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IWD was *just* a series of dungeon crawls with no real plot and no story. I mean, it was fun for what it was, but that's like comparing a bowl of rice crispies and a Fruity Pebbles Medicated Rice Krispy Treat.

Oh! I guess I just imagined the blood war feud between Yxonnemai and Belhifet. The influence of Crenshinobon. The Drow betrayal of the Elven and Dwarven alliance, and the failed Mythal at the Severed Hand. The Barbarian tribes duped into trying to start a war with the 10 towns, by a dragon who successfully preserved her soul and channeled it into a revered, long dead Barbarian hero of Forgotten Realms lore. A cowardly king who betrayed Helm's chosen and tortured-to-undeath the Bard who witnessed this betrayal then invoked a Curse on the King's castle and subjects.

 

Icewind Dale had a better written (and delivered) Story than Both Baldurs Gates. The people who say otherwise are the same simple-minded demographic that Bioware attracts with their gimmicky, teenage, beat-you-over-the-head-with it narrative style.

 

wait-what-dog.jpg

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^Exhibit A.

 

Now go ahead and counter with: But, Minsc is funny! And: I can Romance Viconia in BG2 fap-fap-fap!

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I like the design idea behind Dark Souls that the narration of a game should be game-specific. We got, for a long time, literature-style narration and when the technical aspect allowed it, movie-style narration. Dark Souls is pretty much in the same vein as Half Life, except that it pushes this idea to the extremes.

Pretty much any enemy, its placement in the world, the items he wears, the attack-types he uses (type of magic/miracle) is relevant to the lore, and sometlmes is actually the only way to know more by deduction. From the hole in the roof in the undead asylum to the corpse of Tarkus in Anor Londo, there is no text nor cutscene and yet you can understand what happened through world design and bestiary. It's pretty brilliant for that matter.

 

Problem is :

- Dark Souls lore is entirely back-looking. It's almost always about what happened while there's actually not much happening during the course of the game, besides the player deeds.

- Dark souls got a rather tough world. It's difficult to take time to notice Tarkus fate in Anor Londo while DEM THESE F***ING KNIFE THROWERS AND WHY IS THIS PLANK SO NARROW. You know :D

 

But yeah Dark Souls is pretty awesome in that regard.

 

Good to know there are people out there who see the truth about Dark Souls. Nothing bothers me more than people who say DS didn't have story or backstory, because that, by defintion, proves to me they didn't bother reading or doing any real exploration; and just played it like a DMC [or other hack n' slash] game where you just hack through the monsters and only look at stats on items. It's like a little tell. :p

 

I agree on the companions about them being somewhat boring and I wasn't sure why. Prior comments in this thread seem to make sense. So far I've found them all far too amicable (my biggest issue) and willing to talk about their homeland and their backstories; guess I know why.

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He is not wrong. I remember those plot elements.

I remember them to. I don't remember them being significant to the game in any real way or being particularly well developed or well written. I remember them looking, feeling, and appearing very much tacked on because the entire design of the game, not to mention marketing set up for the games, was that they focused more on the strategic and tactical combat than the other IE games. That was their main selling point.

 

Diablo had a plot, too. The IWD games were not some kind of narrative adventure and masterpiece of fantasy writing. They were never meant to be or designed to be, they were never sold on the strength of such, and for damn sure their reputation as great and well-remembered games in the fan community doesn't rest on the strength of their narrative and plot.

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He is not wrong. I remember those plot elements.

I remember them to. I don't remember them being significant to the game in any real way or being particularly well developed or well written. I remember them looking, feeling, and appearing very much tacked on because the entire design of the game, not to mention marketing set up for the games, was that they focused more on the strategic and tactical combat than the other IE games. That was their main selling point.

 

Diablo had a plot, too. The IWD games were not some kind of narrative adventure and masterpiece of fantasy writing. They were never meant to be or designed to be, they were never sold on the strength of such, and for damn sure their reputation as great and well-remembered games in the fan community doesn't rest on the strength of their narrative and plot.

 

True.

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I think it's sadly hilarious to see the number of quite obviously subjective opinions posted as if they are actually confirmed, objective fact.


