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To all the "I almost completed this game and found ZERO bugs"-posters. Please stop.If you almost completed the game and didn't have A SINGLE bug, then you're simply blind or you actively go out of your way not to break the game. 

 

I'm in the third act and while I avoided the double click and stronghold bug, I got the annoying locust one and tons of others. I have at least 10 screenshots of bugs THAT I NOTICED and took screenshots of and that's not including the audio cutting out and bugs like that. 

 

Please just stop, the game is highly enjoyable but it DOES have tons of bugs, some small, some huge. Whether or not that's all right is another matter, but the bugs are there. 

Edited by KingNee

- How can I live my life if I can't even tell good from evil?

- Eh, they're both fine choices. Whatever floats your boat. 

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I usually try to avoid making gripe posts, but my level of frustration and irritation with PoE is growing at such a rate that I kind of just have to let it out this time.

 

Despite being highly interested in a spiritual successor to the IE games of my halcyon youth, I didn't back the Kickstarter for PoE because I wasn't interested in playing a WIP/beta game. Instead, I bought the game a couple days after its official launch, but nevertheless, it feels like I'm playing a late beta version.

 

When literally not a single day can go by without me reading about or encountering a new major bug, I think it's fair to say that the game has launched in an unacceptable state. Disappearing passive bonuses from double-clicking to equip armor, endlessly stacking attributes from loading a saved game, disappearing focus regeneration from equipping an item designed specifically for the only class in the game which uses focus...

 

These are not bizarre, obscure bugs which only a small portion of the player base is likely to encounter, these are things which virtually every player is likely to encounter in the normal course of completing the game.

 

I'm still enjoying much of what PoE has to offer, but you can rest assured that I won't be making the mistake of paying full price for an Obsidian-developed game any time in the near future.

 

sounds like every other game that has come out in recent memory. not sure why you are singleling this game out? however unlike something like Assassins Creed Unity this game was delayed numerous times and actively beta tested for many months. Like all massive RPG the sheer scale and complexity means that not everythign can be caught in beta. So yes on some level one would always expect for the first few weeks a large scale testing of a launched game to be the first port of call.

 

Seriously I can not think of a single RPG that launched without issues and I mean in 20 years worth.

 

You choose to buy a computer game on launch week, trouble is always expected. Even some of the greatest games launched broken. What happens next is whats important.

 

 

There are plenty of edge cases in the fix list that fit under "games are buggy, especially at launch" category. You don't expect perfection and it's a straw man argument to say that's what's going on here. But this isn't a normal level of unfinished. You can't get through this game without bugs unless you.

 

A) Never save your game.

B) Never equip an item.

 

If you can find ANY players who didn't fall foul of either of these two I'd be shocked. When people are talking about being bug free it can only be because they just aren't paying any attention. People are clearly being blinded by nostalgia here. It's been decades since the last game of this ilk but a broken game is a broken game. South Park had an acceptable level of bugs at launch. New Vegas was bad but better than this. KotoR 2 was about on par. Obsidian have lost their shield of "publishers are to blame for the bugs" They clearly just don't give a damn. 

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To all the "I almost completed this game and found ZERO bugs"-posters. Please stop.If you almost completed the game and didn't have A SINGLE bug, then you're simply blind or you actively go out of your way not to break the game.

 

I'm in the third act and while I avoided the double click and stronghold bug, I got the annoying locust one and tons of others. I have at least 10 screenshots of bugs THAT I NOTICED and took screenshots of and that's not including the audio cutting out and bugs like that.

 

Please just stop, the game is highly enjoyable but it DOES have tons of bugs, some small, some huge. Whether or not that's all right is another matter, but the bugs are there.

Of course it has bugs, every game does (including Nintendo games, I don't know why Dirigible claims otherwise). However, I have not encountered any game-breaking bugs. I had a movement issue fixed with a relog. If my stats are bugged, it doesn't matter because I can't see any huge inflation in numbers and I don't care about getting one or two points here and there. I never crashed, not once. Do you know how many ****ing times Elder Scrolls games crashed on me? About that MMO where the main quest didn't appear at all? How saving in Lumiose City in Pokemon XY could make that save stop loading at all, and this game has only one save file so you had to start over (luckily, it was quickly patched)?

