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Daemonjax

How to change experience per level requirement

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IE mod 4.14 now has a checkbox to increase exp requirements by 50%.

 

That's cool.

 

I'm almost level 4, and it certainly is a better pace than the default.

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There is an issue with overlevelling if you do lots of side quests etc.

 

IMO, the best way to 'fix' it is to provide an asymptotic limit to the experience per Act.

 

So say the developer thinks that you should be maximum level 5 when you complete Act 1. As characters approach level 5, the amount of experience the character receives per reward begins to reduce. Eventually, the reward drops to 0 as you close in on 9,999 XP. 

 

This way the dev team can work with a strong idea of core PC power at the start of each Act. Asymptotic limits are not exactly hard to implement from a dev perspective. Completionists can continue to do their thing - its not about gaming the system or overlevelling, its about seeing and doing everything, right?

 

Its also a bit of a prod to get on with the main quest if you are dawdling and not pursuing content for the sake of it :)

Edited by Hogfather

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There is an issue with overlevelling if you do lots of side quests etc.

 

IMO, the best way to 'fix' it is to provide an asymptotic limit to the experience per Act.

 

So say the developer thinks that you should be maximum level 5 when you complete Act 1. As characters approach level 5, the amount of experience the character receives per reward begins to reduce. Eventually, the reward drops to 0 as you close in on 9,999 XP. 

 

This way the dev team can work with a strong idea of core PC power at the start of each Act. Asymptotic limits are not exactly hard to implement from a dev perspective. Completionists can continue to do their thing - its not about gaming the system or overlevelling, its about seeing and doing everything, right?

 

Its also a bit of a prod to get on with the main quest if you are dawdling and not pursuing content for the sake of it :)

 

The increase in xp requirements per level seem to be doing the job. It's pretty clear that the main path content is balanced for parties at lower levels then you would hit in the base games.

 

In the base game, I can get to Caed Nua at level 4 with minimal side-quests. I barely hit level 3 with a similar number of side-quests using the xp requirement mod.

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There is an issue with overlevelling if you do lots of side quests etc.

 

IMO, the best way to 'fix' it is to provide an asymptotic limit to the experience per Act.

 

So say the developer thinks that you should be maximum level 5 when you complete Act 1. As characters approach level 5, the amount of experience the character receives per reward begins to reduce. Eventually, the reward drops to 0 as you close in on 9,999 XP. 

 

This way the dev team can work with a strong idea of core PC power at the start of each Act. Asymptotic limits are not exactly hard to implement from a dev perspective. Completionists can continue to do their thing - its not about gaming the system or overlevelling, its about seeing and doing everything, right?

 

Its also a bit of a prod to get on with the main quest if you are dawdling and not pursuing content for the sake of it :)

 

Yeah, that would be one way to do it.

 

I just think we should stop looking for the devs to fix these kinds of "problems", because it's not going to happen.

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I've been using the +50% aspect of IE mod now for my last three playthroughs, and it doesn't quite feel right.  I like how I'm no longer going to be level 12 right as I hit Act 3 as long as I'm doing every available quest, along with some Endless Path levels, but I don't like how I hit level 12 right as the game is ending.  It also makes classes that greatly benefit from levels 9 and 11 (which is the biggest boon, not level 12) comparatively weaker for a longer than needed period.  Honestly, 35% - 40% would be closer to the mark IMO.

Edited by Sanctuary

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I've been using the +50% aspect of IE mod now for my last three playthroughs, and it doesn't quite feel right.  I like how I'm no longer going to be level 12 right as I hit Act 3 as long as I'm doing every available quest, along with some Endless Path levels, but I don't like how I hit level 12 right as the game is ending.  It also makes classes that greatly benefit from levels 9 and 11 (which is the biggest boon, not level 12) comparatively weaker for a longer than needed period.  Honestly, 35% - 40% would be closer to the mark IMO

 

Well, the original pitch (iirc) was that players would not hit max level unless they did a lot of side content. Otherwise, they would be around level 9/10 if they stuck to the main patch which is why the end game encounters seem balanced for a party of that level.

