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  1. 1. Which god did you side with, at the very end of the game?

    • Woedica/Skaen (feed the souls to Woedica)
      15
    • Rymrgand (destroy the souls)
      14
    • Galawain (feed the souls to the Dyrwoodans)
      107
    • Wael (scatter the souls)
      49
    • Berath (return the souls to the cycle)
      103
    • Hylia (return the souls to the hollowborn children)
      199


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I thought about choosing Hylea's option until I remembered those Wicht monsters in the woods and Eder's story about a neighbour's hollowborn daughter who ate her brother and later was chained and watered like an animal. Giving souls back to these damaged undeveloped creatures? No, thanks. Even Grieving Mother agrees that'd be a cruel thing to do not only to them, but to the parents as well.  I'd rather choose the natural cycle of Berath that restores order and grants many families healthy newborn twins to make up for lost children. Or at least Galawain's choice that strengthens the souls of Dyrwoodans.

Edited by Aramintai
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Chose Berath, since it seemed the least risky option.

 

The endings are interesting in that they have the bad side of the gods abusing that moment to gain more followers, by manipulating people into thinking that they did all of these miracles. So yeah, Hylea is in no way a "good" option. She doesn't really care, and she's pretty...insane if you get the ending where you break your promise to her. None of the endings are that beneficial in the long run for Eora. 

 

Though I guess that Wael's ending might be the best if you want no god to gain any actual power or influence - Wael just gains a new mystery, but the wording of the ending doesn't really imply that Wael gains new followers. Unless Wael somehow gains power from people speculating.

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I was kind of torn between Berath, Wael and Hylea 

I felt like my character thought that messing with souls was the absolute worst and I was eager to 'set things straight'. I went with Hylea though because my mind somehow picked out that poor woman in Ondra's Gift who lost her son because of her **** of a husband.

At least she got her little girl back. Worth it.  

 

Yeah, she was the one I thought about too...

 

I still went with Berath, because Grieving Mother dissuaded me from choosing Hylea. I see that a lot of people here went with Berath, because Grieving Mother didn't like Hylea's option, haha.

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I thought about choosing Hylea's option until I remembered those Wicht monsters in the woods and Eder's story about a neighbour's hollowborn daughter who ate her brother and later was chained and watered like an animal. Giving souls back to these damaged undeveloped creatures? No, thanks. Even Grieving Mother agrees that'd be a cruel thing to do not only to them, but to the parents as well.  I'd rather choose the natural cycle of Berath that restores order and grants many families healthy newborn twins to make up for lost children. Or at least Galawain's choice that strengthens the souls of Dyrwoodans.

 

Wichts aren't just any hollowborn: they're hollowborn who have been implanted with animal souls. Them receiving the soul initially meant for their body would, one hopes, work out a little better.


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I thought about choosing Hylea's option until I remembered those Wicht monsters in the woods and Eder's story about a neighbour's hollowborn daughter who ate her brother and later was chained and watered like an animal. Giving souls back to these damaged undeveloped creatures? No, thanks. Even Grieving Mother agrees that'd be a cruel thing to do not only to them, but to the parents as well. I'd rather choose the natural cycle of Berath that restores order and grants many families healthy newborn twins to make up for lost children. Or at least Galawain's choice that strengthens the souls of Dyrwoodans.

Wichts aren't just any hollowborn: they're hollowborn who have been implanted with animal souls. Them receiving the soul initially meant for their body would, one hopes, work out a little better.

But all these changes already happened, they developed into monsters shunned by their own families. What will happen when a kith soul is sent into these broken, half-kith bodies? Even assuming they won't receive souls since they already were implanted with them, sending their proper souls back into the Wheel, what happens to those who were never victims of the Salvation? Infants and yet unborn babies will probably be just fine, but what about older children?

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Hylia on one character because the whole quest had become about making sure to complete was Calisca could not by saving Aufra's child.

 

Heh.  I was going back and forth between Hylea and Berath, but went with Hylea in the end for Derrin's mom.

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Hylea.  While any hollowborn with perhaps 5+ years is beyond any hope, the hollowborns with days to few months or years of life are not yet "broken". 

Most will be beyond salvation,  a good number will have damages that only animancy can help a little, but you still have a group of hollowborns too young to be a broken vessel, those can be saved and  had their fate in the hands of the Watcher. 

Hylea never lied most would be beyond repair or help.  Only that those still alive deserved the chance. 

 

In the end, like people already said, no option is perfect, all of them have huge consequences and tons of grey ink.   


 

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Rymgands option is not really evil. I mean putting the misery out of souls and destroying them for no god to use and not leave them in limbo or deformed state back in the bodies of hollowborn seemed like a more practical choice.

 

Skaen is not purely evil either more like under a dictatorship and removing political enemies for its own power its not like skaen would exterminate everything just for fun. Just saying the question as was put forward many times throughout the game is if hording power and knowledge Just like a dragon hordes its gold makes you evil? 

That said its not inheriently good either, more chaotic.

 

Rymrgand: But wouldn't these destroyed souls be robbed of a chance to have a normal life again someday? It feels kinda harsh to me.

