Would you consider opening a public bug tracker for Pillars of Eternity?

[shmerl]

While reporting issuess on the forum is done by some studios, it's not really as effective and useful as using a proper bug tracker. Especially for tracking progress and finding workarounds.

 

Some time ago, community opened an unofficial bug tracker for the Linux version of the Witcher 2, and developers found it to be very useful, so not only they started participating in it, they even took it over as an official one:

 

https://github.com/virtual-programming/witcher2-linux/issues

https://github.com/virtual-programming/witcher2-linux

 

Would you consider doing something similar for the Pillars of Eternity? It can help both you and the community, and it's a more effective two way street.

[shmerl]

No interest I guess?

[kmbogd]

Sounds as a great idea. It will also provide a good message to the community.

[Daemonjax]

It is a good idea.

[Plazmid]

That sounds like a great idea! I'm sure Obsidian would appreciate it. 

 

There are a lot of issues right now, too many for Forum to properly manage effectively.

 

Any suggestions as to which one (bug tracker) to use? Not to mention that it needs to live somewhere.

[shmerl]

I think Github is a good place. Pretty simple interface for most even non technical folks to report issues easily. If you have other ideas - feel free to propose. If Obsidian won't react on it soon, we can make an unofficial one, no biggie.

Edited April 6, 2015 by shmerl

[shmerl]

OK, I simply created 3 unofficial community repositories for now. Feel free to post your bugs and workarounds there:

 

Linux: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-Linux-bugtracker

OS X: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-OS-X-bugtracker/

Windows: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-Windows-bugtracker

 

I'll update them with bug posting guidelines shortly.

[shmerl]

Just a reminder, since apparently many missed it. If you want to use a community bug tracker for collecting Pillars of Eternity bugs, see the post above.

[ushas]

While reporting issuess on the forum is done by some studios, it's not really as effective and useful as using a proper bug tracker. Especially for tracking progress and finding workarounds.

This. Definitely. Part of the issue is that even technical part of the forum is usually full of noise, hard to separate useful information...

 

On that witcher 2 repository I like that they can pull this:):

Note that complaining will not be tolerated and users will have themselves removed and banned from the repository if unconstructive comments are made. This is a place to provide technical feedback and help the developers. It is not a place to harass the developers or regress to a forum of complaints.

 

OK, I simply created 3 unofficial community repositories for now. Feel free to post your bugs and workarounds there:

 

Linux: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-Linux-bugtracker

OS X: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-OS-X-bugtracker/

Windows: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-Windows-bugtracker

 

I'll update them with bug posting guidelines shortly.

 

Thanks a lot. I take it isn't bugzilla. But probably almost anything is better than the forum format.

 

Can I ask why you made three separate repositories, why not make just "windows", "OS-X", "Linux" labels? I don't have any user experience with github issue tracker, so sorry if asking obviouse. As the game is simultaneously made for all three platforms, I guess the majority of bugs is shared. Of course there are still many differencies. There are also 32bit specific issues (not sure whether windows only), graphical glitches shared between Mac and Linux (eg. infamous capes;)), etc. So for example, when the windows user will want to check if his bug was already reported or if there is any workaround etc., will the search function supply results from both other repositories too?  (otherwise almost nobody is going to check linux repository)

 

If GOG decides to provide released linux patches, when finding some free time I will try to bump your thread again and supply some bug reports to support this notion...

[shmerl]

 

Can I ask why you made three separate repositories, why not make just "windows", "OS-X", "Linux" labels? I don't have any user experience with github issue tracker, so sorry if asking obviouse. As the game is simultaneously made for all three platforms, I guess the majority of bugs is shared. Of course there are still many differencies. There are also 32bit specific issues (not sure whether windows only), graphical glitches shared between Mac and Linux (eg. infamous capes;)), etc. So for example, when the windows user will want to check if his bug was already reported or if there is any workaround etc., will the search function supply results from both other repositories too?  (otherwise almost nobody is going to check linux repository)

 

I was actually thinking whether to make one repository or to split them. May be you are right, and they can be all reported in one. On the other hand a lot of issues are system specific. Each approach has some pluses and minuses. But I agree, that if bugs are shared, it might get somewhat confusing. I'm not against merging them all into one.

 

And GOG just released an update to the Linux version by the way which includes all the latest patches.

Edited April 7, 2015 by shmerl

[shmerl]

After pondering it a bit more, I merged all the repositories into one: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-bugtracker

[ushas]

And GOG just released an update to the Linux version by the way which includes all the latest patches.