 

Stat-related bugs in Pillars are major and shouldn't have made it through QA, but really, this game is far from the broken unplayable mess the OP paints it as.

Edited by Rosveen
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Reminds me of imdb.com

You'll find the trolls who give a movie "1", and the hard-core fans who give them "10".

 

Yes there are bugs, and yes some are game breaking, and I hope the people who can't see that are hard-core fans protecting a game they love, and not ignorant.

 

But we are 1 week into launch, and I hope the people who keep screaming "Beta-product" are serious trolling. Very few games don't have problems on launch.

I still laugh a little when my BG characters can't figure out how to move from one side of a bed to the other... BG2 was riddled with crashes on launch, but a lot of people never experienced this because back then you bought the games physical a while after launch and usually patched the game right away.

 

What matters is if the company works to correct the bugs, and, if the players are very lucky, also try to modify non-bug elements that are annoying.

So far they seem to be doing so.

 

I really enjoy the game so far, but am not blind to the issues with the game.

 

 

I got a good laugh out of this quote though..."When literally not a single day can go by without me reading about or encountering a new major bug" might just be me, but is kinda funny when the game has been out for a week or so :p

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Dear Nortalud,

 

Yes, the game is in beta state at best. There is plenty game breaking, unacceptable bugs. This product should not have been released. It is broken.

 

Have a look at this topic in the tech support section subforum I started yesterday and you will find out you are not the only one who assumes that when you buy something it should work. It doesn't make any sense does it? These days you buy software so it can stay on your hard drive for 3 moths before it matures.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74745-i-feel-offended-do-you/

 

I also got attacked there by the same crowd. 

 

Let me retort with simplest possible logic to all the people saying all this nonsense:

 

Well, I won't repeat myself about how bugs and game development work. 

 

Patch fixing all known major problems & lots more expected tomorrow: https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-179-patch-notes-103/

 

"virtually every player is likely to encounter in the normal course of completing the game."

 

Clearly and objectively untrue, as the many many posters on this very forum will tell you. 

 

First line:

 

"Well, I won't repeat myself about how bugs and game development work."

 

Who cares ? Do you have to know what car mechanics do in a garage so that you can buy their service ? All you care as a customer is if your car works after they fixed it. I don't care how things are made. What I care about is when I buy something I expect it to work. ELEMENTARY LOGIC.

 

Most people experience one bug or another as it is impossible to play it bug free in its current state. You want to tell me you didn't load the game one time in Gilded Vale ?

 

The game is currently very playable and fun. And patches are already under development. Its impossible for a video game to be released with 0 bugs, especially when built on such a large scale as this one.

 

This isn't a few little glitch we are talking about here. It is full of game breaking bugs that prevent me and many others from enjoying a product I paid for. The whole outrage is about the fact that they knew what state the game was in and decided to go for rightfully hated, largely popular ship now worry about it later policy.

 

 

 

So much for PC Master Race.

 

I like the game and I like Obsidian but it simply baffles my mind how such major bugs could have been shipped. I'm not one of the mouth-breathers who thinks that Obsidian should chain themselves to their workstations releasing hotfixes every 6 hours, but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of them either.

 

 

Sure, you can and should be critical of bugs. They suck. 

 

I just try to have perspective, comparing them to other PC CRPGs to understand what actually might have happened and what can be expected. 

 

I suppose if some people thought they're comparable to Super Mario Bros, or that bugs only happen if devs don't work hard or if Q&A falls asleep, etc., then they'd be very angry.

 

 

So we are critical of bugs. What is even more important I am critical of releasing unfinished products. It's a nightmare that this is somehow socially acceptable. It should not be and the developers have to know about it. Comparing it to other games doesn't make any sense. I buy something I expect it is in a working state.

 

 

Nintendo games had a benefit of being developed for a single platform - Nintendo only, this means resources are less tied up to QC/develop for a whole bunch of platforms. Also from what I have gathered and noticed, Nintendo's platforms and games are less complicated - which helps a lot. Their infamous QC obviously being the other big factor.

 

That said, Obsidian need to up their ante on QC. But what we are seeing here (bug-wise) is par for the course for almost all large scale games ... you can play upon release, but beware the bugs! 

