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I'm impressed with the game... but I used a trainer prog too...


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So, I started the game as a barbarian.... and further decided I didn't want to take any non-scripted characters. I wanted to experience the fullness of the story. Oh boy that was a rough decision, one that eventually led me to alter my barbarian with a trainer....

 

My frustrations started in the catacombs in defiance bay, when I reached an area of paladins that pummeled me agan and again... and again. I got real tired of it, and eventually came through but it was a struggle from then on. Some encounters were easier than others, but the average encounter usually meant gritting my teeth and reloading.

 

I don't think this had anything to do with level difference, but had more to do with my group composition. I needed an additional fighter/tank, to utilize the collision detection in the game & reliably soak damage. My barbarian just wan't cutting it. So, I downloaded a trainer to change a few things I didn't like what was going on, like the barbarian, and camping equipment and a few other things :p

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of making rests strategic (and making rests less convoluted in nature), but at the same time, this is a single player game: I'm not competing with anyone else, so the mechanic of having camping equipment is sort of too novel, imo. I digress though.

 

Back to the barbarian, I just felt like, he was too dificult to use. It would be much simpler to replace him with a fighter. It honestly felt like the barb was lack luster role wise - particularly with the collision detection.

 

2-3 tanks seem mandatory for smooth pace in action. So, I mainly altered his stats to be 16+. I thought this would help improve him his performance enough to compensate for only running with one tank (that and open some dialogue options).

 

Wrong, it just wasn't enough, and I wasn't going to make him a demigod and break the mechanics of the game.

 

I succumbed further and swapped the Chanter (Kana) :(   for a dwarven fighter.

 

Things are so much easier now, and even the mobs that like to circumvent the defence line, are much easier to manage.

 

Anyone else notice or have similar sentiments? Any advice?

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Barbarian is not a tank, it's an aoe frontline DPS. Your main tank is either a paladin or a fighter.

I see the dreams so marvelously sad

 

The creeks of land so solid and encrusted

 

Where wave and tide against the shore is busted

 

While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed

 

trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance

 

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Taking a paladin wouldn't seem to cure my woes. I tried making one, and after looking at the stats and utility, they fall too short compared to a fighter or priest. I may as well just slap on plate (which I've done with my barb).

 

I understand that the barbarian is AOE melee but I want to use as many scripted NPC's as I can, without having to resort to the custom ones. That and I feel a bit pigeon holed into having at least two fighters - to be fluid.

 

Easy or normal, it makes no difference. And yea I took 'Hold the Line'

 

 

2-3 fighters seem like the go-to paradigm for the game. ANything else, and its micro management + reloading

Edited by Kveldulf
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Take Eder as your main tank, he does that pretty well.

 

Your Barb should never wear heavy armor. Medium at most. OR you need many other damage dealers.

 

I had in my team:

2 melee (Eder & Pellagina(?) - that Paladin) + 2 ranged supports (Durrance & Kana) + 2 ranged damage-dealers (My mage + Aloth/Grieving Mother (Cypher)).

I used the Paladin as my melee-DPS (yeah I know, horrible idea) - and still managed to win the game on normal not using any scrolls/food/potions.

 

You just have to accept that your Barb can either deal damage or tank it, not both.

Also ÍNT seems to be a good stat for Barbarians as it increases the duration and size of AoE-effects.

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Barbarian is not a tank, it's an aoe frontline DPS. Your main tank is either a paladin or a fighter.

 

I'm not trying to MT with my barb. Running with only one tank is the issue I'm bringing up.  Like I said earlier, 2+ fighters make encounters so much more manageable that your either take them or you risk reloading more - at least, that's my estimation thus far.

Edited by Kveldulf
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Take Eder as your main tank, he does that pretty well.

 

Your Barb should never wear heavy armor. Medium at most. OR you need many other damage dealers.

 

I had in my team:

2 melee (Eder & Pellagina(?) - that Paladin) + 2 ranged supports (Durrance & Kana) + 2 ranged damage-dealers (My mage + Aloth/Grieving Mother (Cypher)).

I used the Paladin as my melee-DPS (yeah I know, horrible idea) - and still managed to win the game on normal not using any scrolls/food/potions.

 

You just have to accept that your Barb can either deal damage or tank it, not both.

Also ÍNT seems to be a good stat for Barbarians as it increases the duration and size of AoE-effects.

