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Let's talk class balance....


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#21
MadDemiurg

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Top tier:

Druid, Wizard level 5+ (lol at meh tier some put him into), Priest, Cipher(yes, he cant nova like the other casters, but even one spell from him at lvl 11+ is instant win and his ranged weapon dps is also great, plus you can generate tons of focus very quickly if you know how), Barb (with bug fixes will go down a tier)

Good tier:

Fighter, Rouge, Chanter, Monk(again lol at bottom tier, properly built monk tanks are quite great, they're quite far from their supposed archetype though)

Meh tier:

Paladin, Ranger

 

That been said balance is not that bad in the game and even meh tier can be quite decent. There's no bad tier.


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#22
dunehunter

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Top tier:

Druid, Wizard level 5+ (lol at meh tier some put him into), Priest, Cipher(yes, he cant nova like the other casters, but even one spell from him at lvl 11+ is instant win and his ranged weapon dps is also great, plus you can generate tons of focus very quickly if you know how), Barb (with bug fixes will go down a tier)

Good tier:

Fighter, Rouge, Chanter, Monk(again lol at bottom tier, properly built monk tanks are quite great, they're quite far from their supposed archetype though)

Meh tier:

Paladin, Ranger

 

That been said balance is not that bad in the game and even meh tier can be quite decent. There's no bad tier.

 

This is also my class tier :)



#23
Luj1

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Continuation from race balance. And here let me piss people off by hyperbolizing the tier titles again:

 

God Tier

 

Cipher

Chanter

Rogue

 

Pro Tier

 

Fighter

Druid

Priest

 

Meh Tier

 

Barbarian

Wizard

Ranger

Monk

 

WTF are you doing Tier

 

Paladin

 

 

 

 

 

Seem about right?

 

 

Good post. We need a topic like this. By the way, can you explain to me why Rogues are God tier? I thought it'd be in Meh tier. Also, I thought Paladins would be in Pro tier.


Edited by Luj1, 06 April 2015 - 12:52 AM.


#24
Jojobobo

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I think Paladins, at least Wayfarers, are pretty decent - you can hit hard and tank whilst healing Endurance (making my attribute picks for them high Might, highish resolve, medium Int and Con). Give them Hold the Line, and they're pretty similar to a Fighter (arguably nicer in that they don't have to use a defensive mode which lowers their attack speed as their offenses are already sky high) - but with added healing (even without being a Wayfarer you can cleric with Lay on Hands) and reasonable modal party buffs. Plus, Bleak Walkers are cool

 

I just think they're a bit outclassed in all their uses by classes dedicated to each respective function (for tanking Fighters are better, for high DPS Barbarians and Ciphers are better, for healing Priests and possibly Chanters are better, and for modal buffs again Chanters are better) - however their versatility and the fact they can cover a lot of these niches in one package is pretty good. Are they the best at any one niche? No. Are they good at a great deal of them? Yes.

 

The Ranger from personal experience I've found to be pretty much garbage - you don't need to be a Ranger to use ranged weapons effectively so what's the point? Plus the animal companion is a complete waste - I took the bear thinking it would be tanky but even with Resilient Companion it still went down remarkably easily, producing holes in my line that let people get to my squishies which was not good at all. I guess you'd be best going for a high damage animal and using it to flank all the time, but better yet don't pick a Ranger. Having said that - maybe a party with 5 Rangers and a Fighter would be fun, you'd have so many critters running around and so much ranged damage that you'd imagine stuff would go down pretty easy.

 

I'm finding the Barbarian to be great, I'm playing on hard and started with a Con of 3 (so that I could maximise Might, Dex and Int and have decent Res as I also dropped Per to 3) and they're still surprisingly tanky - not as tanky as a Fighter but they also vastly out damage a Fighter so there you go. Carnage really is a great ability, the AoE with high Int is impressive and it dramatically helps with clearing a room (allowing you to focus on whatever heavy hitter they've got going on and kill the weaker annoyances at the same time). Overall I'd definitely encourage people to go for a Barbarian on their party for high DPS.



#25
Jarlhen

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Cipher and Chanter are a fair bit ahead of all the other classes. Rangers and paladins are a fair bit behind. Then everyone else kind of ends up in the middle. The big problem to me is that ranger and paladin are just two pointless classes outside of RP. Then it's weird that Cipher and Chanter are so damn good. Cipher especially. But I think most other classes are pretty solidly balanced. Monk certainly isn't bad, monks are very good actually. No, paladin and then ranger are the big issues to me.



#26
Exoduss

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Everyone is bashing rangers , my 4th party now ( most of them midgame or end of act1 on various difficulty setings incl PotD and Hard + ToI ) all of them had PC Ranger , every time i built differently and it seems that they arent the best if you relly on companion and ranger skills you get , But there are builds that wrecks **** for example going wood elf seems obvious choice for the ranger tho its more of a ranged rogue race , true ranger race is Island Aumua for the additional weapon sets , talent choice is quick switch always at level 2 ( get dissapointer , crossbow and war bow for your weapons rotation at lvl 2 when you start fight its pistol>crossbow>finish the fight reloading the bow ) , early game get 2 pistols+ arbalest for 4200, then talent to get 4th weapon set for even more quick switch wrecking , skills : vicious aim seems important shoot first 3 quick switches with vicious aim and then turn it off when u endup shooting the bow and reloading it for later talents gunner for when you get enough firearms to use them only , other 3 talent choices can warry but thease 3 are the key to succesfull ranger ( Quick Switch , 4th weapon set , gunner ) so is the island aumua race
P.S this requirers a lot of micro managing be aware of that

Edited by Exoduss, 06 April 2015 - 02:59 AM.