 

Skaen: Evil comes in great variety and Skaen is definitely not good, based on what his followers are doing and on his own words.

Hoarding power and knowledge isn't necessarily evil, it depends on how you've gotten this knowledge and power and how you're going to use it.

I doubt Skaen would use his power to entertain little kids at birthday parties. :)

The dragon, well, it depends on how it got all of that gold. If it was acquired by burning down little villages with farmers and children, then off with its evil head. If it did some really smart financial investments in its younger days then it has every right to protect its hoard.

 

No, Skaen would hold his power dear (and secret) until just the right moment...then use it in one flash to cripple and maim a much more powerful enemy who is directly responsible for Skaen's problems.

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Think about how many parents abandoned, killed or simply couldn't manage to keep alive their Hollowborn children. Just because they didn't have the money or the strength of will to deal with something like that. Think how emotionally and psychologically shattered they would be. Then you come in and send all the souls back and all the Hollowborn still around just wake up and become normal children again. Thats wonderful for them and their parents. But what about the parents from before? Its just about the worst things you could ever do, these people will never recover from that.

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Think about how many parents abandoned, killed or simply couldn't manage to keep alive their Hollowborn children. Just because they didn't have the money or the strength of will to deal with something like that. Think how emotionally and psychologically shattered they would be. Then you come in and send all the souls back and all the Hollowborn still around just wake up and become normal children again. Thats wonderful for them and their parents. But what about the parents from before? Its just about the worst things you could ever do, these people will never recover from that.

The ending addresses this, actually!  Those who decide to try again, Hylea often gives twins.  And I'll bet that many of those parents manage to convince themselves that their Hollowborn child's soul wound up being returned to them in their next child.

 

Yes, it's terrible for the parents whose Hollowborn children died, whether by their hand or otherwise.  Like it's been said, there's no perfect ending.

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What about the ones who aren't dead? What about the wichts running around, with animal souls puppeting Hollowborn children's bodies?

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What about the ones who aren't dead? What about the wichts running around, with animal souls puppeting Hollowborn children's bodies?

My guess would be that either they're still in the same boat, or the two souls are now sharing the bodies.  Unfortunately, I think the second possibility is more likely.

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Oh probably not, I just was hoping for some sort of "gain personal power" option, because I specifically avoiding swearing to any of the gods in case there was such an option.  Having some players get a bunch more soul power probably doesn't fit into the rest of the plot they have planned.

 

 

I did it the other way around, on my mad quest to power I made promises to ALL the available gods, confident that I could somehow take those souls for myself and hopefully become powerful enough to survive their revenge.

Of course, it turned out you cannot take them yourself. And the boons from the gods don't stack. And their revenge is not actually aimed at yourself in the end (unlike the boons, those events stack just fine).

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Hylea's is a bit disappointing. While it is the right thing to do, a lot of people killed their hollowborn offsprings already. This causes a lot of grief.

 

Galawain's is by far the best. It's pretty much just positive. Strength and hope for the weak to get back up and move on (this includes the parents of the hollowborn as well).

 

Wael's is mysterious, but so is Woedica's. A restored crown and that's it. Doesn't tell you anything. What did Woedica do?

 

Berath's is so wrong on so many levels. Those souls belong to the living for many years and he wants them prematurely returned. It's the worst possible choice in my book.

 

Rymrgand: almost the same as Berath. The better part about this is that *some* of those stolen souls are damaged, but I'd still take Galawain's solution. Feeding those souls to others is probably better than disintegrating them.

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Berath's is so wrong on so many levels. Those souls belong to the living for many years and he wants them prematurely returned. It's the worst possible choice in my book.

 

 

Why? Doesn't it just mean there'll be a spike of available souls in this one moment, which will then continue to be gradually reborn, probably resulting in an higher than normal pre-Legacy birth rate for the next few years? Why is this so terrible? Edited by Rosveen
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Berath's is so wrong on so many levels. Those souls belong to the living for many years and he wants them prematurely returned. It's the worst possible choice in my book.

How is Berath so wrong? Berath basically puts the souls back into the production line, meaning that everything's back to normal again. Future children will be born normally.

Berath just recycled the souls, putting them back into the natural cycle of things.

 

No, Skaen would hold his power dear (and secret) until just the right moment...then use it in one flash to cripple and maim a much more powerful enemy who is directly responsible for Skaen's problems.

That... doesn't make me feel better about Skaen. :p

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Those souls finally "won" their body and Berath wants to put them on the waiting list again. Who knows when they will get another body again?! Just look at how many creatures (mostly kith, and wilderers) have been killed either by your party, rioters, undead, self righteous idiots or by Thaos and co. All those creatures won't be fathers and mothers anymore. Think of how long those souls would have to wait with such a decrease in population and therefore lack of reproduction. This is wrong both economically (I consider souls and bodies goods to make it simple) and morally which leads me to the conclusion that Berath is total moron and can't even do his job right. Technically he should support Hylea, because that's how they will get back to the cycle properly.