 

There is a few small bugs that are platform related but most of the bugs are not. Stacking bug or Raedic's Hold or doubleclicking are logical problems somewhere in the code and it has nothing to do with the fact that they develop for many platforms.

 

This is so wrong that current expectation of any game on release is basically a beta. I don't want to be a part of beta, especially when I am not even aware of it.

 

 

 

I'm still enjoying much of what PoE has to offer, but you can rest assured that I won't be making the mistake of paying full price for an Obsidian-developed game any time in the near future.

 

I think it is still important to support companies that are making RPG's. There are so few of them. We should be encouraging them to do better next time with promises of continued support. What have they done well and what could they do better? promises not to pay full price for the next game will not encourage them to make a next game.

 

 

It will encourage them to make sure the damn thing works before they release it. Paying full price for something that doesn't work sends a different message. It says "Whatever **** you produce we will take it and pay for it". Guess what is better for us customers in the long run if we want decent rpgs. 

 

Just wait for the patch. I bet after its release everyone who yells about "game is a buggy mess!" now will forget about his/her own complaint in a day at most.

 

It is not the point of the discussion. I have no doubt that this game will be in very much enjoyable state in a few months. The issue here is that yet again a company releases unfinished, rushed, broken game. They could have said that game is in open beta for a few months after the release. The didn't. They advertise it as a completed product. We expect it to work; is it too much ?

 

Welcome to modern times.  Complex software has bugs - whether it's your phone, your tablet, your console, your computer - reality happens.

 

If you are so absolutely devastated by bugs - most of which you probably never notice yourself - then wait til a year or two after any piece of software releases - then buy it.

 

No. How about if they think that the game is in terrible state they should wait for the release until it is at least free of game breaking stuff. It is disrespectful to the customers to sell broken products and pretend they are not.

 

If you don't experience any issues and you are the lucky guy, good for you.

 

But people let's be reasonable we have every right to complain. 

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This doesn't feel like a beta. It feels more like we're serving as grunts for their QA team. Which I have to say, every time I'm reminded that Obsidian has a QA division, I'm still a little surprised. But one thing that does feel like a beta, is that if you come across a bug, they demand that you to report it like one. Hosting your own save files and stopping everything while instantly knowing the hows and whys that a bug just occurred, or else you're brushed aside or just ignored. There appears to be some kind of unwritten rule that you cycle as many save files as you possible can juggle for this very purpose. I guess you're a sad case if you're running Trial of Iron, where I've seen people laughed at because they decided to play that mode to start with... as if they had it coming, for choosing a mode that was provided. 

 

And having people continually show up to say that 'it's not the bad' or 'stop whining' or 'nothing broken on my end,' do absolutely nothing to help, let alone having moderators do that. Yes people are reacting strongly, but that also has to do with an established history of Obsidian games. There was a lot built up with Pillars that this time would be different. It will only be different in that everything more than likely will get fixed and the team wont have to do this on their own time, but that's about it. Anyone arguing that there isn't an inevitability of running into a major bug is being dishonest about the evidence that exists. And if people being unhappy with a product, or a game bother you so much... well I don't know what to say to you, it always comes off as a bit narcissistic over the internet when people belittle others for being unhappy. It just stinks of a 'I'm better than you because I can now take your honest reaction and put myself above it, thanks for the opportunity.' It's disgusting and it does nothing to help. And that's what a decent human being would do instead.  

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Complaints about bugs show a severe lack of perspective on the issue if you ask me.  First of all, CRPGs are notoriously buggy on release and have been forever because they are very complex and complexity leads to more variables that can go wrong.  And second of all Obsidian made an incredible game on a shoestring budget, and xpecting that incredible game to also be bug-free on release is just absurd.  They did not have the resources to do that.  Period.  So please try to be a bit more understanding and be happy that they are patching it just a little over a week after release.

