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it is entirely possible for a game to stand as "good" or even "great" based *entirely* on the strength of it's story.

No, it's entirely possible for Planescape: Torment to stand as good or great based entirely on its story.

 

Because Planescape: Torment is unique. PS:T is the ONE super-freakish exception to the rule because it managed to have a story that transcended gaming itself (it can compete with classic literature) No other RPG can (or ever has) succeeded on story alone.

 

 

There are others.  Not that it even matters when it comes to PoE since the gameplay is pretty damn good as well.  The story is just better.

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D:OS is indeed a great game, the mechanics are much more interesting when it comes to crafting / item stats. I feel that a combination of their mechanics (and YES, turn based combat) with Obsidians writing prowess and quest design could potentially create a black hole of RPG goodness that would consume the earth.

 

So it's probably a good thing that they're separate games, warts and all. 8/10 feels right for POE. 

Rather than whine about review scores, I'm gonna second this comment.

 

Larian handling the combat/game mechanics and Obsidian handling the plot/writing would create a god-tier game. Only problem, I think their sensibilities might be too different.

 

 

Yea I've thought of the same thing...tell OE to step aside and let Larian take care of the gameplay mechanics and combat...then OE can do the writing and story and characters...would probably be the best RPG ever but will likely never happen.

 

 

 

It's a game.

 

A game you play.

 

Gameplay is the most important thing.

 

I'm not going to shell out $44 for story.

 

The gameplay is awesome too though.

 

Also are you an avid CRPG fan?  I'm just curious, because I feel like saying that is just weird when talking about this genre.  Fallout 3 and Skyrim were heavily undermined by their poor writing and story.  So was Mass Effect 3 when the end hit.  So are the Dragon Age games.  I just don't get how a person can rate a game in a story-driven really highly when the story part falls flat.

 

 

The gameplay is far from awesome from many people's point of view...I view it as serviceable but nothing near good...they strayed too far from the IE games for me.

 

 

 

It's still rocking a 90 on metacritic, which as far as I'm aware is the bench people use for a very good game (hell for FO:NV Bethesda only wanted 85 to provide Obsidian Royalties, so even if it dips below it's now a bad thing).

Yep, and that doesn't surprise me. PoE IS the best game Obsidian's ever made. It deserves a better score than FO:NV, Mask of the Betrayer, Stick of Truth, etc.

 

 

MOTB is easily better than PoE IMO...it was a masterpiece and if we still count them as BiS then IWD is better for me as well.

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I don't have to.

Indeed, You're certainly free to just spout silly hot air retorts like "Implausable!" and "yer wrong!". Without actually putting up a rebuttal.

 

I, on the other hand, can point to 40 friggin years of Gaming history to back up my claim.

Edited by Stun
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Also, I rather liked IWD2's story, myself.

 

IWD2 had a story? And here I thought it was "Journey with the dead cat... also most annoying forest ever".

*shrug* And that's all I really recall from IWD2. IWD1? Even less. I do remember lots of stuff's from the PS:T, BG1 or BG2.

 

Actually, that's not entirely true, I still remember some of the backstories I wrote for my IWD(2) party members. More than the actual ingame story... huh...

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

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I don't have to.

Indeed, You're certainly free to just spout silly hot air retorts like "Implausable!" and "yer wrong!". Without actually putting up a rebuttal.

 

I, on the other hand, can point to 40 friggin years of Gaming history to back up my claim.

 

No, what you have is a faith-based fanatical opinion about PS:T. You can't ever prove that PS:T is a special and unique exception that will never be equaled, all you can do is point at some games in the past and continue to spout your "unique exception" nonsense.

 

I'm not a game developer. It's not my job to make the next PS:T to prove you wrong, nor am I under some requirement to engage you in debate until I change your mind. My plan is to laugh at you and continue to focus on story, character, and plot as something that is very much a demand of mine for good games.

Edited by Katarack21
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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

 

Yea PoE is the second game they've used this soul idea in....recycled ideas even thought its not exactly the same.

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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

 

I agree that the spirit eating mechanic was annoying- you could mod it out though.

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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

 

I agree that the spirit eating mechanic was annoying- you could mod it out though.

 

And eventually I will probably play it through like that. My problem was that the gameplay mechanic interfered with my ability to get at the story, and that frustrated me to no end.

