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Current status of Monks

monk balance

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#21
Longknife

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Monks are good if you enjoy monkeying around.

 

 



#22
portedgoblin

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This is how playing a monk with Force of Anguish looks.

https://www.youtube....QgHg4eTk#t=1m57


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#23
PrimeJunta

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Haha cool. Gonna have to give the monk another try.

 

Won't be until the end of the month as I'm on the road and my laptop isn't beefy enough to run it... :sigh:



#24
Maydawn

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I play a monk on hard and really enjoy it. The wound mechanic actually works for me, even though when I look at it it should not, for the reasons people have stated here.

 

My monk is unarmed and have no armor. I send him in just after my 2 tanks, Palegrina and Eder. He does crazy single target damage.

 

In an easy fight, he will not get hit and get no wounds and just auto-attack. That is fine, since his auto attack damage is quite good enough.

 

In a hard fight with many enemies, 1 or 2 will start attacking him, despite the 2 tanks (4 and 2 engagements respectively). So now he will get wounds, he will start doing aoe damage with Rooting Pain and his auto attack damage goes up with Turning Wheel (think of it as a fire enchant for the fists).

If he starts to take too much damage, I will heal him of course, but also I will start doing CC to the mobs attacking me. With 2x per encounter stuns and Force of Anguish I can get rid of all mobs attacking me if I need to. This is the part that works out. As long as things are hitting me I have endless CC!

His attacks so often that even a missed CC is no problem, another one coming up in 0.5s.

 

This is the most fun class I think I played in a long time! 

 

Just a couple of questions: how did you build your monk ? Did you put high constitution / deflection giving stats ? Because I tried the exact same thing, playing on hard, and I died very quickly with even 1 enemy sitting on my monk :\

Yea wounds stacked very quickly, but my HP dropped accordingly ! [played on hard, doesn't change enemy stats, but there were definitely more situations with more enemies hitting my monk killing him in seconds]

I guess I'll wait for the patch to hit GOG version and give it another go with a fresh start, hoping I won't be disappointed again <.<

 

This is how playing a monk with Force of Anguish looks.

https://www.youtube....QgHg4eTk#t=1m57

 

LOL that's epic ! Loved it ^_^

 

 

The monk is more of an archetype of a western monk. Or a D&D/Pathfinder monk mixed with heavy western influences. The class is supposed to appear more like Friar Tuck in Robin Hood rather then Jet Li in Shaolin Temple. What we imagine the Monk to be is immaterial; the game world doesn't have Eastern monks as popularized by Hong Kong action films. They more resemble the flagellant monk from The Da'Vinci Code. This was how they were designed from day one. Apparently they do work, and are decent tanks.
 

 

 

  The class theme is to  basically "gain soul power from enemies attacks. Turning the attackers aggression, and soul energy back on themselves." What you or I want the class to be is beside the point, the class achieved it's design goal of being very different then the pen&paper monk that's for sure.

 

 

I had no idea that the original class design was like that for this game :o

I always assumed they went for the BG2 style monk new and improved for a 2015 game, not over powered just balanced pew pew fist fighting :)

 

I guess then I just don't quite see eye to eye with this design. It's fine though, there are plenty other classes I like :)

I mostly just wanted to know if the design idea of the class was realized in a balanced manner, or was it just broken execution of a different design



#25
Primislas

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I've started my 2nd playthrough as a monk on hard. And, well, I was being slaughtered by wolves and boars. So it dawned on me to use armor and a staff. Even with armor I still get plenty of wounds. And now I try to think of monks as of templars / hospitallers kind of monks. Just had to reassess my perception of the archetype, it clicked and made me a happier player for it.



#26
Smorensky

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Here's my monk build, playing on hard atm lvl8:
Fire godlike
M:19
C:8
D:10
P:15
I:8
R:18

Skills by lvl:
1.Torment's Reach
2.Lesser Wounds
3.Force of Anguish
4.Weapon focus: Peasant
5.Turning Wheel
6.Vulnerable attack
7.Duality of mortal presence
8.Two weapon style

No weapons, for armor only Berathian robe (2DR, -5% recovery), DR belt for extra 5 pierce and slash resistance.

Atm on hard this character runs into the battle side by side with Eder. Usually Eder locks down 3 enemies while my monk grabs everything that's left. So far this build has excellent survivability and crazy high dmg output. Wound generation isn't a problem if you fight 2 or 3 oponents. Most fights I don't even have to use any abilities. For tougher fights, once I get a few wounds, I send a few enemies flying with Force of Anguish and use remaining wounds to obliderate anything that's left by spamming Torment's Reach, for those rly tough encounters, everything is the same except I use buffs from Durance and position him close enough to heal my monk.

Keep in mind that I haven't rly bothered with picking the right gear (still using stuff I had on me while I was lvl4), and haven't enchanted anything yet.
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#27
colmortimer1066

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This is how playing a monk with Force of Anguish looks.

https://www.youtube....QgHg4eTk#t=1m57

That's not a real monk, he did not got hit once, yet look at all the powers he used....