 

Huh, well how often did you have to rest? Either way, I think the game seems so much easier with 2 fighters than only 1 fighter and 1 OT. Particularly when some jump around and swarm your clothies (and healer is getting interupted/pounded).

 

I do wonder if some people have their difficulty setting functioning differently than mine. When I changed it from normal to easy, it felt like it made no difference, and I'm not new to the tactical rpg genre either (since 2000). I put it back on normal after this realization

Edited by Kveldulf
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My main character is a dps monk, and I'm only using the standard companions - so Eder is my only fighter.  I'm playing on Average difficulty and doing fine.

 

Sometimes my monk gets mobbed and goes down, and I have to finish the fight without her.  It's annoying, but it's going to happen.  Yeah, if I had 3 fighters in the party then most of the enemies would be locked down and she might never get into that situation...but that's not the same thing as needing 3 fighters for the party to succeed.  We are successful with just the one fighter.

 

So, I'd say that if you are upset that your main character gets knocked out in some fights, and calculating that you need to have 3 fighters in the party to prevent that from happening, then the real issue is not that you don't have enough fighters and instead that you are playing the wrong class or class build.  Make a tankier character for yourself (a fighter, maybe, since you seem to respect their durability) and maybe then you'll be tough enough not to drop.

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in hard i used just 1 tank (the warrior) and its enought .

 

One think that will help you early game, is that the fact that you can go to a place does not mean you should. you can go at that temple at lvl 2, but its not easy ... if you go back at lvl 4 is a lot better :)

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Crowd Control is your friend : fear, stun, confusion. Use it. Like a lot when there are too many enemies. A good part of the companions you can find have lots of crowd control abilities they can develop.

 

This is true. I probably don't use them enough, but at the same time, non encounter abilities can only be cast once per rest.

 

I guess in the end, what I'm ultimately  saying in this thread is, I thought the barb would be decent at OT (with some hybrid gear), when in reality he's not.

 

And, that 2 fighters seem to reduce party down time (and reloading) so much more than any other tank option - imo

Edited by Kveldulf
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Crowd Control is your friend : fear, stun, confusion. Use it. Like a lot when there are too many enemies. A good part of the companions you can find have lots of crowd control abilities they can develop.

 

This is true. I probably don't use them enough, but at the same time, non encounter abilities can only be cast once per rest.

 

I guess in the end, what I'm ultimately  saying in this thread is, I thought the barb would be decent at OT (with some hybrid gear), when in reality he's not.

 

And, that 2 fighters reduce party down time (and reloading) so much more than any other tank option

 

 

cypher XD lvl 3 , mental binding xD

Edited by Arctic
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honestly? hardly ever, basically only before boss battles or when my party was majorly exhausted .

 

Quite a bit in the earlier levels but after that I was always capped with my camping supplies and couldnt pick the ones up that were in dungeon chests (though I often rested there in order to not waste them).

Once you get to Defiance Bay / get your Stronghold you're usually at the point where a single fight won't risk your party's lives.

 

When I did the "endless" dungeon, I accidently skipped a few levels and then had to fight my way back out, that was the only time where I got close to running out of supplies.

 

Just try to not skip too many quests or advance to areas that your party cant handle yet. Higher level = easier fight

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Crowd Control is your friend : fear, stun, confusion. Use it. Like a lot when there are too many enemies. A good part of the companions you can find have lots of crowd control abilities they can develop.

 

This is true. I probably don't use them enough, but at the same time, non encounter abilities can only be cast once per rest.

 

I guess in the end, what I'm ultimately  saying in this thread is, I thought the barb would be decent at OT (with some hybrid gear), when in reality he's not.

 

And, that 2 fighters seem to reduce party down time (and reloading) so much more than any other tank option - imo

 

 

Barbarian is not an OT. Paladin is with the correct choice of talents and attributes. It's matter of balance : you can't have a melee AOE dps being too tanky.

Of course, having two fighters or paladins will make your party more on the defensive side. On the other hand, a more offensive party relies more on the correct choice of mobs to target and the quickness.

Roman legions against Mongol cavalry.

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@Kvedulf: 

 

(1) As already stated, crowd control. Blind, stunned, paralyzed, confused, charmed, prone. Find out what can confer these and use them to your advantage.