 

Instead, we get lop-sided xp gain that completely contradicts the intended design goals.

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25% has been decent for me. But the bounties really do screw with any linear modification of XP, because their XP rewards are so out of whack with everything else.

 

With my 3-man party on 25%, doing almost everything but not doing bounties would mean struggling to reach level 12 - perhaps getting there only by Sun in Shadows. But you do bounties, and you suddenly find that the party is swimming in 80k, 90k XP totals.

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With +100% i've got 7th level by the start of 3rd act. Not a big deal imo, combat is mostly adequately difficult and thats the main reason why i bothered to adjust leveling xp gain in the first place. Unless it becomes impossible to pass any skill checks in 3rd act due to low level, +100% is fine by me. :)

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With +100% i've got 7th level by the start of 3rd act. Not a big deal imo, combat is mostly adequately difficult and thats the main reason why i bothered to adjust leveling xp gain in the first place. Unless it becomes impossible to pass any skill checks in 3rd act due to low level, +100% is fine by me. original.gif

 

How? I was level 10, halfway to level 11, and I missed at least two quests.

 

 

 

I've been using the +50% aspect of IE mod now for my last three playthroughs, and it doesn't quite feel right.  I like how I'm no longer going to be level 12 right as I hit Act 3 as long as I'm doing every available quest, along with some Endless Path levels, but I don't like how I hit level 12 right as the game is ending.  It also makes classes that greatly benefit from levels 9 and 11 (which is the biggest boon, not level 12) comparatively weaker for a longer than needed period.  Honestly, 35% - 40% would be closer to the mark IMO

 

Well, the original pitch (iirc) was that players would not hit max level unless they did a lot of side content. Otherwise, they would be around level 9/10 if they stuck to the main patch which is why the end game encounters seem balanced for a party of that level.

 

Instead, we get lop-sided xp gain that completely contradicts the intended design goals.

 

 

This. It's annoying as hell that they deviated so extremely from the stated design, especially when the whole thing is really easy to fix.

 

 

Nerfing XP across the board isn't enough, imo. What's needed is to drop the murderhobo experience and the lockpicking/trap experience, and then increase the necessary experience for levels exponentially, so that higher-level requirements gets bigger than the lower-level requirements.

 

My proposal was +3% per experience level.

 

Currently it looks like this:

Level 	1 	2 	3 	4 	5 	6 	7 	8 	9 	10 	11 	12
XP 	0 	1,000 	3,000 	6,000 	10,000 	15,000 	21,000 	28,000 	36,000 	45,000 	55,000 	66,000
My suggestion would result in:

Level 	1 	2 	3 	4 	5 	6 	7 	8 	9 	10 	11 	12
XP 	0 	1,030 	3,180 	6,540	11,200 	17,250 	24,780 	33,880 	44,640 	57,150 	71,500 	87,780
And:
  • No bestiary experience.
  • No experience for lockpicking instead of using keys.
  • No experience from disarming traps instead of evading/tripping.
  • No crazy 10-50% bonus for small parties.
  • Reduce the experience awarded for bounties by ~40%.
The result would be that instead of just shy of level 11 by the end of Act 2, you should be firmly in level 9, maybe just below, assuming you did ~7 levels of Endless Paths of Odd Nua. You would likely not reach level 12 until the very end of the game at best, which is as it should be.

 

For reference, currently, assuming that you do ~7 levels of Endless Paths, you end up with almost exactly 50 000 experience by the end of Act 2. Or, in other terms, halfway between level 10 and 11. My suggested changes should bump this down to approx. ~40 000 instead - so in the vicinity of "firmly level 8/just about level 9".

 

Which should actually result in a much better pacing overall.

