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Well. PoE is a great game with or without the original poem, it almost doesn't relate to game experience at all.

 

What makes this case rather disturbing is that "offended" are actually most offensive.
Sometimes I feel wrong being straight male these days. Take Dragon Age Inquisition, it has 2 female romancable choices for males, 2 male choices for males, 2 female choices for females and 4 male choices for females. Seems more like otome of some kind, considering the fact that the main consumers of gay male content are women we get 8 choices for females and just 2 choices for males. Still I'm not running around screaming about being offended and demanding changes.

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I've read through most of the thread trying to understand why some people seem to be upset that it was changed and I am at a loss. The original poem dehumanized trans-women.

 

That's the point. It wasn't. There weren't any trans women mentioned or alluded to in the epitaph, and the person assumed to be was not "dehumanized". I'm honestly puzzled by this.

 

I would be much more sympathetic to the removal of the poem if it weren't over an obvious misunderstanding (or deliberate misreading) of it.

Edited by Varana

Therefore I have sailed the seas and come

To the holy city of Byzantium. -W.B. Yeats

 

Χριστός ἀνέστη!

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People get offended by a poem.

People get offended by people getting offended by a poem.

People get offended by replacement of said poem.

People get offended by people getting offended by replacement of said poem.

 

Is there anyone left to play the game? :banghead:

Meh, I better go and stab stuff and shoot fireballs, someone has to pick up the slack.

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I'm reposting a message I sent to one of the PoE team, in the hopes that others read it:

 

 

Your team's considerate action in removing the offending text is what pushed me over into buying your game. That isn't a joke or an exaggeration - I make a serious effort to support businesses that are welcoming to their customers, and in an unfortunate climate where discrimination is rapidly becoming a get-rich-quick scheme, it becomes that much more important to fight back with wallets. I know that you have, and will likely continue to be for some time, harassed by people who feel betrayed by the acknowledgement that LGBT members are also gamers, but you have the right to sleep easy at night knowing you did the right thing. Thank you and I look forward to supporting Pillars of Eternity 2.

Edited by MrBims

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I'm reposting a message I send to one of the PoE team, in the hopes that others read it:

 

 

Your team's considerate action in removing the offending text is what pushed me over into buying your game. That isn't a joke or an exaggeration - I make a serious effort to support businesses that are welcoming to their customers, and in an unfortunate climate where discrimination is rapidly becoming a get-rich-quick scheme, it becomes that much more important to fight back with wallets. I know that you have, and will likely continue to be for some time, harassed by people who feel betrayed by the acknowledgement that LGBT members are also gamers, but you have the right to sleep easy at night knowing you did the right thing. Thank you and I look forward to supporting Pillars of Eternity 2.

 

 

Don't you think that you're seeing evil where there was none? It's not like you're the only LGBT gamer here, you know.


In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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Don't you think that you're seeing evil where there was none? It's not like you're the only LGBT gamer here, you know.

 

 

 

Why are you assuming I'm LGBT? It doesn't matter if I am or not. If you don't stand up for your values when they're tested, they're not values. They're hobbies.

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I've read through most of the thread trying to understand why some people seem to be upset that it was changed and I am at a loss. The original poem dehumanized trans-women.

 

That's the point. It wasn't. There weren't any trans women mentioned or alluded to in the epitaph, and the person assumed to be was not "dehumanized". I'm honestly puzzled by this.

 

I would be much more sympathetic to the removal of the poem if it weren't over an obvious misunderstanding (or deliberate misreading) of it.

 

You are blatantly wrong. Sleeping with a woman, and later finding out that person is "actually a man" has been a common trope for the last 20 years that degrades trans-women (see Ace Ventura, Always Sunny, Jerry Springer, etc. I really don't think this is up for debate).

 

For you to think that this was an obvious misunderstanding, or some sort of internet conspiracy is insane. Please just stop. 

Edited by Elayne

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Hmm...

 

In light of this i suggest to the devs that you remove the game, because there is not a single thing in this world that dont offend someone.