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#28
Fen(rir)tastic

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To use a MMO term a monk is most effectively built in my experience as an offtank. Draw the majority of targets with your fighter/paladin and then use the monk to pick up the one or two that attempt to flank. If you are struggling buff the monk with your Ciphers DR buff if you have it or any applicable priest buff and then once your wounds pick up just wreck the other enemies. If you build high accuracy and run with leather/light armour you will have a basic DR and with the buffs will be durable enough to dish out the damage. 
 

If you want to build him as a tank, take all the tanking talents and abilities and use DR buffs. Not optimal but viable on hard i think with a good supporting cast. 



#29
View619

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This is how playing a monk with Force of Anguish looks.

https://www.youtube....QgHg4eTk#t=1m57

 

Surprisingly accurate. xD

 

On a serious note, I am very disappointed that the Wounds mechanic was dumbed down to act like Cipher's Focus. Damage mitigation on Wounds sounded really cool and would have provided an interesting method of implementing a front-line class. It seems like the best way to play them is to pick up the 1-2 enemies that the tank isn't engaging and gain wounds like that.


Edited by View619, 05 April 2015 - 07:10 PM.


#30
draek

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This is how playing a monk with Force of Anguish looks.

https://www.youtube....QgHg4eTk#t=1m57

 

If I could play with the Diablo 3 Monk in PoE - I would be loving it. 



#31
pswendel

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Not sure what the problem is. Hard difficulty play through #2, my monk off tank hits harder and faster than any other class. Sure there is a dmg sponge syndrome, but that's a ltp issue it seems. If you're having issues, perhaps it's because you're attempting to crush things which have a high crush DR? Not sure.

#32
Parsong

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1. Lower dmg than other melee-dps like barb and rogue. Including their off-tank specs.

 

2. Worse pure tank than fighter, pally, chanter.

 

3. If you still use fists, you're doing really bad dmg later on.

 

 

 

 my monk off tank hits harder and faster than any other class 

 

 

Build?   Maybe its some wild/secret Monk build I haven't seen yet, but that just doesn't seem possible numbers wise...when objectively comparing to barb,rogue,cipher, and a druid who blows all his spells.


Edited by Parsong, 05 April 2015 - 10:22 PM.


#33
Maydawn

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Here's my monk build, playing on hard atm lvl8:
Fire godlike
M:19
C:8
D:10
P:15
I:8
R:18

Skills by lvl:
1.Torment's Reach
2.Lesser Wounds
3.Force of Anguish
4.Weapon focus: Peasant
5.Turning Wheel
6.Vulnerable attack
7.Duality of mortal presence
8.Two weapon style

No weapons, for armor only Berathian robe (2DR, -5% recovery), DR belt for extra 5 pierce and slash resistance.

Atm on hard this character runs into the battle side by side with Eder. Usually Eder locks down 3 enemies while my monk grabs everything that's left. So far this build has excellent survivability and crazy high dmg output. Wound generation isn't a problem if you fight 2 or 3 oponents. Most fights I don't even have to use any abilities. For tougher fights, once I get a few wounds, I send a few enemies flying with Force of Anguish and use remaining wounds to obliderate anything that's left by spamming Torment's Reach, for those rly tough encounters, everything is the same except I use buffs from Durance and position him close enough to heal my monk.

Keep in mind that I haven't rly bothered with picking the right gear (still using stuff I had on me while I was lvl4), and haven't enchanted anything yet.

 

Those stats are exactly what I try to avoid when building a character, it might be the wrong term, but that's exactly what I'd call min-maxing. On every character I create, I try to RP as much as possible, so that build wouldn't suit me. I don't lower any stat below 10, and probably won't end up with a stat higher than 16. I've said that right off the bat when I opened this topic. Also, once more, the way I look at it, class balance is broken if you need a narrow set of favorable stats to perform well.

 

I might be in the wrong here, but in such an RP rich game, I'd rather avoid all those BG2 builds with 3 int / 3 wisdom on a fighter cause well, "useless", and having 18+ of a main stat. I don't want much from the class, just some basic DR to avoid getting 2 shot by the ogres in Endless Paths or the Raedric Hold fight and bad RNG.

 

Just out of curiosity: why two weapon fighting style ? it affects unarmed ? O.o



#34
Moira

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Here's my monk build, playing on hard atm lvl8:
Fire godlike
M:19
C:8
D:10
P:15
I:8
R:18


Those stats are exactly what I try to avoid when building a character, it might be the wrong term, but that's exactly what I'd call min-maxing. On every character I create, I try to RP as much as possible, so that build wouldn't suit me. I don't lower any stat below 10, and probably won't end up with a stat higher than 16.

Then put Might and Resolve at 16, and Con and Int at 10, and any leftover points where your roleplaying calls them :) At least on Normal difficulty the stats aren't so crucial that the difference between 16 and 18,19 would be the gamebreaker. I doubt that would be the case on hard difficulty either as long as you play your party wisely.

