fact the random monster system in some sense works against its purpose: assuming you're not going to just auto-reload (thus rendering the system pointless), it means that resting when you're in relatively good health is safe enough, whereas resting when you are near death a significant danger, thus making you want to rest before you actually need to!

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And as has been also patiently explained, that time sink constitutes a disincentive for resting, and also a not-so-subtle way to direct you to go look for easier stuff to do until you level and gear up enough to handle whatever it is that got you to run out of camping supplies to start with. Which is the intent.

 

I would not want hard, mechanical limits or costs to resting, and I thought the BG1/2 rest mechanic was completely broken: the possible random monsters that may show up were both tedious (i.e., same problem that you claim the limited supplies/trudging back mechanic has) and easily circumvented by savegame abuse.

 

The resting mechanic is just fine. 

Obviously it is not "just fine"!  Anytime that actual Players come to the boards to vent frustration at a particularly controversal mechanic means that it is not just fine for them!  I knew back then it was going to get some riled up because it just doesn't work - wanna rest?  Jump through hoops.  Waste RL time.

 

You really mean it is "just fine" for you.

 

I remember you from before *slow nod*

 

Having a simple "Unlimited rest" check in the main HUD would have solved a lot of problems and issues here.

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And as has been also patiently explained, that time sink constitutes a disincentive for resting, and also a not-so-subtle way to direct you to go look for easier stuff to do until you level and gear up enough to handle whatever it is that got you to run out of camping supplies to start with. Which is the intent.

 

I would not want hard, mechanical limits or costs to resting, and I thought the BG1/2 rest mechanic was completely broken: the possible random monsters that may show up were both tedious (i.e., same problem that you claim the limited supplies/trudging back mechanic has) and easily circumvented by savegame abuse.

 

The resting mechanic is just fine. 

Obviously it is not "just fine"!  Anytime that actual Players come to the boards to vent frustration at a particularly controversal mechanic means that it is not just fine for them!  I knew back then it was going to get some riled up because it just doesn't work - wanna rest?  Jump through hoops.  Waste RL time.

 

You really mean it is "just fine" for you.

 

I remember you from before *slow nod*

 

Having a simple "Unlimited rest" check in the main HUD would have solved a lot of problems and issues here.

 

 

That is true every time someone has problem with some game mechanic and wants developers change it to their liking, meaning that they are free to express their dislike towards those particular features, but also people that like or are fine as feature currently stand are free to express their opinions and then developers can choose what they do by using all the feedback instead of singular opinion from singular player.

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And as has been also patiently explained, that time sink constitutes a disincentive for resting, and also a not-so-subtle way to direct you to go look for easier stuff to do until you level and gear up enough to handle whatever it is that got you to run out of camping supplies to start with. Which is the intent.

 

I would not want hard, mechanical limits or costs to resting, and I thought the BG1/2 rest mechanic was completely broken: the possible random monsters that may show up were both tedious (i.e., same problem that you claim the limited supplies/trudging back mechanic has) and easily circumvented by savegame abuse.

 

The resting mechanic is just fine.

 

Obviously it is not "just fine"! Anytime that actual Players come to the boards to vent frustration at a particularly controversal mechanic means that it is not just fine for them! I knew back then it was going to get some riled up because it just doesn't work - wanna rest? Jump through hoops. Waste RL time.

 

You really mean it is "just fine" for you.

 

I remember you from before *slow nod*

 

Having a simple "Unlimited rest" check in the main HUD would have solved a lot of problems and issues here.

The resting mechanic is totally fine for maintaining game balance. You are of a select few if you need to rest a lot more than the camping supply limit allows. Either you are playing on too high a difficulty for your current understanding of the game, or you need to improve your gameplay so you don't need to rest as much. Or ofc you can just mod or cheat in unlimited resting.

 

The game doesn't need to be ruined just to satisfy a few players who cannot handle the limited rest mechanic. Play on easy or normal, if you still don't have enough supplies on those difficulties, the problem is you, not the game.

Edited by Mungri
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Just a little background before I jump in. I main a cipher, play on PotD, and I'm fine with the resting mechanics. I've cleared Temple of Ethos, various Gilded Vale quests, Raedric Hold, Caed Nua and I'm about to start with the ogres on Od Nua floor 3. I've also stopped playing for a while before I further invest any talents and spell selection due to the possibility of a huge balance overhaul from patch 1.05. 

 

As far as I can tell, the stronghold's rest mechanics is tedious due to the 3 loading screens. That's supposed to be addressed in 1.04, we'll see how it works out. Clearing Od Nua is a pain since running back to rest for more wizard/priest spells is a given, and I've yet to encounter any mid-point resting spots. However, I've yet to test out chain pulling with a wizard's (Aloth) Blast + Dangerous Implement + Kakaloth's Minor Blights. 