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Honestly what annoys me in all this is that obsidian throw a backer under the bus to please a drama queen and kept saying how important we are, apparently we are worth one twitter.

 

Exactly the message they have sent. I'd be pissed If I were a backer.

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"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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The original poem dehumanized trans-women.

 

Yeah, no. Stop using this liberal system to get offended at every turn.

  • Like 4

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Don't you think that you're seeing evil where there was none? It's not like you're the only LGBT gamer here, you know.

 

 

 

Why are you assuming I'm LGBT? It doesn't matter if I am or not. If you don't stand up for your values when they're tested, they're not values. They're hobbies.

 

 

I second what I said. 100% politically correct is a lie and it only highlights the difference. I'm up for being 99%, saying perhaps something that SOMEONE will view as offensive (because haters are going to hate) but, in practice, knowing what deserves to be done.

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In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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I see we are still raging about that poem incident? Well, isn't it interesting? How an externally projected conflict, conjured between thoughts put there by society and lingering solely within an individual's mind, emanates and creates further conflict within other individuals' minds, as if it is something different and independent from themselves? How the conflict jumps from one end to the other, being preserved and escalated in the momentum of the reaction made by the other individuals, furthering the conflict in the individual who firstly projected it - a response made, purely, between the friction of two ideas, thoughts, mere experiences, memories, which has no relation whatsoever to what is actually present? Simply fascinating, and, well, also quite absurd.

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I see we are still raging about that poem incident? Well, isn't it interesting? How an externally projected conflict, conjured between thoughts put there by society and lingering solely within an individual's mind, emanates and creates further conflict within other individuals' minds, as if it is something different and independent from themselves? How the conflict jumps from one end to the other, being preserved and escalated in the momentum of the reaction made by the other individuals, furthering the conflict in the individual who firstly projected it - a response made, purely, between the friction of two ideas, thoughts, mere experiences, memories, which has no relation whatsoever to what is actually present? Simply fascinating, and, well, also quite absurd.

 

Fascinating I'd agree, but never would've happened lest had Obsidian let it blow over.

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"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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I left a comment on this article questioning why the article did not include screenshots of Erika's multiple '#killallmen' hashtags and pointed out that it was biased reporting... at which it was deleted and an immediate ban slapped down lol.

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I left a comment on this article questioning why the article did not include screenshots of Erika's multiple '#killallmen' hashtags and pointed out that it was biased reporting... at which it was deleted and an immediate ban slapped down lol.

 

You're going against one of the strongest international lobbies my friends (LGTB). Don't you realize, they can do anything they want.

  • Like 1

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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You are blatantly wrong. Sleeping with a woman, and later finding out that person is "actually a man" has been a common trope for the last 20 years that degrades trans-women (see Ace Ventura, Always Sunny, Jerry Springer, etc. I really don't think this is up for debate).

For you to think that this was an obvious misunderstanding, or some sort of internet conspiracy is insane. Please just stop. 

 

 

 

 

It being percieved as a trope and having been used to make fun of transgender in the past does nothing to prove that this joke was about transgender.

It was about a homophobic crazy person whom got too drunk and mistakenly slept with a man (Possibly a male elf) and proceded to run off a cliff... Because he was a fool. That's how it was described by the person whom wrote it, because he wanted to make fun of homophobic fools. 

There is no proof what so ever of this having been a transphobic joke, except in the minds of those that wanted it to mean exactly that. People trying to push a political agenda can find evidence anywhere to prove their predetermined conclusion. 

Edited by ChipMHazard
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I left a comment on this article questioning why the article did not include screenshots of Erika's multiple '#killallmen' hashtags and pointed out that it was biased reporting... at which it was deleted and an immediate ban slapped down lol.

 

You're going against one of the strongest international lobbies my friends (LGTB). Don't you realize, they can do anything they want.

 

Yes, the gay mafia deleted his comment. I'm sure Obama and a few other international leaders were involved. 

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How do i get a refund on steam anyways?

 

You don't. Even when there is a valid reason for it (This not being one of those times)... Well that's not strictly true. They do offer up a one-time refund, but unless you have a law to back you up they won't allow any futher refunds than that. Oh and even then you might still get your account locked. 