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This doesn't feel like a beta. It feels more like we're serving as grunts for their QA team. Which I have to say, every time I'm reminded that Obsidian has a QA division, I'm still a little surprised. But one thing that does feel like a beta, is that if you come across a bug, they demand that you to report it like one. Hosting your own save files and stopping everything while instantly knowing the hows and whys that a bug just occurred, or else you're brushed aside or just ignored. There appears to be some kind of unwritten rule that you cycle as many save files as you possible can juggle for this very purpose. I guess you're a sad case if you're running Trial of Iron, where I've seen people laughed at because they decided to play that mode to start with... as if they had it coming, for choosing a mode that was provided. 

 

And having people continually show up to say that 'it's not the bad' or 'stop whining' or 'nothing broken on my end,' do absolutely nothing to help, let alone having moderators do that. Yes people are reacting strongly, but that also has to do with an established history of Obsidian games. There was a lot built up with Pillars that this time would be different. It will only be different in that everything more than likely will get fixed and the team wont have to do this on their own time, but that's about it. Anyone arguing that there isn't an inevitability of running into a major bug is being dishonest about the evidence that exists. And if people being unhappy with a product, or a game bother you so much... well I don't know what to say to you, it always comes off as a bit narcissistic over the internet when people belittle others for being unhappy. It just stinks of a 'I'm better than you because I can now take your honest reaction and put myself above it, thanks for the opportunity.' It's disgusting and it does nothing to help. And that's what a decent human being would do instead.  

 

What would you prefer? People ready to burn down Obsidian over bugs in the first week? Relax. I think its more the sense of entitlement with people now-a-days. Everyone expects everything to be perfect immediately. That's not how life is. Does it suck that your game broke and you lost time or you cant keep playing or whatever? Yeah, and I'm sorry you can't enjoy the game right this very second. But its not like you've been waiting months for this stuff to be fixed or anything - its been ONE week and they're releasing a patch to fix it. What's the point in complaining about the product? Hoping it'll be different in the future? It won't - accept it. Games are buggy at release - that's pretty much unavoidable. Coming online to complain about it - what do you really expect people are going to do? Especially if you post like a troll (not saying anyones doing that here - but its happened in other threads and stuff), people are probably going to react negatively. 

 

Do I agree that people are being a bit rude at times? Yeah. Do I think people are dismissing your problems? Maybe. But when they get through the game fine without experiencing any (or minimal) bugs, that's THEIR experience, and that's where they're coming from. Don't expect them to understand your problems - humans are inherently selfish and the internet highlights and encourages that kind of behaviors (generally). Is that sad? Sure, but this isn't a perfect world, and you should know that the internet is a sh**ty place by now.

 

Honestly, how should people help you get through this? "Hey man, that sucks, wish you were enjoying it like I am?", "Hey man, that sucks, that's really a shame.", "Hey man, you're right! Let's boycott all future Obsidian games - you know what? Let's boycott ALL video games altogether until the game companies are forced to release 100% bug-free games! YEAH!". Like really? Tell me what you expect to hear from people. Honestly. Maybe I'm just cynical and narcissistic and selfish. Whatever. Help me understand what you're looking for and I can tell you if its realistic. 

 

Does it boggle my mind that some of these bugs made it through? Yeah. Does it boggle my mind that some people have not even minimal bugs and some people have tons of game-breaking bugs? Yeah. Is it unheard of? No. Is it unexpected? No (look at Obsidian's history, as you yourself said - its always "going to be different next time" - don't have unreasonable expectations and just be aware that games are buggy, no matter what.)

 

I'm sorry your not enjoying the game. Honestly. I wish you were happy with it. But maybe going on the internet to complain wasn't the best idea - its not known to be the nicest place, sadly. Maybe complain to your friends and family instead? Sorry. Hope the patch fixes your problems with the game so you can start having fun again.  :no:

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Complaints about bugs show a severe lack of perspective on the issue if you ask me.  First of all, CRPGs are notoriously buggy on release and have been forever because they are very complex and complexity leads to more variables that can go wrong.  And second of all Obsidian made an incredible game on a shoestring budget, and xpecting that incredible game to also be bug-free on release is just absurd.  They did not have the resources to do that.  Period.  So please try to be a bit more understanding and be happy that they are patching it just a little over a week after release.

Again, there's a difference between "bug-free" and "no crippling bugs linked to simply using absolutely core functions".

 

If saving and equipping don't work the game isn't fit for release. Period. Why was this version even made available? 