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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

You're not the only one. Add me to the list. (well, ok, add me to the list of people who do not understand the gushing praise behind MoTB).

 

It was one of those games that had a "good" story, and not much else. (ie. my point) And it was another example of Obsidian-itis combat. I remember my first playthough of MoTB. I crafted a weapon that was so powerful that it killed any enemy it hit in one round. Normally this wouldn't be a huge deal, except that in MotB it was sometimes important to keep those enemies alive long enough so you could devour their souls, or eternal rest them. But....couldn't be done. Enemies died if you looked at them too hard. I found myself struggling the entire game to "hold back". And it didn't help that Gann, Safiya and Kaelen were tossing out Mass Drowns, Wails of the Banshee and Storms of vengeance as if they were magic missiles.

 

 

And even the story was stupidly flawed. That Giant Deus Ex Machina with the Wall of the Faithless.... yeah.

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D:OS is indeed a great game, the mechanics are much more interesting when it comes to crafting / item stats. I feel that a combination of their mechanics (and YES, turn based combat) with Obsidians writing prowess and quest design could potentially create a black hole of RPG goodness that would consume the earth.

 

So it's probably a good thing that they're separate games, warts and all. 8/10 feels right for POE. 

Rather than whine about review scores, I'm gonna second this comment.

 

Larian handling the combat/game mechanics and Obsidian handling the plot/writing would create a god-tier game. Only problem, I think their sensibilities might be too different.

 

 

Yea I've thought of the same thing...tell OE to step aside and let Larian take care of the gameplay mechanics and combat...then OE can do the writing and story and characters...would probably be the best RPG ever but will likely never happen.

 

 

 

It's a game.

 

A game you play.

 

Gameplay is the most important thing.

 

I'm not going to shell out $44 for story.

 

The gameplay is awesome too though.

 

Also are you an avid CRPG fan?  I'm just curious, because I feel like saying that is just weird when talking about this genre.  Fallout 3 and Skyrim were heavily undermined by their poor writing and story.  So was Mass Effect 3 when the end hit.  So are the Dragon Age games.  I just don't get how a person can rate a game in a story-driven really highly when the story part falls flat.

 

 

The gameplay is far from awesome from many people's point of view...I view it as serviceable but nothing near good...they strayed too far from the IE games for me.

 

 

 

It's still rocking a 90 on metacritic, which as far as I'm aware is the bench people use for a very good game (hell for FO:NV Bethesda only wanted 85 to provide Obsidian Royalties, so even if it dips below it's now a bad thing).

Yep, and that doesn't surprise me. PoE IS the best game Obsidian's ever made. It deserves a better score than FO:NV, Mask of the Betrayer, Stick of Truth, etc.

 

 

MOTB is easily better than PoE IMO...it was a masterpiece and if we still count them as BiS then IWD is better for me as well.

 

 

I guess to each their own.  I love the gameplay in PoE and find it easily on par with D:OS (just with a much better world and story).  And I strongly disliked the Neverwinter Night games.  I'll never understand why people liked those.

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Also, I rather liked IWD2's story, myself.

 

IWD2 had a story? And here I thought it was "Journey with the dead cat... also most annoying forest ever".

*shrug* And that's all I really recall from IWD2. IWD1? Even less. I do remember lots of stuff's from the PS:T, BG1 or BG2.

 

Actually, that's not entirely true, I still remember some of the backstories I wrote for my IWD(2) party members. More than the actual ingame story... huh...

 

 

They are by far my least favorite IE games, and yet they still had better stories than DA:I or D:OS in my opinion.

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You can't ever prove that PS:T is a special and unique exception that will never be equaled,

Oh, I'm totally fine with concluding what you wish me to conclude: that its story is nothing unique in the gaming world.

 

But then, that would leave PS:T without ANY redeeming qualities, wouldn't it. Unless of course you Applaud party-based RPGs where your companions have no weapon or armor choices, where your class options are limited to 3, where you can't pick your protagonist's race, or gender, or name. Where you can't equip your main toon with a missile weapon. Where you can't wear armor. Where "tactical combat" consists of clusterf*ck melee ('cuz there's only one archer in the game), And where dungeon design includes the Modron cube. Where your main character is immortal, where he gets a 7th level spell (resurrection) 3 times a day.... at level 1. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah. Where there's no swords. And where the bestiary consists of about 10 different types of monsters. Where you can heal yourself while the game is paused, thus rendering death in battle impossible.