Haven't you heard?
It's a battle of words!
the poster bearer cried.

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BG1: First companions are (heya it's me) Imoen, crazy Xzar and Monty. Dude tries to kill you. First time you play the game, you die (BG1 did this assassin/bounty hunter things very well) . Later, you stumble upon Khalid, Jaheira and... Minsc. 

PoE: First companions Eder and Aloth. One is the most boring dude ever, other is even worse. Can you even quote any of PoE companions? 

 

BG1: Boo

PoE: Piglet

 

Edér: "Hey pig! Hey pig! Woo pig! Ha, look at him with his little tail."

 

Edér is cool. 

 

PoE is great. 

 

*~ opinions ~*

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I could probably quote any of the PoE companions ... if they said the same things over & over & over again, like they do in BG1 & BG2.

 

But, since they don't seem to do so, I'm never sure what they're going to say next, & my utterly subjective, personal opinion is that both Eder & Aloth are fairly interesting individuals.

 

YMMV. 

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Haven't you heard?
It's a battle of words!
the poster bearer cried.

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But for the life of me I can`t understand the hype over the game which seems almost hysterical to me. After having finished the game 

I stopped reading here.

 

 

Good, you don`t sound very interesting. Now all that remains is to stop commenting on threads when you have nothing intelligent to contribute and we`ll be getting somewhere.

 

My boy, it's simple math. the game  was released on March 26. PIllars can give you 70 hours of gameplay easily. How many hours have you played Pillars of Eternity? how long did you take to finish the game? Some people can finish a game faster than others; the difficulty level also plays a part I really hate going through a game I like really fast. Sometimes the character will speak, others you must read the dialogue.Could it be that you don't take time to listen the characters or read the dialogues? this game isn't fast food.

Have you been trying to figure out how to beat the game in a few hours instead of playing it? the patch 1.10 update ( turn-combat only) isn't yet ready... frankly, it's almost impossible to finish PoE in just 5 days. Don't you have a life? 

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For me its kinda living up to the hype, so far that is

 

It has that dark, sinister feel that many games go for but most fail at

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IWD was *just* a series of dungeon crawls with no real plot and no story. I mean, it was fun for what it was, but that's like comparing a bowl of rice crispies and a Fruity Pebbles Medicated Rice Krispy Treat.

Oh! I guess I just imagined the blood war feud between Yxonnemai and Belhifet. The influence of Crenshinibon. The Drow betrayal of the Elven and Dwarven alliance, and the failed Mythal at the Severed Hand. The Barbarian tribes duped into trying to start a war with the 10 towns, by a dragon who successfully preserved her soul and channeled it into a revered, long dead Barbarian hero of Forgotten Realms lore. A cowardly king who betrayed Helm's chosen and the tortured-to-undeath Bard who witnessed this betrayal then invoked a Curse on the King's castle and subjects.

 

Icewind Dale had a better written (and delivered) Story than Both Baldurs Gates. The people who say otherwise are the same simple-minded demographic that Bioware attracts with their gimmicky, teenage, beat-you-over-the-head-with it narrative style.

 

 

I liked Icewind Dale 1/2 but honestly don't have a good handle of the plot. In fact, I can't really recall many of the details. Although thats probably more because I think I only actually finished them once each. Enjoyed them a lot, but personally I found the companions to be a bigger draw for BG2. Although I really should replay the Icewind Dale games - its been a LONG time and I think I might've played them when I was too  young or something because the plot is actually really cool and deep and I somehow missed that completely... Loved the feel of the Icewind Dale games though - the environment and atmosphere was great - one of the best games I've played - but idk, BG2 just had something that made IWD feel like it was lacking a little.

 

Definitely got to replay them though - I think I stopped playing because I've always had trouble getting the IE games to work on my computers and between the two, I usually chose to devote more time in getting BG2 to work.... Gotta say, you know you love a game when you're willing to uninstall and reinstall it a billion times trying to get it to work on a new computer, or even switching computers simply because you can't play the IE games on it.... Honestly, PoE has just got me feeling real nostalgic and thats awesome!  :no:

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Icewindale 1's plot has some really compelling bits imo.  Probably not as deep as Baldur's Gate in terms of how it interacts with the characters and the setting but still pretty solid. IWD 2 had its problems but there's  at least one absolutely amazing bit.