#27
Elerond

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top tier: All the classes with right build

lower tiers: All the classes with non optimized builds and roles.

There is some variance which classes work best with some other classes, but at end you can build every class to feel that they are OP in what they do. In solo runs some of the classes seem to just work better than others as they are easier to build be self reliant.


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#28
Exoduss

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top tier: All the classes with right build

lower tiers: All the classes with non optimized builds and roles.

There is some variance which classes work best with some other classes, but at end you can build every class to feel that they are OP in what they do. In solo runs some of the classes seem to just work better than others as they are easier to build be self reliant.

and then there is melee dps classes who gets glitched bumping into its teammates or running arround your team and then atacking random mob on its way as soon as  you release pause ... :D



#29
amiable

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Everyone is bashing rangers , 

I agree that the ranger dislike isn't founded, I am having my easiest playthrough with my ranger now, who is completely wrecking face in PoD.  Ironically I built this character in a different direction than most folks suggest, war-bow with the DR penetrating talents, marksman and vicious aim (wood elf obviously).  Key here is getting accuracy as high as possible because on PoD the mobs tend to be hard to hit.  Right now she has something like triple the total damage of the next highest player (Altoth who always has led every other playthrough due to blast).  



#30
MadDemiurg

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Ranger indeed can have nice accuracy (+20 with stalkers link and vicious aim) and sniper build is indeed quite good with stunning shot. He can do good damage, some light cc and even some aoe with bouncing arrows talent, However that's not as good as Cipher's 140% biting whip attacks under tactical meld for same +20 acc or Rogue's ranged deathblows, and I'm not even bringing wizards or druids going all out on their spells into this. So while being quite decent, ranger is kinda unfocused and doesn't quite match other ranged options. He's still pretty good, just not as good as the alternatives.



#31
Killyox

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Fighter is definitely top tier as well. Make DW Fighter with high Lore and have him use Shocking Grasp sCrolls, Fireballs, Moonwell and Paralyze scrolls. Combine this with high defense and nasty single target dmg from DW.

 

Monk is "Good" with AoE dmg upon Getting hit. I had decimated entire groups with this passive. Put on him good DR and throw him in mid of enemies. You will see 15-30 aoe dmg flying Rapidly.

 

I had 3 bears attack my monk and he did 15 hits from that Pain thing (simultaneously). So every bear got hit 15 times for 15-30.

 

Every class is decent. As for Chanters... I find them meh atm because I finish most fights before one gets to 3 charges to use his stuff so duh.


Edited by Killyox, 06 April 2015 - 05:21 AM.


#32
Killyox

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top tier: All the classes with right build

lower tiers: All the classes with non optimized builds and roles.

There is some variance which classes work best with some other classes, but at end you can build every class to feel that they are OP in what they do. In solo runs some of the classes seem to just work better than others as they are easier to build be self reliant.

Agreed. 



#33
eubatham

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Fighter, Priest and Cipher are definitely the most powerful classes. These carry a group and if you don't use them, you'll be making it a lot harder on yourself. 

 

After that, I'd say you have classes like the Rogue, Ranger, Wizard (although later on they become really good), Chanter and Druid. These classes are pretty alright and nice to have, but won't have a large impact if you swap them out between each other. They all have really good damage, support or a combination of both.

 

Following those are the Barbarian and Monk. You'll be putting more strain on yourself if you want to play these classes (far more micromanaging), but it's certainly doable. Still, it's far easier to just use any of the above classes.

 

On the last spot I'd place the Paladin, sadly just about any class can replace the Paladin and do it better. The higher level they get, the more 'meh' they become. They are basically a weak fighter combined with an extremely weak priest. The most common brought up defense when it comes to Paladins is, "I managed to finish the game with a Paladin in my group". That's not really a gauge to measure how good a class is though, especially not when people are finishing the game with just one or two party members. There is no good reason to bring a Paladin to a group, apart from simply wanting a Paladin in your group.

 

To quote myself on Paladins;

 

Paladins are lackluster. They lack any and all focus, I say this as someone that finished the game on Hard difficulty with a PC that was a Paladin.

 

They're worthless tanks compared to fighters, but so is anyone else really. Fighters have far more defenses, more engagement and better endurance recovery (in more than one way). A Paladin is only on equal footing when it comes to an initial deflection bonus and is far more of use to assist other tanks. This is only reinforced due to the fact that some of the powerful defensive abilities a Paladin possesses only affect his allies and not the Paladin himself.