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People who criticize bug complainers saying that no games are bug free, or suggesting the game would have taken ages longer to release in a better state are just empty talking, without understanding of game testing work or times involvement.

 

A game that has game-breaking bugs should not be out of the beta state. PoE has several game-breaking bugs that just ruin the experience for whomever runs into them (Raedric's keep, auto stat ramping) - and an uncommonly disproportionate amount of people are running into them. Whatever Obsidian's reasons for releasing PoE at this point, it involved a failure of wisdom, and of good business judgement.

 

Reputation is a resource, and Obsidian just burned a lot of peoples' high expectations and trust, even while delivering on others'. This was the game that was on Obsidian's own schedule, and in interviews Obsidian claimed that a large part of the responsibility for previous games' bugginess was the choices of their publishers to release the games too soon. Well, now we see that under Obsidian's full personal control, the same outcome occurs.

 

Just 2 weeks of further bug-testing would have make for a greatly better release. And to have released with some of the kinds of bugs in PoE that are there hurts Obsidian revenue, not just in the immediate present, where loss could be tens of thousands of copies and more, but also from their future games. Word of mouth plays a big role, and now there are a lot of people who don't feel moved to give positive word of mouth, but maybe the opposite.

 

This was a chance for Obsidian to start fresh, to show that they are solid in their capabilities, but they rather reinforced their notoriety for bugs and made it seem all the more earned, because this release was completely under Obsidian's own management.

 

This should be stated openly just for the sake of acknowledging Obsidian's failure to appreciate the chance they had. It's bewildering, nearly stupefying. It presents Obsidian as very poor business managers - a sense that could already have been there from the reality that despite their high profile legacy, this was Obsidian's first personal IP - a fact that screams wastefulness, from a business standpoint. Obsidian had the name and experience equity to build and grow their identity for so many years, but kept working for somebody else - having multiple cancelled projects, and working under constrictions. Obsidian might say the chance to do otherwise wasn't there, but people succeed in business by making their chances. It somewhat looks to me like Obsidian just don't have solid business foresight. Hopefully that changes quickly, from this point onward.

 

 

 

All that said, even though it is disappointing that Obsidian didn't set themselves up for a greater glory by having a gamebreaking bugs-free release (and it would have been a much greater glory), PoE is a fantastic game, and gives reason to be excited for what Obsidian will do in the future.

 

All the less-than-excited energy that is given towards Obsidian for this release is energy that, had PoE released without the game-breaking bugs, would have been there in a different state. And that energy is not static: In either polarity, it goes on to seep through and influence minds towards (or in alignment with) Obsidian in the future. Obsidian acting like there is only a temporary sting, but it dissipates, is naive. It becomes a part of the composition of Obsidian spirit, to either be improved, worsen, or stagnate. Obsidian are dwelling beneath the full realization of their identity potential. Instead of creating a mixed, frustrated energy, Obsidian could be a working legend.

Edited by Delicieuxz
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I have yet to encounter a single bug, gamebreaking or otherwise.

Well, if your point is that you wished to take part in others' buggy experiences, here's the technical support forum's link:

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/forum/104-pillars-of-eternity-technical-support-spoiler-warning/

 

And to a threat detailing some of the game-breaking bugs.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73757-list-of-bugs-that-everyone-should-know-about-game-breaking/

Edited by Delicieuxz
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Sorry it was long, so I shortened it. Removed it, actually.

 

So what's your reasoning as to why they would release the game with bugs? Do you really think they are that stupid that they'd risk their reputation like that? Do you think that they just said "aw to h*** with it, we'll just release it with bugs and be done."? Like, what logical, rational, reason could they have to not releasing it a month from now, completely (or mostly) bug free. Tell me why if you're such an expert? Because they can "get away with it?" How? Rather, it just forces them to be in a mad rush to get the bugs fixed ASAP so they can appease their fanbase. I can't think of one good reason they would chose to release it, knowing they'd have a buggy release, unless they couldn't help it.

 

Here's my list of possibilities. Let me know if you think of any:

 

a) Budget - they ran out of cash and needed the new income. Seems likely, especially since they already delayed it earlier in the year (if they were willing to do it once, why not again, if it makes the game better and they have the resources? Simple. They probably didn't have the resources.

