[balancing] Cipher/Chanter too strong?

[RedSocialKnight]

This is probably too big a change to make post-release, but what about simply having ciphers start combat with zero focus?

 

Too me it makes more sense with lore anyway, since they're supposed to depend on draining soul energy to fuel their powers -- why would they walk around fully charged?

[RedSocialKnight]

I love people who seldom think before they post.

I prefer people who are rude to strangers.

Edited April 8, 2015 by RedSocialKnight

[Eurhetemec]

There is a lot of balancing to be done. In about 1 year I think it will be better.

 

 

As it is now:

 

- barbarians are glass cannons. I know their high AoE DPS is intended, but no way they should drop as fast as my mage.

- Ciphers have some really OP abilities (more than some other classes anyway) and they refresh

- 6 Chanters can faceroll hard mode with expert and ToI. After every chant sequence your party multiplies. You start with skeletons, then phantoms (which hit like a truck and are hard to hit), and eventually drakes. So basically you have a multiplying Borg army

- Moon Godlike's are the best godlikes by far, Nature probably being the worst. Try 6 Moon Barbarians and go AFK during a fight

- haven't played other classes so I don't know about them

 

 

The way it is now, there is many gimmicks in PoE which really makes me think I'm playing a MMO..... you have a tank, a dps, a healer, etc etc.

 

Exactly the opposite was promised on Kickstarter - no standard RPG/MMO trinity , and also to be able to make a party free of restrictions.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: On the other hand however, I love that Intelligence is now possible for Barbarians (increases AoE/Duration), while Might makes sense on Wizards (more spell damage ) This was promised and is fulfilled , so it's good... but there is still much, much work to be done... (Exactly why I don't understand WHY they're indulging people on twitter about meaningless stuff instead of working on balancing which is so obviously needed )

 

Bolded bits contradict each other directly.

[Schakar]

Just noticed a decent difference between normal and hard. And between early game and end game.

 

Normal: Chanters are useless as enemys die before chanter get enaugh stacks to cast something (totaly UNDERpowert)

Hard: fights last long enaugh to get some summons out from chanters (still not overpowered good but finaly have some use)

 

Early game normal: Cipher feel insane as they have no problem to accumulate resources.

Ende game normal: (Blunderbuss) Cipher miss ALOT and so get problems to accumulate resources.

 

My biggest disapointment with Ciphers till now was the endfight where my Cipher couldn't hit anything and never build up his resource .

 

So my impression:

- Chanter are decent balanced and grow with the difficulty settings.

- Cipher NEED some accuracy on items / while created / skilled .

- Both don't need major patch-changes. Only small tweeks (a 1 or 2 chant ability for Chanter, less starting resource for Cipher (Blunderbust "fix"? to count as one hit)).

[Shinae]

To above. I really like picking those accuracy talents. I feel like ruffian weapon talent is like mandatory and helps a lot. Also having paladin with accuracy aura is nice bonus as well. I rarely miss.

 

Chanter I've been thinking about replacing. My Cipher is such a power house that fights end too soon even on hard that I rarely hit 3-4 chants, when I do hit enough chants summons are not needed anyore since I only need to kill 1-2 remaining enemies. Maybe I try rogue or ranger instead. Maybe they offer more utility. Or druid.

[anameforobsidian]

Blunderbuss Cipher is a power house. One shot and you can cast a lot of new stuff. It's actually more balanced with other weapons. Focus gain with Blunderbuss is just insane.

 

I like the abilities tho. Both damage and CC. It's fun to play. I like Mind Blades vs small stuff as it clears it quite fast. CC on the other hand is valuable to keep lots of enemies in one place, so your wizard AoE gets the max value. Cipher works the best as support and CC character.

 

Blunderbuss ciphers are great for most fights.  They have a distinct disadvantage if their target has high dr.  I was getting no focus at all with the ardra dragon despite having a superb leadspitter, ruffian focus, etc.

[gkathellar]

 

Blunderbuss Cipher is a power house. One shot and you can cast a lot of new stuff. It's actually more balanced with other weapons. Focus gain with Blunderbuss is just insane.

 

I like the abilities tho. Both damage and CC. It's fun to play. I like Mind Blades vs small stuff as it clears it quite fast. CC on the other hand is valuable to keep lots of enemies in one place, so your wizard AoE gets the max value. Cipher works the best as support and CC character.

 

Blunderbuss ciphers are great for most fights.  They have a distinct disadvantage if their target has high dr.  I was getting no focus at all with the ardra dragon despite having a superb leadspitter, ruffian focus, etc.

 

 

Two ways around this.

 

a) Switch to pistols for high DR targets, since that's covered under Ruffian.

b) Envenomed Strike applies multiple times for multiple hits, and it's Raw damage. This can make up the difference.

[Rumpelstilskin]

Well, ciphers and chanters are Obsidian's inventions, so of course the wanted to OP them a bit to encourage people to play them. Also it looks like the main story almost assumes that the PC a cipher?

Can't attest personally for chanters though, as I don't have in my party (since they seemed quite boring - too much emphasis on passive skills). 

[Mebrilia]

balancing is necessary in MMO but boring in single player crpgs... Bg2 was balanced? hell no but still a great title... Planescape torment was balanced? Hell no again.... Morrowind was balanced? Again no

[Sabin Stargem]

I prefer character classes to be powerful, rather than weak.  Hopefully Obsidian would feel the same, and largely focus on improving the weaker classes.

[dododad]

While Chanter is a beast early on, he certainly isn't op later in the game. He even turns into somewhat mediocre to low tier character. His lvl. 3 chants duration is huge, making them unsuitable for filling up his spell ration, and his summoning spells also loose usefulness with the number of summoning figurines available. They are weaker, but they can be cast at the beginning of the battle, while Chanters spells take time to fill, and often come too late. He still has some nice boons, but next to high level Priests huge array of options, they are simply not needed.

 

I had Kana with me for majority of the game, but in act 3 and lower levels of the dungeon, I noticed that he stopped contributing to battles, and I switched him out completely.

 

Still, there's a really nice trick involving Priests Withdraw and him. You can use him as a decoy to start the battle and throw Decoy on him with the rest of the party hidden. His spellpool will fill up even as he is out of battle.

[Matt516]

Well, ciphers and chanters are Obsidian's inventions, so of course the wanted to OP them a bit to encourage people to play them. Also it looks like the main story almost assumes that the PC a cipher?

Can't attest personally for chanters though, as I don't have in my party (since they seemed quite boring - too much emphasis on passive skills).

Watcher =/= Cipher. It's like... A Medium vs Prof X. One can talk to and see souls (often dead ones), while the other manipulates living minds to bend them to their will. Similar, but distinct within the lore.

[Rumpelstilskin]

 

Well, ciphers and chanters are Obsidian's inventions, so of course the wanted to OP them a bit to encourage people to play them. Also it looks like the main story almost assumes that the PC a cipher?

Can't attest personally for chanters though, as I don't have in my party (since they seemed quite boring - too much emphasis on passive skills).

Watcher =/= Cipher. It's like... A Medium vs Prof X. One can talk to and see souls (often dead ones), while the other manipulates living minds to bend them to their will. Similar, but distinct within the lore.

 

Well I didn't mean it as in completely the same, just felt very cipher-ish.