Anyone else think it's hard to read while the dialog starts speaking before you're ready?

[superjoust]

I mean, you probably know how it goes.  Someone talks and you see this:

 

Odema chuckles and shakes his head.  He looks at you. "Don't listen to her.  You're in good hands."

 

He casts a sidelong glance at her. "And I pay too well if anything."

 

 

and all you hear is the spoken parts (yellow above), with no pauses, at the same time that you're trying to read the part before it.  Sometimes it kind of drives me bonkers because I love the writing, and want to take it all in.  

 

Obsidian, if you're listening, it would be so great if it had natural pauses put in there so we had time to read it.

 

 

 

 

[superjoust]

[Ink Blot]

I listen to it first, then read it after. Hearing the voice gives me the flavor of the character as well as the info, of course. Reading it after gives me the visual imagery and helps with the context. I find this works very well for me. The key is not being overly impatient to read what's up on the screen.

[superjoust]

Yeah, but that means for every bit of dialog, you have to read it two ways.  With a little bit of delay scripting in each dialog (granted that might take some effort), it could be smooth as butter.

 

It's like in Unreal 4, if you open the dialog sound cue and insert a delay, you could set this up relatively easily.  I'm not sure how it works for Obsidian's engine.

[superjoust]

Besides, my current solution is I just MUTE it whenever the dialog is talking out of sync with me reading the text.  Which kind of defeats the purpose of having the dialog in the first place.

[lyin321]

Besides, my current solution is I just MUTE it whenever the dialog is talking out of sync with me reading the text.  Which kind of defeats the purpose of having the dialog in the first place.

 

 It is like in BG2 (maybe a little more) - they are partially voiced not fully voiced like some other games so that is good solution IMO.

And you might end feeling different of certain characters than the folks who listen to voices, which will be interesting:)

 

And how will they know what the appropriate pause is? I, for example, have learned to read the ''action bits'' very fast (so I often have to re-read to not miss something important) so I am not listening and reading two different things.

 

 Maybe the solution is to get away entirely from VA and I am pretty much ok with that if so they choose. Not only that fix the problem with the current writing style, it also allow modders to create silent NPCs without having to worry about voices. But that is a pretty risky solution I guess and....probably not going to happen:)

[superjoust]

I don't think it's that tricky.  I mean film has several standards for subtitles.  For example this was just taken from a guide I found from a quick google search of TV and film reading standards (link).  I'd bet it would serve to just count up the number of words, then multiply that by the average reading speed, and there's your delay.  It wouldn't be hard to turn that into a function.  

• Duration of a full two-line subtitle (maximum duration): The reading speed of the “average” viewers (aged between 14-65, from an upper-middle socio-educational class) for a text of average complexity (a combination of formal and informal language) has been proven to range between 150-180 words per minute, i.e. between 2 1/2-3 words per second. This means that a full two line subtitle containing 14-16 words should remain on the screen for a maximum time of something less than 5 1/2 seconds. However, we would actually have to expand the estimate to around 6 seconds because one should also add about 1/4-1/2 of a second that the brain needs to start processing the subtitle it has traced...
• Duration of a full single-line subtitle (maximum duration) : Although pure mathematics would lead us to the conclusion that for a full single-line subtitle of 7-8 words the necessary maximum duration time would be around 3 seconds, it is actually 3 1/2 seconds. This happens because... etc. (see link for more)

 

These rules (above) are for TV, and are often left up two or three times longer than what we'd probably want.  But the point is you could get a general estimate and automate a delay that would fit, and even add a slider to adjust for reading speed if you wanted.

 

Obsidian knows what resources it has.  I'd think they are capable of doing it, it's just a matter of whether it's something they want to devote a week to.  IMHO I'd say it's worth it, because I think it makes it pretty tough to enjoy the game the way it is (without just muting it).  I mean pretty much every response here says they have to basically read it twice.  

 

They already invested in voice actors, I'd say invest a few more days to make their efforts pay off.

[Rosveen]

I would just like to point out that yellow font is unreadable on the mobile version.

[Tuckey]

If they had just voice acted the opening line and nothing else it would be an improvement. That acts as a taster and I can read the rest in my head.

[Emptiness]

Everyone reads at different speeds, so how would they decided how much of a pause to put in?

 

Edit: I see now that this was already asked and answered.  I disagree that the answer will solve the problem, but oh well.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Emptiness

[Ink Blot]

Yeah, but that means for every bit of dialog, you have to read it two ways.

Well, no. You only read it once. You hear it once. Anyway, as I said, it works for me.

[Kriber22]

I would think that the best option would be to simply have the read-only text and the voiceover text on separate "pages", so you can click Continue once you've read the description and you're ready to hear the voiceover.

[Asmodean-]

I agree tbh. I've taken to not reading the novelised expressions for voiced paragraphs. Instead try let the voicing convay this information, in itself. (I obviously read it for the non-voiced stuff, though).