#35
Moira

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Just out of curiosity: why two weapon fighting style ? it affects unarmed ? O.o


Two fists, two blunt weapons. My monk isn't on high level yet so I haven't needed to decide between unarmed and enchanted weapons so far, and I'm just enjoying the heck out of the crazy speed of her fists :D

#36
portedgoblin

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1. Lower dmg than other melee-dps like barb and rogue. Including their off-tank specs.

 

2. Worse pure tank than fighter, pally, chanter.

 

3. If you still use fists, you're doing really bad dmg later on.

 

 

 

 my monk off tank hits harder and faster than any other class 

 

 

Build?   Maybe its some wild/secret Monk build I haven't seen yet, but that just doesn't seem possible numbers wise...when objectively comparing to barb,rogue,cipher, and a druid who blows all his spells.

Toward the end of the game (hard) my monk hit for 25-50 damage unarmed with around 2 attacks per second. He absolutely wrecks encounters. I don't know how crazy OP the other classes must be, but for hard the monk do WAY WAY more damage then needed in order to be viable.

 

The only problem I have is if I get dominated, I must rush to knock the monk down then or he will kill the party in seconds.


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#37
dirigible

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1. Lower dmg than other melee-dps like barb and rogue. Including their off-tank specs.

 

2. Worse pure tank than fighter, pally, chanter.

 

3. If you still use fists, you're doing really bad dmg later on.

How can one person be so wrong?

Fists start out crappy and become incredibly strong later on.

 

Get the talent that increases attack speed by 20% when dual wielding (fists count)

Then get the talent that lets you toggle -20% attack speed for 5 armor penetration

Congratulations, you just added 5 damage to your melee attacks.

 

My endgame monk deals 19-24 damage with each fist (+5% burning lash per wound), and attacks very quickly.

He has significantly more HP than Eder, while having the exact same Constitution. Same Endurance.

His deflection is lower, but his other defenses are comparable to Eder.

 

He is easily the best source of dps in my party AND acts as a completely competent offtank.



#38
axedice

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I play a monk on hard and really enjoy it. The wound mechanic actually works for me, even though when I look at it it should not, for the reasons people have stated here.
 
My monk is unarmed and have no armor. I send him in just after my 2 tanks, Palegrina and Eder. He does crazy single target damage.
 
In an easy fight, he will not get hit and get no wounds and just auto-attack. That is fine, since his auto attack damage is quite good enough.
 
In a hard fight with many enemies, 1 or 2 will start attacking him, despite the 2 tanks (4 and 2 engagements respectively). So now he will get wounds, he will start doing aoe damage with Rooting Pain and his auto attack damage goes up with Turning Wheel (think of it as a fire enchant for the fists).
If he starts to take too much damage, I will heal him of course, but also I will start doing CC to the mobs attacking me. With 2x per encounter stuns and Force of Anguish I can get rid of all mobs attacking me if I need to. This is the part that works out. As long as things are hitting me I have endless CC!
His attacks so often that even a missed CC is no problem, another one coming up in 0.5s.
 
This is the most fun class I think I played in a long time!


Same here minus the aoe damage, I use all of my wounds for CC and a single swift strikes at the beginning of combat. 14 sec prones with max int, max str and dex for damage, min per and resolve, my monk gets hit all the time when he engages (which is the left overs from the tank, enough to get wounds but not too much to kill), and deals out damage and stuns/prones like a truck bomber plane. The class starts to shine after lvl4 when you get vulnerable attacks talent. No armor for max speed, clothes enchanted with might, 2 weapon fighting talent and works like a charm (unarmed attacks count as dual wield and the talent speeds them up too). Really like how the class turned out to be, though the wound raw damage over time mechanic could have been fun for tank builds too.



#39
Manty5

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Think of tank monk as a chanter with only one song:  "Flat on his butt, the foe dealt no more damage"

 

I think that there's a lot of room to build a monk badly, because people don't always take into account that you can spend your wounds(control-based offtank), or you can keep your wounds(turning wheel DPS), but it's difficult to do both and survive all the wounds that doing both would entails.  Also, there aren't enough attributes in the world to be excellent at everything.


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#40
scrotiemcb

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I feel rather strongly that a Monk is currently very incentivized to wear armor, which is very bad for his RP.

I'd like to see something like these added to the game...

Masochistic Anticipation
Monk-only Talent
Passive
Available at level 2
+5 to DR. This bonus is lessened as you use heavier Shields (-2 for Small, -3 for Medium, -4 for Large).

Pauper's Grace
Monk-only Talent
Passive
Available at level 2
+12 to all Defenses. This bonus is lessened as you wear heavier Armor (-3 for Robe, -4 for Padded, -5 for Hide, etc).

Edited by scrotiemcb, 12 April 2015 - 12:03 AM.

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