 

 


t50aJUd.jpg

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How? I was level 10, halfway to level 11, and I missed at least two quests.

Using +100% xp per level. As in 100%+100% original.gif. Got about 50k xp, same as you it seems, but thats only level 7 with double xp requirements.

 

 

 

I've been using the +50% aspect of IE mod now for my last three playthroughs, and it doesn't quite feel right.  I like how I'm no longer going to be level 12 right as I hit Act 3 as long as I'm doing every available quest, along with some Endless Path levels, but I don't like how I hit level 12 right as the game is ending.  It also makes classes that greatly benefit from levels 9 and 11 (which is the biggest boon, not level 12) comparatively weaker for a longer than needed period.  Honestly, 35% - 40% would be closer to the mark IMO

 

Well, the original pitch (iirc) was that players would not hit max level unless they did a lot of side content. Otherwise, they would be around level 9/10 if they stuck to the main patch which is why the end game encounters seem balanced for a party of that level.

 

Instead, we get lop-sided xp gain that completely contradicts the intended design goals.

 

 

This. It's annoying as hell that they deviated so extremely from the stated design, especially when the whole thing is really easy to fix.

 

 

Nerfing XP across the board isn't enough, imo. What's needed is to drop the murderhobo experience and the lockpicking/trap experience, and then increase the necessary experience for levels exponentially, so that higher-level requirements gets bigger than the lower-level requirements.

 

My proposal was +3% per experience level.

 

Currently it looks like this:

Level 	1 	2 	3 	4 	5 	6 	7 	8 	9 	10 	11 	12
XP 	0 	1,000 	3,000 	6,000 	10,000 	15,000 	21,000 	28,000 	36,000 	45,000 	55,000 	66,000
My suggestion would result in:

Level 	1 	2 	3 	4 	5 	6 	7 	8 	9 	10 	11 	12
XP 	0 	1,030 	3,180 	6,540	11,200 	17,250 	24,780 	33,880 	44,640 	57,150 	71,500 	87,780
And:
  • No bestiary experience.
  • No experience for lockpicking instead of using keys.
  • No experience from disarming traps instead of evading/tripping.
  • No crazy 10-50% bonus for small parties.
  • Reduce the experience awarded for bounties by ~40%.
The result would be that instead of just shy of level 11 by the end of Act 2, you should be firmly in level 9, maybe just below, assuming you did ~7 levels of Endless Paths of Odd Nua. You would likely not reach level 12 until the very end of the game at best, which is as it should be.

 

For reference, currently, assuming that you do ~7 levels of Endless Paths, you end up with almost exactly 50 000 experience by the end of Act 2. Or, in other terms, halfway between level 10 and 11. My suggested changes should bump this down to approx. ~40 000 instead - so in the vicinity of "firmly level 8/just about level 9".

 

Which should actually result in a much better pacing overall.

 

 

Yea, removing that excessive xp gain would be a good idea.

There is also a problem with intended level for fights though, as It seems that like 95% fights in act 2 are for level 4-5 parties. :( Would have been much better if it was like 25% for level 4, 25% for level 5 etc, or something like that. So that you would be like "hm, this one is definetly too hard, gotta return later", like in act 1. Alas they probably won't change it now, cause too much work. :(

Edited by Bersercker

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Reposting this here from the beta 1.05 patch notes thread:

 

BAdler, on 05 May 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

 

Tanred, on 01 May 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

 

Reblanced XP rewards of some quests, particularly the bounty quests, to prevent parties from hitting max level before Twin Elms.

 

Can you give us more exact numbers?

 

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if you do all of the content before Twin Elms you should end up around level 8 or 9 instead of max level

 

 

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Playing through the beta to see if this is accurate. I'll probably increase the level requirements by 25% with the IE mod when possible, though; it just feels "right".

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Anyone know how the 50% rate holds up in 1.06? Is it too much after the nerf to bounty XP or does it still balance well?

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