(2) Use buffs and debuffs strategically. If you're getting punched too hard, debuff enemy's Accuracy or buff your Deflection. If you're not doing any damage, buff your Accuracy or debuff their Deflection. And so on.

(3) Look for synergies. Have one toon use an ability or spell that attacks Will to debuff Reflex, then another to use a spell or ability that attacks Reflex to do damage.

(4) Read up on what, exactly, the status effects do. Blinded for example makes all the difference because of what it debuffs.

 

One tank is enough. Edér and Pallegina will both get the job done fine. With the rest of the party it's all about using them strategically.

 

Durance is your secret weapon. His buffs and debuffs are crazy powerful if you just figure out which one to use in which situation.

I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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My party composotion ATM is Fighter, Cipher, Druid, Priest, Hunter, Mage

A fighter with decent items and some defensive talents is more than enough to tank several targets at once. The hunter pet can bind one maybe two targets for quite some time. My cipher can usually tank one or two smaller targets while killing them. Using crowd controls, blinds, debuffs/buffs.

 

I´m on Hard difficulty and there was until now only one dungeon were I had to go back to town one or two times (mostly because I had no camping supplies with me and couldnt find any to buy in that town)

 

But I guess you can just cheat too if you want to...

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Crowd Control is your friend : fear, stun, confusion. Use it. Like a lot when there are too many enemies. A good part of the companions you can find have lots of crowd control abilities they can develop.

 

This is true. I probably don't use them enough, but at the same time, non encounter abilities can only be cast once per rest.

 

I guess in the end, what I'm ultimately  saying in this thread is, I thought the barb would be decent at OT (with some hybrid gear), when in reality he's not.

 

And, that 2 fighters seem to reduce party down time (and reloading) so much more than any other tank option - imo

 

 

Barbarian is not an OT. Paladin is with the correct choice of talents and attributes. It's matter of balance : you can't have a melee AOE dps being too tanky.

Of course, having two fighters or paladins will make your party more on the defensive side. On the other hand, a more offensive party relies more on the correct choice of mobs to target and the quickness.

Roman legions against Mongol cavalry.

 

 

Yep. I learned the hard way that the barbarian is not at all going to be a good OT..... 30 hours in :p You can make it work but its painful (unless that's your thing). Chanter has acted as a good band-aid though. Pain suppression ftw!

 

I was just under the impression that there was some give to hybridizing - after looking at the stats; that I could make him a decent off tank. Nope.

 

This system is more role oriented than I remember the devs leading me to believe ( from last years dev diaries). :(

Edited by Kveldulf
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@Kvedulf: 

 

(1) As already stated, crowd control. Blind, stunned, paralyzed, confused, charmed, prone. Find out what can confer these and use them to your advantage.

(2) Use buffs and debuffs strategically. If you're getting punched too hard, debuff enemy's Accuracy or buff your Deflection. If you're not doing any damage, buff your Accuracy or debuff their Deflection. And so on.

(3) Look for synergies. Have one toon use an ability or spell that attacks Will to debuff Reflex, then another to use a spell or ability that attacks Reflex to do damage.

(4) Read up on what, exactly, the status effects do. Blinded for example makes all the difference because of what it debuffs.

 

One tank is enough. Edér and Pallegina will both get the job done fine. With the rest of the party it's all about using them strategically.

 

Durance is your secret weapon. His buffs and debuffs are crazy powerful if you just figure out which one to use in which situation.

 

Yea, I've sort of reserved durance to act as a healbot more than anything. Its really hard not too. /shrug

 

Guess I should broaden my horizons on how to play the game, than force my own view of it. heh. You've given me a few things to really think on.

 

[Reaction success: PrimaJunta gained 250 XP]

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I took a Barbarian (and loved it; they may not be your tanks-in-chief but christ alive can they kill a lot of mooks quickly - add armour with retaliation and late-game fodder basically just dies as you walk through it), Eder, Sagani, Pellagina, Hyrcanias and Durance on my first playthrough (I switched it up with Grieving Mother, Kana and Aloth as well). Didn't have tons of problems, though I'm definitely feeling the benefit playing with custom characters on hard for my second shot.

Personally I reckon two tanks is definitely enough if one of them's a fighter. I was largely working with my barb and Eder tanking and Pellagina and Sagani's fox companion as the backups if enemies slipped past.

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