Edited by Stun
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Just - wow. I can't believe the score Kevin van Ord gives PoE. 8/10, when he gave Dragon Age : Inquisition 9/10. AND Divinity Original Sin?!! Is he for real?

 

PoE is not perfect, but 8/10?

 

Something is definitely up here. Did the devs p*ss Van Ord off??

 

How can he say D:OS is a 'glimpse of the future' but PoE is treading the fine line between clone and homage? I lost interest in D:OS pretty quickly, the world is just too fairytale and garish, and everything is covered in either slime, fire or ice!!

 

I'm shocked by this review. Genuinely shocked.

To prevent further shocks learn to read multiple reviews from multiple sources from multiple authors.  Be thorough and read those past reviews of games you knew nothing about, but now do.

 

The Gamespot review was hardly unusual in any word written. Personally, I would (and have been) directly critical of curious and seemingly unnecessary design choices that I dislike and that reviewer even praised. Go figure.

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You can't ever prove that PS:T is a special and unique exception that will never be equaled,

Oh, I'm totally fine with concluding what you wish me to conclude: that its story is nothing unique in the gaming world.

 

But then, that would leave PS:T without ANY redeeming qualities, wouldn't it. Unless of course you Applaud party-based RPGs where your companions have no weapon or armor choices, where your class options are limited to 3, where you can't pick your protagonist's race, or gender, or name. Where you can't equip your main toon with a missile weapon. Where you can't wear armor. Where "tactical combat" consists of clusterf*ck melee ('cuz there's only one archer in the game), And where dungeon design includes the Modron cube. Where your main character is immortal, where he gets a 7th level spell (resurrection) 3 times a day.... at level 1. Did I miss anything. Oh yeah. Where there's no swords. And where the bestiary consists of about 10 different types of monsters.

 

 

I didn't say it was nothing unique. PS:T has one of the greatest stories ever told in *any* medium, let alone in video gaming. It will forever be one of my favorite experiences simply because of that. However, I don't think that this capability is somehow unique to PS:T.

 

There have been many, many games that I played and enjoyed mostly or entirely based on story, but none of those stories has quite been equal to the life tale of the Nameless One. More than just a truly enjoyable tale, that story is truly thought provoking in a philosophical sense. Torment asks you some very tough questions and tasks you to come up with answers on your own.

 

What can change the nature of a man? That's some truly deep stuff. Those kinds of philosophical, moral, and intellectual questions need to be asked--and they are being asked more and more in video games. We have mainstream popular video games based on questioning the philosophy of Ayn Rand. Gamers are maturing and the medium is maturing with them--thirty year old people want good stories, and strong characters, and powerful themes. It's not the only thing they want, but there is a strong market for games of this type.

 

I would put the world of PoE up against Planscape for mature themes and intelligent questioning any day. PoE doesn't go easy; it makes you question the nature of religion, and it asks you to think about how a persons past affects their future. PS:T had brighter, mor interesting characters--but PoE's characters are much more realistic and grounded (no floating skulls here). PoE as a whole is more grounded in real-world events; it deals with racism and the effects of colonialism and things like that. In PoE, the death of a god brings with it serious moral and philosophical questions; in PS it's just another day.

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Combat and loot is a very important part of the game imo, and D:OS does it better than Pillars I'm sorry to say (IMO). The combat in D:OS is highly tactical and plays fantastic. However Pillars has a better story and more interesting companions and lore so it evens out. But you cannot dismiss combat and loot.

 

You can dismiss the loot D:OS because it's generic random bad mmoish garbage. 

 

PoE's itemization doesn't hold a candle to BG2, but neither does any game. Still superior to D:OS though. 

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I see a lot of people dismissing D:OS' story, and I quite liked it myself. I might be alone for all I know, but I think D:OS has nothing to envy to PoE, and at certain parts I liked it more than PoE. Combat being one of them, definitely.

 

Also, D:OS didn't have any game-breaking bugs at launch, neither it sold itself as the new messiah. It simply became the new messiah with its own merits.

 

 

I'd give D:OS a 9 and PoE a 8.5 myself. Though I'd give DA:I a 7.5, it's pretty clear that guy sold himself to either the AAA of the game's hype, or the $$$ of EA's wallet.