 

For Temple of Ethos, there exists at least 1 camp supply in it, making it possible for you to camp 3 times for that dungeon without returning to the inn. 

 

Raedric's Hold has 2 NPCs that can act as rest points for that 4 level dungeon, and there are various ways to avoid combat. If you're doing the quest "Lord of a Barren Land", there's your way of getting spells without tailing it back to town, and hence going through multiple load screens. You still need to load the basement and the top floor where the 2 NPCs are located though. 

 

I believe there is another NPC at Anslog's Pass (could be wrong here) which will offer the party rest if you complete the quest "A Mother's Plea". That would mean dealing with quite a number of mobs first though. You can leave the pack of guls there alone, and abuse the rest offered if you truly need them to complete the bestiary. 

 

Since mobs don't respawn in PoE, and there are NPCs who offer rest points, I don't see camp supplies being limited to 2 as a problem. Unless the quests in Defiance Bay and Twin Elms are significantly different in structure, I don't anticipate a critical problem with the current rest mechanics as well. Priests, druids and wizards all get per encounter spells at level 9, and ciphers get theirs from level 1. 

Edited by Blackthane
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While I wouldn't mind if people who want "unlimited resting" get a mod for that, because hey single player game, I also think that's not how the game was designed to be played (nor PnP for that matter, where DMs usually won't let you cheese it out).  You aren't supposed to spam all your per-rest abilities every fight.  The mechanic is supposed to make it annoying to play that way.  Anyway, doing that makes an already very easy game even easier.

 

I'm playing on Hard (max 2 camps) and find I almost never use the resting supplies I carry.  I often find more of them in dungeons and leave them behind because I'm already carrying my limit of two and haven't needed those to get through the dungeon...  and my PC is a wizard.  The intent is to use abilities on an as-needed basis to ensure you win without too much damage or risk - more strategic playing - rather than to unleash hell itself on every tiny little group of trash mobs.

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A better mechanic probably would be to get some resources back each time you end a fight.

 

Example

 

1. You restore Endurance up to half of your maximum but no more than you lost.

 

Endurance 100.

 

Fight 1: Lost 50. Full restoration. 100/100

Fight 2: Lost 60. Restored 50. 90/100

Fight 3: Lost 30. Restored 30. 90/100

Fight 5: Lost 88. Restored 50. 52/100

 

2. Two types of abilities - that restore to full after each fight and the ones that restore only half of their number.

 

3. Optional - grand abilities tied to quest counter that are restored only after completing a quest.

Edited by Zoolimar

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This is becoming annoying for me in the endless (and I do mean endless) path.  I need 5 hrs to crawl out from level 11, the schlep to the next town 22 hrs away to get enough supplies.  At least have someone in the keep selling enough of the supplies.

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I have to disagree with people who say wait until your level is higher, or lower the dificulty.  If you do that, then you just end up mindlessly hacking away with your weapons. The main fun of combat is managining positions and spells.

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Pft. There is an option to turn on/off Stash of unlimited holding. Why not make resting the same way?

 

In all honesty, I've been ok with having to use the Camping Supplies. But I did like how in the IE games you could rest, but there was always a chance you could be attacked by random enemies.

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I'm not a very good player, I don't min-max, and playing on Hard the only time I've ever needed to backtrack was in the Endless Paths, which are not designed to be done in one go anyway. 

 

I think resting is a poor mechanic overall, a relic of D&D that doesn't bring much to the table and makes little sense in dungeons. But if it needs to stay, then make it matter. Resting after every other fight in Baldur's Gate was incredibly dumb. PoE actually forces you to play around the mechanic, so it's not just a question of mashing R each time the dust settles.

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The whole game is balanced around limiting resting supplies, that is what makes hard mode hard. Per encounter abilities are made to be spammed and per rest abilities are to be held in strategic reserve.

 

For me it's not a matter difficulty, it's a matter of annoyingness and bad incentives making the game less fun.

 

Whenever I find camping supplies that I can't pick up (because I already carry two), the game is pretty much forcing me (or at least giving me a strong incentive) to rest right then and there, even if I normally wouldn't rest yet. Even if it would be downright stupid to rest there by role-playing standards. Because I have no idea how much supplies I will need in the next part of the game, or where I will find the next one.

 

At the beginning I tried to memorize places with camping supplies I didn't pick up yet, so I could come back for them later - but I tend to forget the locations, and in any case, such backtracking is not my idea of fun.

 

Wanna make sure hard mode is sufficiently hard? Do it by making more (or tougher) enemies spawn. 'Cause the resting supply carrying limit is a ****ty way to do it.