 

b) Their testers (the QA guys) are just terrible and Obsidian really needs to invest in new testers because they've been consistently bad. And any business as large and successful as Obsidian knows that bad testers should be rehired to do another bad performance, right? Cause that just makes sense.

 

c) Somebody got lazy or missed something major, unintentionally. These things happen. Its human nature to make mistakes. How we fix them is what is important. Plus, as you mentioned, if EVERYONE simply MUST have these bugs just like you, but they are simply too unobservant or simply not as smart as you or some other BS, how can you possible expect a professional to find the bugs that got past thousands, if not millions, of people? That just sounds unreasonable to me.

 

d) Obsidian just doesn't care. Which I highly doubt. As you mentioned, from a business perspective, it makes no sense to just release it for no good reason. So there has to be a reason.

 

So which is it? Does Obsidian hate their fans? Was it a mistake? Are they incompetent? Or do you have some other solution? Maybe I'm just not observant enough or too stupid to realize it, so please enlighten me. Since you're an expert and all.

Edited by Hellraiser789
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I'm sorry your not enjoying the game. Honestly. I wish you were happy with it. But maybe going on the internet to complain wasn't the best idea - its not known to be the nicest place, sadly. Maybe complain to your friends and family instead? Sorry. Hope the patch fixes your problems with the game so you can start having fun again.  :no:

 

 

When did I ever say I wasn't enjoying the game? And you seem to have a misconception of why people complain. Most of them aren't trying to achieve anything outside of themselves, it's a natural response to frustration when they feel alone with a problem. Why do you expect people not to complain? Because that's the only jump I can take for how reactive you are to the mere concept.

 

On the topic of what would help, first off, don't tell them to stop doing what they're doing and that they're not accomplishing anything. Be civil and maybe swallow your self image and imagine why they're unhappy before attacking them for it. I think it's unreasonable to assume they're arriving here with the idea that their complaints are going to fix everything. They're coming here because this is one of the only places they know they can.

 

And yes the internet sucks. Terribly. But again, they're not coming here with the concept that, 'well let's go to the internet and see what they have to say!' They're coming here because it's the official forums. Yes there are trolls showing up as well, but carrying that suspicion around to every interaction is no better than being one yourself. One of the reasons the internet sucks as much as it does, is that people seem unable to approach complaints without the need to educate the person on why they shouldn't be complaining. This would be fine and well if everyone knew how to approach such a situation, knew how to communicate properly to pass on information when the other side is emotional or being told they're wrong. But the greater majority of us don't. It usually starts at condescending and just turns into insulting. 

 

So, what should people do? Make less assumptions about a person who's made a complaint. Realise that in most cases, it was purely personal that they need to say something in this forum. And realise that in most cases, you don't need to respond to them unless you have a solution. One thing that isn't a solution is telling them that they don't understand something or they don't have a grasp of how fortunate they are. The most important thing though, don't use them as a punching bag for your own self righteousness on being content. Entitlement can very well be an issue, but you're making a mistake lumping together emotional responses from hundreds of people and lumping them all together as a single entitled whole. They're alone on the other side and they feel more alone than they usually do because of their issue with this game. If you don't know what helping them would amount to, then maybe you should take that as a cue to not involve yourself.

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Game has bugs that I encountered, but any of them wasn't game breaking as I was able to finish the game.

 

Worst bugs that I encountered were such that they give you ability exploit them for your benefit (that can sometimes trigger even without knowing effort from player), and lose of some abilities that characters should have.

 

I also know that there are some bugs that cause some event/encounter scripts not working, which can mean that player needs to load game from earlier point of time and go event/encounter through again.

 

I also know that there are bugs or more accurately unnecessary information that is saved in savefiles causing their size to bloat.

 

There is also some problems with some specific hardwares and softwares.

 

And there is bugs that case minor glitches in sounds and rendered graphics. (In some hardware-software combinations these glitches aren't just minor)

 

But at end in my experience game is not bewitched by bugs that one could say that it is unplayable for majority of players or that it has some much bugs that it is release is incomprehensible thing.