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I'm probably the only person on the planet that actually didn't like MotB. Funnily enough, for me it was a gameplay issue--the special soul-mechanic in that game is something I truly despised.

 

 

You're not alone. Also the Hagspawn/Sandman pastiche was fricking annoying for some reason. A lot of recycling of themes happening in POE from MOTB. The souls thing and the anti-religion/anti-god thing going on.

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I see a lot of people dismissing D:OS' story, and I quite liked it myself. I might be alone for all I know, but I think D:OS has nothing to envy to PoE, and at certain parts I liked it more than PoE. Combat being one of them, definitely.

 

Also, D:OS didn't have any game-breaking bugs at launch, neither it sold itself as the new messiah. It simply became the new messiah with its own merits.

 

 

I'd give D:OS a 9 and PoE a 8.5 myself. Though I'd give DA:I a 7.5, it's pretty clear that guy sold himself to either the AAA of the game's hype, or the $$$ of EA's wallet.

 

1) You like really bland stories and really bland worlds apparently.  I hate to think what kinds of books you read.

 

2) The combat is really good and I can see why some people would prefer it.

 

3) Divinity Original Sin had tons of bugs on release.  I stopped playing it due the absurdly load time bug I was dealing with, until they finally fixed it.  And there were a lot more than that that other people ran into.  You lucked out on the bug front with that game clearly. 

 

4) As a counter point I would rate PoE a 9, D:OS an 8.5, and DA:I a 7.5 as well.  So we at least agree that PoE shouldn't be the lowest rated of the three.

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Reading the review, a lot of it rang true to me.

 

He gave Dragon Age Inquistion a better score with its laughable story and cartoonish world.  That's the point.  For that matter he gave Divinity: Original Sin a better score despite again having a vastly inferior story and vastly inferior world.  Dude has bad taste, or simply doesn't play these kinds of games for the story and setting which is just bizarre.

 

Well... on a technical level, both games are better than PoE.

 

DAI is better looking and that is all that is better (and stronghold but in PoE stronghold is not part of main quest). D:OS has a different art style but not nicer looking.. it is subjective.
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Well, since there have been over 200 replies to this post since yesterday I'll add my two duks: 10/10

 

I role-play Pillars of Eternity. I walk everywhere, I play on Trial of Iron so I'm immersed and careful about making decisions I'd really make in Eora.

 

I absolutely don't understand people who rush through the game like it's a race to the finish line. After I put in 20-30 hours or so of quality role-play in my last Trial of Iron play-through where my party wiped, I read on the forums and reviews that people "finished" the game in 30 hours, but without completing everything. I just don't get it. The game is put together by expert Dungeon Masters and it's as if you're in a den with them, artists, musicians, and magicians who transport you into another universe. It's as though people in that situation would say, "Right, here I am, let's finish this quick. Where's the finish line?" I would not want that kind of player at my pen and paper table; they'd be terribly boring, unimaginative, and irritating. Like I said, I give the game 10/10 and I'm having an unbelievably rewarding experience. *laughs* I'm only now in Defiance Bay after 34 hours and 34 minutes.

 

If Gamespot wants to, *laughs*, if Gamespot or anyone else wants to rate Pillars of Eternity anything less than what it deserves, 10/10, then I feel sorry for them not knowing how to play a role-playing game. I'm having the time of my life and reveling their creative jewel of a game. *laughs* I'll probably be playing this game until I die, it's that good.

 

http://www.gamerankings.com/pc/687020-pillars-of-eternity/index.html << 91% aggregate score

 

Kill Screen 04/07/15 Review ext_link.gif                 85 out of 100

Gameplanet 04/07/15 Review ext_link.gif               10 out of 10

GameSpot 04/07/15 Review ext_link.gif                   8 out of 10

USgamer 04/04/15 Review ext_link.gif                  4.5 out of 5

GamingTrend 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif            90 out of 100

ImpulseGamer 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif          4.3 out of 5

Digitally Downloaded 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif  5 out of 5

Digital Spy 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif                  5 out of 5

Softpedia 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif                   9 out of 10

Game Informer 04/02/15 Review ext_link.gif          9.25 out of 10

 

Obsidian, Pillars of Eternity team, you're amazing. Thank you.

Edited by cloudline
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