 

Damage wise they're alright for short fights and when you can rest occasionally (to regain Sworn Enemy), but they quickly run out of gas during long fights. Where other classes gain more tricks in their bags to use for long fights, we're still stuck with the initial 2/encounter Flames of Devotion at level 12. This, despite being able to heavily specialize and improve this ability along the way.

 

Then there's support. In this category Paladins also tend to fall short. The range of aura's is tiny and requires a hefty investment in intellect to even properly cover allies in melee. Boots of Zealous command are almost mandatory for any Paladin to take, simply to make aura's worthwhile for anyone but the Paladin and the people almost literally hugging him. The other supportive abilities that Paladins are able to obtain are decent, especially the ones later on, but a Priest basically brings the same utility and much, much more.

 

Once you've tried out the other classes, the Paladin just feels so lackluster. Another way to gauge their shortcomings is that during my playthrough(s), I never felt "next time I level up my Paladin, it'll make a big difference for the group" while with other classes like fighters, ciphers, wizard (later on) and priests I felt the opposite. They're alright offtanks, but the same can be said about most classes when you stick them in plate armor along with a bit of perception or resolve.

 

At the moment I would say that the only real reason to get a Paladin in your party, is if you simply want a Paladin in your party.

 

Edited by eubatham, 06 April 2015 - 06:37 AM.

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#34
MadDemiurg

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Fighter is just the best damage sponge. He's good, but I won't say top. You can replace him with a lot of other options that won't work as well, but will do the job for the most part, plus if you go heavy on the nuking you may not need a tank at all (don't say it's optimal). He doesn't have any "I win" buttons though, and can't win the fights on his own usually. That makes him just "good" but not "top" in my book.



#35
Laz0r

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Fighter is just the best damage sponge. He's good, but I won't say top. You can replace him with a lot of other options that won't work as well, but will do the job for the most part, plus if you go heavy on the nuking you may not need a tank at all (don't say it's optimal). He doesn't have any "I win" buttons though, and can't win the fights on his own usually. That makes him just "good" but not "top" in my book.

I think when talking about balance it's important to consider what difficulty is being played at, in my case I'm referring to PotD. When a lot of the guys here are saying stuff like "melee dps sucks" and whatnot, they're referring to the fact if you place a melee dps in melee range, and they pull agro for 2 seconds, they're going to get roasted. A lot of the other classes are just relative, when your making ranks, you have to consider this too. For instance, can a monk tank? Yes, it can, but not as well as a fighter can. So for that role it gets shoved in a tier below in my mind.



#36
MadDemiurg

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I've also played PotD and doing a PotD solo run atm. You need to tank only for long enough to wipe out the enemies, so it all depends on your setup. Fighter is indeed the most survivable tank (and the least micro intensive one). However monk is a much better CC tank with force of anguish and Barb retaliation tank will often kill things attacking him before going down himself. And as I said, you can make setups that work without a real tank too. If you need a dedicated tank, yes, fighter is the best, but unlike classes that I put at the top he usually won't turn the battle by himself.



#37
Killyox

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I wish to point out that Rogue can solo POTD. So definitely a top class too.

 

 

I've also played PotD and doing a PotD solo run atm. You need to tank only for long enough to wipe out the enemies, so it all depends on your setup. Fighter is indeed the most survivable tank (and the least micro intensive one). However monk is a much better CC tank with force of anguish and Barb retaliation tank will often kill things attacking him before going down himself. And as I said, you can make setups that work without a real tank too. If you need a dedicated tank, yes, fighter is the best, but unlike classes that I put at the top he usually won't turn the battle by himself.

 
Give fighter LORE and scrolls like paralyze, fan of flames, shocking grasp. I guarentee he will wipe stuff on his own a lot of times.

Edited by Killyox, 06 April 2015 - 07:08 AM.


#38
MadDemiurg

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A lot of classes can solo POTD, it only varies how tedious it is. In case of rogue, imo very tedious. The only thing rogues have going for them is exploity combat reset via shadowing beyond. Apart from it, sneak attack doesn't work very well solo and the rest of class features are either not super impressive of work even worse solo.

 

Fighter with scrolls can do some damage, but a lot of better spells are not available as scrolls plus scrolls don't grow on trees. And any class can use scrolls/foods/potions to great effect. Not enough to make him top tier imo.


Edited by MadDemiurg, 06 April 2015 - 07:20 AM.


#39
MadDemiurg

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Wrong thread. 


Edited by MadDemiurg, 06 April 2015 - 07:24 AM.


#40
Phoynix

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Rangers dont need much to fix them.. the problem is they dont feel like masters of range... the rogue does...

How to fix Rangers?

 

My idea

Default passive ability

Measured Placement

Affinity and experiance with ranged weapons gives Rangers an almost supernatural ability to get the best out of a ranged weapon, and to do so from what appear to be the worst possible s h o t s.

PS-why is the forums censoring the word S h o t s.

 

Effect

When a ranged weapon rolls lowest possible damage it automaticly becomes a Max roll for the ranger.

 

Effects?

Pistol 22-30

Every other class has a 1/9 chance of rolling 30 damage.

Ranger has a 2/9 chance of rolling 30 damage.


Edited by Phoynix, 06 April 2015 - 08:18 AM.





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