Ha. Thanks for the info:)

 

After pondering it a bit more, I merged all the repositories into one: https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-bugtracker

I hope I didn't contribute to making it more chaotic by posting an uninformed question. You are definitely right about system specific issues. Next to the game version, it's important to specify platform as well. Now when you merged it, I'm wondering about those Labels, whether you can create new ones for each system, or so...

[shmerl]

I created labels (Linux, OS X and Windows). But they can be assigned only by contributors, and not by all submitters. So I guess I'll have to review and assign them for all bug reports for now:

 

https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-bugtracker/labels

Edited April 7, 2015 by shmerl

[durbal]

Perfect.  A great place to document the many irksome bugs that remain so developers can squash them (and a lot will likely be easy fixes, too).

[xrogaan]

Ultimately, if you don't bring in the devs I doubt those trackers will even matters.

 

I'm pretty sure that they have private bugtrackers, and the tickets they open there link to the reports from this forum.

[shmerl]

Ultimately, if you don't bring in the devs I doubt those trackers will even matters.

 

I'm pretty sure that they have private bugtrackers, and the tickets they open there link to the reports from this forum.

 

Developers are invited to participate naturally, and I can transfer those repositories to them as soon as they'll ask for it. Of course they have private bug trackers. They are useless to the community however (a simple example - you won't be able to post any workaround there, and you won't be able to search for one either), since they don't allow two way street communication.

 

More projects should have public bug trackers for the mutual benefit of developers and community. Witcher 2 Linux release proved it quite well.

 

As for now, you can actually post some bugs there

Edited April 7, 2015 by shmerl

[Xodetaetl]

I strongly support a public bugtracker and I'd like to see Obsidian people respond here, I won't post bugs on github until I know they are present there.

[Amodef]

I strongly support a public bugtracker and I'd like to see Obsidian people respond here, I won't post bugs on github until I know they are present there.

 

Exactly the same for me!

[shmerl]

It's a catch 22. If you post bugs (and quality ones, not some rants), developers are more likely to pay attention. So my suggestion is, don't wait for them. Otherwise it might never get enough traction. That's exactly how it worked for the Witcher 2 bug tracker.

Edited April 8, 2015 by shmerl

[Amodef]

You're certainly right, but it's a bit odd that players have to convince developers of the importance of a bug tracker...

 

They certainly already have an internal bug tracking system, but if you ask players to report / track bugs, I think that you have to do it seriously. We are all (gladly) giving some of our time to help improve a game we have already paid for... The less they could do is help us do it well, with the proper tools, and not let us lose our time here (it's nearly impossible to avoid duplicate reports, you can't see bug status / validation, etc.).

 

I think that a move from the Obsidian team is really needed here.

[shmerl]

So for now, you can do it like this. Create a bug on the bug tracker, and make a thread here on the forum with a link to it (for technical details) and provide just a brief description in your post here. That would naturally lead developers there for details, and if they'll think it's useful, they'll participate there as well.

 

Example: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/76536-voice-volume-very-low-during-character-creation/

Edited April 8, 2015 by shmerl

[shmerl]

You're certainly right, but it's a bit odd that players have to convince developers of the importance of a bug tracker...

 

They certainly already have an internal bug tracking system, but if you ask players to report / track bugs, I think that you have to do it seriously. We are all (gladly) giving some of our time to help improve a game we have already paid for... The less they could do is help us do it well, with the proper tools, and not let us lose our time here (it's nearly impossible to avoid duplicate reports, you can't see bug status / validation, etc.).

 

I think that a move from the Obsidian team is really needed here.

 

See my post above. You can already start using it in combination with the forum, and it would naturally engage developers in the process.

Edited April 8, 2015 by shmerl

[shmerl]

Anyway, for those who might be new to the thread or got confused (since I can't edit previous posts), the bug tracker is here:

https://github.com/PoE-unofficial/Pillars-of-Eternity-bugtracker

Edited April 8, 2015 by shmerl

[dscharrer]

Definitely needed - a forum is a terrible way to track bugs, especially for a game as large as this.

 

Valve has also been using GitHub as a bug tracker for all their Linux ports: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/

Edited April 8, 2015 by dscharrer

[shmerl]

@dscharrer: Thanks for adding some bugs there

[ushas]

See my post above. You can already start using it in combination with the forum, and it would naturally engage developers in the process.

 

Yeah. The combination of both is good way to go now for bug visibility... However, I wouldn't advice to purposely withhold information when posting on forum. It seems to me easier and constructive simply post the same text...

Edited April 8, 2015 by ushas