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Those souls finally "won" their body and Berath wants to put them on the waiting list again. Who knows when they will get another body again?! Just look at how many creatures (mostly kith, and wilderers) have been killed either by your party, rioters, undead, self righteous idiots or by Thaos and co. All those creatures won't be fathers and mothers anymore. Think of how long those souls would have to wait with such a decrease in population and therefore lack of reproduction. This is wrong both economically (I consider souls and bodies goods to make it simple) and morally which leads me to the conclusion that Berath is total moron and can't even do his job right. Technically he should support Hylea, because that's how they will get back to the cycle properly.

 

Yeah, well, there're seven gods telling you that the souls, being severed from their bodies in such a brutal traumatic fashion, are damaged and unfit to make a return. So much so that six gods speculate the souls aren't even fit for the cycle. Whereas the Watcher can't rely on hindsight like we do here.

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I think you're getting into dangerous territory when you start deciding for someone else that the "damage" someone's suffered or will suffer means their life is not worth living, and they're better off not existing.

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Those souls finally "won" their body and Berath wants to put them on the waiting list again. Who knows when they will get another body again?! Just look at how many creatures (mostly kith, and wilderers) have been killed either by your party, rioters, undead, self righteous idiots or by Thaos and co. All those creatures won't be fathers and mothers anymore. Think of how long those souls would have to wait with such a decrease in population and therefore lack of reproduction. This is wrong both economically (I consider souls and bodies goods to make it simple) and morally which leads me to the conclusion that Berath is total moron and can't even do his job right. Technically he should support Hylea, because that's how they will get back to the cycle properly.

1. The events of Dyrwood are a small part of what's going on in the world. There are plenty of babies still being made elsewhere.

2. Even if they did have to wait a while, so what? Is their soul going to get bored, while it sits in the ether? There's no evidence that souls have any form of consciousness when they leave the world and return to the cycle.

3. Putting souls back into the bodies would be even worse. They would AT BEST be children with the minds of newborn infants and AT WORST be children with memories of being chained for years along with hundreds of other lost souls. Putting them into the cycle allows them to be born again as healthy, normal children with no memory of what happened.

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I think you're getting into dangerous territory when you start deciding for someone else that the "damage" someone's suffered or will suffer means their life is not worth living, and they're better off not existing.

These souls literally haven't even begun life - why would they want to go back to their hollowborn bodies when they could be born normal instead?

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I think you're getting into dangerous territory when you start deciding for someone else that the "damage" someone's suffered or will suffer means their life is not worth living, and they're better off not existing.

These souls literally haven't even begun life - why would they want to go back to their hollowborn bodies when they could be born normal instead?

 

I'm talking more about the idea that they're not fit for being returned to the cycle either.

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Those souls finally "won" their body and Berath wants to put them on the waiting list again. Who knows when they will get another body again?! Just look at how many creatures (mostly kith, and wilderers) have been killed either by your party, rioters, undead, self righteous idiots or by Thaos and co. All those creatures won't be fathers and mothers anymore. Think of how long those souls would have to wait with such a decrease in population and therefore lack of reproduction. This is wrong both economically (I consider souls and bodies goods to make it simple) and morally which leads me to the conclusion that Berath is total moron and can't even do his job right. Technically he should support Hylea, because that's how they will get back to the cycle properly.

1. The events of Dyrwood are a small part of what's going on in the world. There are plenty of babies still being made elsewhere.

2. Even if they did have to wait a while, so what? Is their soul going to get bored, while it sits in the ether? There's no evidence that souls have any form of consciousness when they leave the world and return to the cycle.

3. Putting souls back into the bodies would be even worse. They would AT BEST be children with the minds of newborn infants and AT WORST be children with memories of being chained for years along with hundreds of other lost souls. Putting them into the cycle allows them to be born again as healthy, normal children with no memory of what happened.

 

1. There's also plenty of war being made elsewhere. People are savages and have a low lifespan, even elves. Even if someone was immortal, that wouldn't mean they'd be invulnerable. Most die before reaching old age.

2. Your main char is a watcher and you are telling me souls do not have a consciousness? At the end you are literally talking to a soul imprisoned in a huge adra pillar and you are telling me they have no consciousness? Souls are being ordered to help you descend into a huge pit. Not only consciousness, but that looks to me that they even have some kind of ghostly body on top of that.

3. Far from worse, but I agree that this isn't the best solution either. Their trauma will be forever remembered whether you put them back where they belong or let them rot in the ether for maybe a few seconds, maybe an eternity until they find a new body. Those people in Noonfrost trying to get to Rymrgand's domain... you should hear them out for once. They are sick and tired of the cycle.

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I've done Skaen and Hylea's endings.

Skaen is far and away my favourite 'evil' concept in vidyagames for a long time (probably since Torment) and his attitude about the necessity of the illusion of divine justice to keep the upper classes in line really appeals to the medievalist in me.

Hylea's seemed like the nicest option. Well, I say nicest, but I kind of also think there's a lot of Old Testament justice in showing up the parents who abandoned their hollowborn kids and coming through for those who didn't. It has the value of being a lesson in a way that none of the other options really are.

Edited by Blovski

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