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I've always thought IWD2 was far better written than it had any need to be. I mean it was essentially an ARPG dungeon crawler in the Infinity Engine but it had a solid story funny banter and at least three really interesting conversations. The blind seeress in the first chapter especially is one of the very best cryptic prophets in gaming. Though she was written by Avellone who seems to have a raging hard on for blind old cryptic women in video games. But then don't we all?

Edited by Bhazor
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The story (and the quest) behind Bane's Imprisoned 6 was also top notch writing

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snip, im going to just do a Q+A style because your post comes in many parts to make it easier to read

 

Q:1: Lack of replayability- Agree but not by characters/lore but by combat entirely simply because there is no middle ground to enemies, the game forces you to push into territories for specific quests and stages you cant just roam a little or you end up attacked by something rediculously high tier. I find enemies level the biggest flaw in p.o.e but the combat system structure itself (deflection/will/Reflex ect) grand.

 

Q:2: Obscene loading times. A: I disagree my comp has no issue here but its a fairly new computer

 

Q:3: It is not better than Baldur`s Gate. And it should be considering that Baldur`s Gate is 17 years old.

A: I agree to a point, the game should not be the same as baldurs gate but I have severe gripes about unlimited carrying capacity in your stash or as I call it the Luggage (Terry Pratchet reference may he r.i.p) that your trawling around the dungeon with a blacksmiths shop. Secondly I have no issue with the camping system its nice but I should be allowed to rest wherever I please even without camping equipment, or at least make it unlimited capacity considering you can lug 100 small shields around in a chest.

 

I find spells to be a bit of a letdown also, I find that enemies always home into your magic caster using abilties to skip your melle and there are little spells to properly defend agaist enemies, for this reason you end up either having to use too many spells agaist enemies, or end up with your magic user maimed and needing to rest or keep him out of combat while the rest of your party is healthy. The spells in p.o.e are merely upgrades of the same spell, ive yet to see anything interesting such as a chromatic orb, grease, summoning spells that adds randomness or you can use a secondary spell to ignite the grease for instance.

 

The storyline is excellent so far what ive experienced, the choices and the encounters that you have to decide via storytelling screen is marvelous this is indeed superior to baldurs gate. 

 

I cant really say one is better than the other but both have merits in their own right and letdowns just like any game. I just hope someone takes in popular advice and either updates or expands upon it.

 

 

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The problem with the IWD story isn't the premise, but that you it doesn't do anything to get you emotionally invested in it. In BG1 Sarevok kills your foster dad (not that many people cared about that), but then hires bounty hunters with evil hearts (oh no!) to kill you. All I'm doin' is minding your own business and *BAM!* evil jerkwad tryin' to kill me.

 

Who are these guys? Wht's their friggin' beef!? I'm mad. Now I *want* to take down Sarevok and the iron throne cuz' they're always cramping my style.

 

IWD is just a flurry of exposition about stuff that doesn't really concern me on a personal level.

Edited by Namutree

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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The problem with the IWD story isn't the premise, but that you it doesn't do anything to get you emotionally invested in it. In BG1 Sarevok kills your foster dad (not that many people cared about that), but then hires bounty hunters with evil hearts (oh no!) to kill you. All I'm doin' is minding your own business and *BAM!* evil jerkwad tryin' to kill me.

 

Who are these guys? Wht's their friggin' beef!? I'm mad. Now I *want* to take down Sarevok and the iron throne cuz' they're always cramping my style.

 

IWD is just a flurry of exposition about stuff that doesn't really concern me on a personal level.

 

 

motivation.jpg

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The state of these forums...

 

Reminds me of Obsidian forums of yore.

 

Perhaps in a few weeks when the obvious adolescents are gone (off to the next new, shiny thing), we will be able to have meaningful, deep discusions.

 

OP, you have my sympathy. I really would post more in regards to your topic, but it would just get drowned out by the babble.