Their normal stance on refunds is the following: Tough titty!

Edited by ChipMHazard

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Sometimes it's good to be crazy sweetie :D

 

 

 

I left a comment on this article questioning why the article did not include screenshots of Erika's multiple '#killallmen' hashtags and pointed out that it was biased reporting... at which it was deleted and an immediate ban slapped down lol.

 

You're going against one of the strongest international lobbies my friends (LGTB). Don't you realize, they can do anything they want.

 

Yes, the gay mafia deleted his comment. I'm sure Obama and a few other international leaders were involved. 

PS: You are crazy.

 

 

:DDDD

  • Like 1

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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The funniest thing about this entire issue is that by manufacturing this torrent of fake outrage over such an innocuous joke by claiming it's this massive dehumanizing transphobic social problem when it never was and then, more egregiously, continuing that narrative despite being proven wrong by the guy who wrote the memorial saying it never was about what you're claiming it is you're only proving your ignorance.

 

Not only that, you're putting your energy into actively giving power to people that are truly trans/homophobic by showing how thin of skin you have and how easy it is to get a rise out of you, which by the way, you're the ones instigating yourselves lol. You're fighting a battle that is only hurting yourself in the end.

Edited by Bulivyf
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... despite being proven wrong by the guy who wrote the memorial saying it never was about what you're claiming...

 

 

Some people just *want* to be offended because they don't get attention in real life. In the end, they are just delusional.

Edited by Luj1
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"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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How do i get a refund on steam anyways?

 

You don't. Even when there is a valid reason for it (This not being one of those times)... Well that's not strictly true. They do offer up a one-time refund, but unless you have a law to back you up they won't allow any futher refunds than that. Oh and even then you might still get your account locked. 

Their normal stance on refunds is the following: Tough titty!

 

Yeah, i do have one actually, the consumer code in my country is a very strict one. Too bad many people here choose not to go after their rights here. Ill see what i can do.

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Honestly though, people that demand refunds belong to a pretty extreme minority, but there's still a good point in it.

 

If the point is 'we don't care how many thousands of man-hours you poured into this game or how much people seem to love the work you've done otherwise, if you alter a piece of irrelevant flavor text for reasons perceived to be catering to the Tumblr crowd your company has jumped the shark and should give us all our money back', then yes, a striking point. I can't imagine how people working at Obsidian couldn't take that approach seriously. 

 

Why is it so hard for people to find middle ground here? Like, 'Hey, Obsidian, this was a sh*tty move, we love ya and PoE is otherwise great but please don't do it again' rather than 'you've ruined Pillars of Eternity forever!'

 

It's as if the hyper-sensitivity and crazed over-reaction of the SJW community is contagious. 

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Don't you think that you're seeing evil where there was none? It's not like you're the only LGBT gamer here, you know.

 

If you're of working age then I'm sure you're aware that what constitutes harassment is up to the harassee (I know this isn't necessarily harassment, but it's related, and there's plenty of legal data concerning harassment to reference).  So it's entirely legitimate that some people could have an issue with the limerick, and for that issue to be completely legitimate and actionable, while others of the same persuasion might be fine with it.  Also, no one has a right to tell another that their offense is unwarranted.  That's not how it works.

 

Personally, I think Obsidian handled this issue rather badly, as the way things have progressed has let the author of the offending limerick effectively speak for the company.  And while the new epitaph isn't internally objectionable, it was written in incredibly poor taste, and I think sends a terrible message to people who have been following this issue.  I'm still enjoying the game, but I do hope that this isn't the end of the issue in terms of what we've heard from Obsidian.  Ideally, I'd like to see further action, a policy clarification communicated to backers, and a follow-up interview with someplace like PC Gamer.

 

I also think it's worth pointing out that if this had happened in an office setting, the author of the limerick would be on his way to mandatory sensitivity training at best, given his reaction to the incident.  In short, it doesn't matter what you think about this and it has nothing to do with free speech.

Edited by complexmath
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