 

But of course it would have been better if game would had been released without any bugs in it, but sad reality is that such is not usually possible from monetary or time perspective for majority of games.

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Sorry it was long, so I shortened it. Removed it, actually.

 

So what's your reasoning as to why they would release the game with bugs? Do you really think they are that stupid that they'd risk their reputation like that? Do you think that they just said "aw to h*** with it, we'll just release it with bugs and be done."? Like, what logical, rational, reason could they have to not releasing it a month from now, completely (or mostly) bug free. Tell me why if you're such an expert? 

 

 

 

I gave my perspective. Not budget, not testing, but lack of business wisdom - which means not seeing the factors that would have enabled Obsidian to care in the better, benefit-producing manner. Those at Obsidian might care a great deal about this dour Obsidian reputation, but not have the clarity of understanding to fix it. Maybe they get real nervous near the end and lose their fortitude. Calling Obsidian stupid for it would be, well, appropriate if they had understanding and yet continued in this manner. That's why I've suspected the business understanding is instead lacking from Obsidian. And I hope that changes right away, since Obsidian have received the experience to show them that this is now fully in their control.

Edited by Delicieuxz
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Maybe none of the beta testers got stuck with a bug that prevented them from progressing, like 99.9% of the playerbase.

 

You're not speaking for 99% of the player base. If I weren't reading the forums, I wouldn't even be aware of the bugs. Mainly because I never double-click to assign items and I tend to run with a single quick save, so my reloading is limited.

 

The only bug I've actually noticed during play is the cage cursor issue. Which is annoying, but hardly game breaking.

 

 

If I wasnt speaking for 99%, then 1 in 100 players would have the bugs. That really doesnt seem to be the case. It doesnt even seem to be 1 in 1000 if you consider that the game sold millions of copies, hence 99.9%.

 

 

 

If you haven't experienced any of these bugs, that's cool for you, but it doesn't matter. The thing that matters is that these bugs exist, they ruin the experience for some players (the amount of which none of us can determine) and they should not have been there at release period. Downplaying the issue does not help anyone, nor does throwing around made up numbers and statistics. If everybody just shuts up about these things, how are they supposed to get fixed? 

 

 

there is your flaw in your thinking, you presume they knew about all the bugs going into launch. Sure some of them did but all of them? This is very common for games to launch with glaring obvious bugs, so obvious they werent spotted. This game isnt alone in that. More than likely they didnt have enough feedback or numbers to make those bugs a priority because they werent bothered by them.

 

It goes without saying, you cast a bigger net you are going to catch more fish. This happens time and again on games at launch, once again, hardly unique to this game or company.

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I'm sorry your not enjoying the game. Honestly. I wish you were happy with it. But maybe going on the internet to complain wasn't the best idea - its not known to be the nicest place, sadly. Maybe complain to your friends and family instead? Sorry. Hope the patch fixes your problems with the game so you can start having fun again.  :no:

 

 

When did I ever say I wasn't enjoying the game? And you seem to have a misconception of why people complain. Most of them aren't trying to achieve anything outside of themselves, it's a natural response to frustration when they feel alone with a problem. Why do you expect people not to complain? Because that's the only jump I can take for how reactive you are to the mere concept.

 

On the topic of what would help, first off, don't tell them to stop doing what they're doing and that they're not accomplishing anything. Be civil and maybe swallow your self image and imagine why they're unhappy before attacking them for it. I think it's unreasonable to assume they're arriving here with the idea that their complaints are going to fix everything. They're coming here because this is one of the only places they know they can.

 

And yes the internet sucks. Terribly. But again, they're not coming here with the concept that, 'well let's go to the internet and see what they have to say!' They're coming here because it's the official forums. Yes there are trolls showing up as well, but carrying that suspicion around to every interaction is no better than being one yourself. One of the reasons the internet sucks as much as it does, is that people seem unable to approach complaints without the need to educate the person on why they shouldn't be complaining. This would be fine and well if everyone knew how to approach such a situation, knew how to communicate properly to pass on information when the other side is emotional or being told they're wrong. But the greater majority of us don't. It usually starts at condescending and just turns into insulting. 