 

Suffice it to say, PoE=great story, horrible, let-us-re-invent-the-wheel-and-fail combat system and mechanics.

 

This is no BG&Co.

 

Cue the fanbois miasma.

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I don't agree with this guy, POE is far better than BG1 or BG2.


Yes i know, my english sux.

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The state of these forums...

 

Reminds me of Obsidian forums of yore.

 

Perhaps in a few weeks when the obvious adolescents are gone (off to the next new, shiny thing), we will be able to have meaningful, deep discusions.

 

OP, you have my sympathy. I really would post more in regards to your topic, but it would just get drowned out by the babble.

 

Suffice it to say, PoE=great story, horrible, let-us-re-invent-the-wheel-and-fail combat system and mechanics.

 

This is no BG&Co.

 

Cue the fanbois miasma.

 

First off, don't act like you've been around forever - you've had what? 20 posts? thats contributing a lot to the "deep" discussions that you've been having, doesnt it? (I dont want to make this a competition - clearly I would lose, with only like 120 or so, so I haven't been around all that long either. but the way you phrased that just made you come off like a d***. Which I'm sure was your intent anyway, so...nice "deep" discussion right there.)

 

Second, I think the OP was fine until he got to his 3rd post where he basically treated his opinion like fact and said BG is better. Period. Accept it. (not those exact words mind you, but essentially thats what he said.) He had a good point - it sucks his loading times were high (point 2, although I'm pretty sure thats a bug and will be fixed in the first patch, so its expected at release - wait for patches if you are going to complain about bugs). Yes, we all would've liked more companions - who wouldnt? But limited resources are what they are and they could only have 8. Does that make it a bad game? No. Should he have gotten harassed for his opinion - no. But theres no need to be so negative about an awesome game. Appreciate it for what it is - a throwback to the old days and hope for a better game in the future when Obsidian can provide more resources. If he wants to give constructive feedback, thats fine - but to just say o well I think BG is better so this is just trash is a bit....negative and unwelcome. Point 2 was bug-related and will probably be fixed, and point 1 was reasonable (maybe?) but couldn't be helped, but point 3 was just so subjective and opinion based and he stated it like fact. Of courses he's going to get retaliation. This is the internet. Quit pretending its brand new and that its unheard of for people to be harsh. 

 

But I'm just a "fanboi" so...my opinion is worth less than yours anyway so feel free to ignore it. But I'll continue to say this is all just my opinion, so don't take it as fact or anything.  :no:

Edited by Hellraiser789

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Don't know if you are the same Hellrazer from the NWN2 forums (and I don't really care either way).

 

Post count has little to do with much IMHO. I am a Kickstarter and Beta Tester.

 

Done with you now.

 

Wish there was a way to filter posts by posters *sigh*

 

As I mentioned OP, you have my sympathy.

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The writing and characters are better.

 

The combat is about as flawed and cheesy, having its own pros and cons.

 

Aesthetically it's much nicer looking, of course.

 

The setting IMO is more interesting and a welcome change from typical forgotten realms stuff.

 

 

My only gripe other than balance issues and bugs - which judging by the patch notes they're actually going to be fairly responsive to player concerns with - is that there's not more companion interactivity/reactivity.

 

What's there is good but it felt like there were many great opportunities for more of it. And multi-companion + PC conversations were few and far between. Perhaps this is due to the quality and how carefully they tied the companions in with the story though.

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Now here is a good post! I agree - the story and writing is better, hands down. I disagree about the setting, but that is subjective and nothing to be concerned about.

 

The characters, however...

 

Something is lacking. I don't know what it is, exactly. Are they too mediocre? Well designed as characters, yes, but not mechanically.

 

Nobody is screaming about any of them like they did with Minsc&Co, or Aribeth from NWN or Morrigan from DA:O. All one hears is "Well, so-and-so is nice/interesting/viable" but no real fan status.

 

I think that is what is missing.

Edited by WebShaman
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What I would like to see in the expansion is reactive party interaction. I want the conversation options with our companions to react to our classes, backgrounds, etc; I want Eder to react to a PC who is a Priest of Eothas, I want my cipher character to react with cipher mind-reading powers to Aloth's issues, etc.

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