 

I find it a bit jarring, when a lot of the time - a full paragraph of dialog will be voiced, then on the same character, the next line is just blank, vocally lol. It's very inconsistant, imo. I appreciate that the voicing is limited with funds, etc. but tbf voicing 15 lines, then 2 lines no voice, then back to a voice the next line is jarring, whatever way you look at it.

 

Maybe they should have tried to stick exclusively with voicing the 'main' story stuff. Or as others have mentioned, just voiced an intro greeting, or something, then read the rest.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Asmodean-

[Horrorscope]

Yes something to adjust to. When a new section appears I wait a breif moment to see if it will be voiced first and I've trained myself to go directly to the highlughted white text (I believe it is) which is the readable part to follow along.

 

Sem-related: Is there a link to all the in-game tips? In-game tips are a funny thing, the can come and go too quickly to read. So I rather just have a place to go read them directly.

 

FWIW I am a fan of the Nintendo way of presenting text that it appears at a certain speed (being variable controlled in config x10 better yet), to me it helps with Wall o Text fatigue. You don't get a sense of how long it will be and you stay more focused as it writes itself out. Me anyway. So a delivery like that, with controlled speed slider (we read at different speeds) is something I think emerging UI's could take advantage of.

[lyin321]

 If you mean the tips that come with loading screen you can see them in the....where you see your damage and stuff there is a tab to show dialogue instead...awesome description I know:)

 For link with all of them I can't help you sorry.

[Amentep]

Weirdly I listen to the text, then read the description ignoring the spoken lines I've heard already.

 

Works for me, so no problems with the dialogue system.

[superjoust]

I would just like to point out that yellow font is unreadable on the mobile version.

Thanks, I'll avoid that from here forward.

[superjoust]

 

Yeah, but that means for every bit of dialog, you have to read it two ways.

Well, no. You only read it once. You hear it once. Anyway, as I said, it works for me.

 

What you're describing is what everyone basically has to do, like it or not.  Everyone has to hear the dialog (unless muted), and then they can go back and read the rest if they want.  It works for you, which to me is like, "Hey, I know someone spilled Coke on the floor, so I just get used to sticky feet."  I'm sure that can work, but in this case Obsidian might be able to do better if they think about it a little more.

 

Edit: Also, let me just explain a little about where I'm coming from.  I love that some people just enjoy the game for what it is, and defend the makers of the game.  I make video games for a living, and have for ten years.  I'm not saying that to be braggy or claim I'm super-smart.  I'm just used to seeing things like this all the time and trying to solve them.  But, this isn't my company, and I don't know all the goings on over at Obsidian.  I know they have smart guys over there who know what they're doing.  They may still value the feedback.

 

For this case, I just like their writing, want to enjoy it but this issue hinders that, and I figure others may be in the same boat.  That's all.  If what they have works for some people already, great.

Edited April 2, 2015 by superjoust

[general_azure]

I somehow summoned enough multitasking power to read the silent description parts while listening to the spoken lines at the same time... but it's not exactly comfortable. I agree that some short pauses at appropriate places would be helpful.

[vv221]

This issue has already been brought up in the "tech support" sub-forum:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73339-bug-flavor-text-the-describing-part-of-a-conversation-doesnt-work-well-with-the-voiced-parts/

[Lephys]

It would be rather nice if there were some pauses in. Even just a few seconds or so. Or, however they want to calculate it. .1 seconds per word? *shrug*. Just some simple formula that works out well enough. So that, when there's 5 words of description, you get a very short pause, as opposed to a longer pause when there are 3 sentences of description.

[Sedrefilos]

Yes it's hard and annoying. Maybe there shouldn't be descriptions in the voiced parts. The voice tone covers it anyway.

[vv221]

This topic is been discussed on the inXile forums too:

https://forums.inxile-entertainment.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=12777

[Fuz]

 

I mean, you probably know how it goes.  Someone talks and you see this:

 

Odema chuckles and shakes his head.  He looks at you. "Don't listen to her.  You're in good hands."

 

He casts a sidelong glance at her. "And I pay too well if anything."

 

 

and all you hear is the spoken parts (yellow above), with no pauses, at the same time that you're trying to read the part before it.  Sometimes it kind of drives me bonkers because I love the writing, and want to take it all in.  

 

Obsidian, if you're listening, it would be so great if it had natural pauses put in there so we had time to read it.

 

 

 

I agree.

Maybe because english is not my native language, but PC & NPCs speaking over description kinda gets me confused often.

[Terminull]

As it is right now, I simply have the Voice sound setting set to 0. I am a heavy reader though and I like to imagine the voices for myself, since it's what I am used to with novels. I dislike that it mutes all voices though. I would like to be able to pick and choose. I would still really like to hear the narrator during the chapters voice overs, for instance. In a perfect world though, for me, it would mute all the dialog by default and only play when I have my mouse hovered over the text for it.