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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Just use a mod if it's so annoying.

 

Btw. resting functions more or less the same way in pen and paper rpg-s, there is no way the GM will let you rest after every encounter so you would need to manage your resources at least a bit.

In the IE games they used the same system only there was no GM(or other players) to tell you enough is enough. Random encounter=instant reload or minor annoyance. So you could abuse the system and rest every five feet if you wanted.

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The whole game is balanced around limiting resting supplies, that is what makes hard mode hard.  

 

No it's not. Hard mode is very easy and my smoothest run yet was without any of the badly designed spell-resting Classes wasting my time with pointless camping.

 

Infact, my Barbarian OR Cipher in the party could nearly solo it, without stealth cheesing or summon items (I can link you to the builds). And no worry about saving spells for later or resting. With those superior classes, you go all out every battle, like in IE games. The Camping System and limited supply mechanic is fine, but tying spells into it for 3 classes was badly approached and adds needless monotony. It gets better at level 9 (marginally), but that's most of the hours of the game.  I loaded up my BG2:EE Sorc this weekend and it was so much more fun. I can't imagine anyone who would say the opposite.

 

TLDR: Resting in the IE games was handled better in relation to spells.

Edited by Dongom

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There are only two acceptable states for resting:

 

1) Resting is unlimited and game assumes you refresh your resources for every major fight (BG2 is sort of like this).

2) Resting is actually limited and game assumes you go through several fights before refreshing your resources. Spending your rests too often leads to eventual failure and forces the player to play the dungeon again with better approach or go elsewhere to level up/learning to play better.

 

Currently PoE exists in a dead space between these, which is extremely annoying.

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I think they should have this option in for those who really despise the camping supplies mechanic.

 

Personally I love it. It adds a whole new strategic dimension to the game, trying to get through encounters whilst using as little per-rest abilities as possible, while taking as little health damage as possible, or spreading the damage out.

 

once I learned this it became way more fun.

 

on POTD with just story companions (no cipher) and party level 7-8 i've gone from endless Paths level 2 to level 13, only having to return ONE TIME to Caed Nua to rest and buy more camping supplies, you just need to use spells strategically rather than blow your load on the first xaurip you see.

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The resting resource is good because it adds strategy.

Its unrealistic to rest everywhere anytime.

Its unrealistic and tedius to rest after every fight.

 

If your finding it tedius to go back to an inn and rest its because you missed the whole point.  The point is that your NOT SUPPOSED to go BACK to the INN.

Your supposed to be complete the area/dungeon first.  If you cant complete the area/dungeon your either there too early and its too hard or you have room to improve your play, or finally you should play at a lower difficulty.

 

If it were up to me I would have made it harder. If you back track out of a dungeon without completing it because you ran out of rest supplies I would have made it so you would be attacked on your way out.  This way either your good enough to complete the dungeon or good enough to recognize early enough you have no chance and to come back later. This way adventuring would feel even riskier.

 

If you don't complete a dungeon I would make the enemies slowly respawn back.

 

I might even make it so that if u dont clear enough of the area around you to rest you have a higher chance of being attacked while resting.  Its too bad you cant barricade yourself in rooms before resting to make it "safer".  Survival stealth and lore could have helped with your chance of being attacked.  Mechanics to make you safer barricading yourself in.

Edited by johnmr531
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The resting resource is good because it adds strategy.

Its unrealistic to rest everywhere anytime.

Its unrealistic and tedius to rest after every fight.

 

It's unrealistic and tedious to be unable to carry more than 4 camping supplies ...

 

I just find limited rest coupled with the lack of other means to restore health and the emphasis on per rest abilities to be less a challenge than a constant low-level drain on my enjoyment of the game. Constantly avoiding ability use is like being on a weight-loss diet--not something most implement for pleasure. For me the fun in games of this sort comes from using interesting abilities, not from maximizing my use of autoattacks.

 

Also, I don't see anyone advocating rest everywhere anytime or resting after every fight. Some would just prefer more BG-like limitations on resting or means to avoid real-life tedium implemented to encourage us to play the way someone else thinks we ought to.

 

Finally, congratulations on the good health that makes you view resting after every fight as "unrealistic."  Pretty sure that if I were to try and fight through a dungeon, frequent rest stops would be necessary.

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 If you cant complete the area/dungeon your either there too early and its too hard or you have room to improve your play, or finally you should play at a lower difficulty.

 

 

I know many of the people thinking the Camp system kinda sucks have beat the game on PotD. The difficulty stuff is a tired argument, don't bother using it.

 

It's about our 2nd or third PoTD play through we begin to really see just how much of a chore this camp system is compared to BG2's system.  It's just not as good, simple as that.

Edited by Dongom

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