 

So, what should people do? Make less assumptions about a person who's made a complaint. Realise that in most cases, it was purely personal that they need to say something in this forum. And realise that in most cases, you don't need to respond to them unless you have a solution. One thing that isn't a solution is telling them that they don't understand something or they don't have a grasp of how fortunate they are. The most important thing though, don't use them as a punching bag for your own self righteousness on being content. Entitlement can very well be an issue, but you're making a mistake lumping together emotional responses from hundreds of people and lumping them all together as a single entitled whole. They're alone on the other side and they feel more alone than they usually do because of their issue with this game. If you don't know what helping them would amount to, then maybe you should take that as a cue to not involve yourself.

 

 

Valid point. I tend to be rather unemotional and have a hard time relating to that I suppose. I generally don't go to the internet to find solace or solve my problems. Maybe I've been on here too long reading about complaints and problems with the game and how people are never satisfied and nothing is good enough for people (not saying anyone is doing that here, but in other threads and places, perhaps). Maybe I'm taking my real life problems out on other over the internet. I don't know. Obviously I'm not being helpful, and I can't honestly say I was trying to be. So maybe I'm just an a**. Maybe I need to get some sleep. I apologize for upsetting you if I have. Apparently I wasn't considering your feelings and let my own selfish thoughts get the best of me. Who knows? Regardless, I'm out. Hopefully someone can solve your problems or make you feel appreciated or something. (or whatever you're looking for, if you're looking for anything at all.) Have a good day!

Edited by Hellraiser789
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If you haven't experienced any of these bugs, that's cool for you, but it doesn't matter. The thing that matters is that these bugs exist, they ruin the experience for some players (the amount of which none of us can determine) and they should not have been there at release period. Downplaying the issue does not help anyone, nor does throwing around made up numbers and statistics. If everybody just shuts up about these things, how are they supposed to get fixed? 

 

 

there is your flaw in your thinking, you presume they knew about all the bugs going into launch. Sure some of them did but all of them? This is very common for games to launch with glaring obvious bugs, so obvious they werent spotted. This game isnt alone in that. More than likely they didnt have enough feedback or numbers to make those bugs a priority because they werent bothered by them.

 

It goes without saying, you cast a bigger net you are going to catch more fish. This happens time and again on games at launch, once again, hardly unique to this game or company.

 

 

The gamebreaking bugs are too commonplace for that line of reasoning. It shows that Obsidian didn't invest enough effort into searching for them. Maybe Obsidian presumed that the backer beta feedback would have given them all the testing they needed - but that again would be a sign of a soft, unempowered business-sense, and lack of motivation to make certain what the quality / consistency of bug feedback they were getting from backers was.

Edited by Delicieuxz
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The gamebreaking bugs are too commonplace for that line of reasoning. It shows that Obsidian didn't invest enough effort into searching for them. Maybe Obsidian presumed that the backer beta feedback would have given them all the testing they needed - but that again would be a sign of a soft, unempowered business-sense, and lack of motivation to make certain what the quality / consistency of bug feedback they were getting from backers was.

 

Your definition for game breaking is maybe too wide, because game don't have that many actually game breaking bugs (bugs that prevent one to play or finish the game).

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Valid point. I tend to be rather unemotional and have a hard time relating to that I suppose. I generally don't got to the internet to find solace or solve my problems. Maybe I've been on here too long reading about complaints and problems with the game and how people are never satisfied and nothing is good enough for people (not saying anyone is doing that here, but in other threads and places, perhaps). Maybe I'm taking my real life problems out on other over the internet. I don't know. Obviously I'm not being helpful, and I can't honestly say I was trying to be. So maybe I'm just an a**. Maybe I need to get some sleep. I apologize for upsetting you if I have. Apparently I wasn't considering your feelings and let my own selfish thoughts get the best of me. Who knows? Regardless, I'm out. Hopefully someone can solve your problems or make you feel appreciated or something. (or whatever you're looking for, if you're looking for anything at all.) Have a good day!

 

 

Not upset at all. And you do have a valid point in that there are a number of people who complain and only do that, to the point of ugliness. A lot of the same factors are at work in all of this. It's really easy to build up people who say similar things into one big entity on the internet, I think it comes from some pretty natural drives within us. And good god will this place wear you down. 

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