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I`m not saying that I think the game is bad, let me repeat that because it doesn`t seem to have registered with everyone. Only a 10 to me means a perfect game

But It's not up to you to define metacritic's (or anyone else's) scale parameters. And talk about arrogance. You're bashing people (and calling them fanboys) because they're not using YOUR grading scale?

 

 

Hey, guess what. I gave Divinity: Original Sin a 10, not because I'm a Larian shill, but because even its flaws were awesome.

 

I haven't yet rated PoE, because I'm not done with it, but I can tell right now that I'll either end up giving it a 10, or else a 9. mainly because it totally nailed what it tried to do. It feels like one of the IE games. Obsidian promised nothing more. And ALL the IE games are 10s.

Edited by Stun
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It's good you are not a music criticist, you would rate any new music a 6 because it far worse than Mozart.

 

Besides, as it's been stated before, PoE is better than BG in some aspects, like story and dialogues.

 

All in ll, if you don't like being criticized, don't write critics...

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Now I just can't stop thinking about how awful the story in BG1 really is.

 

Instead of just staying the **** away from trouble (and specifically a not-so-subtle evil dude with a skull for a helmet and glowing eyes) you're all like "I just got orphaned - better fix the iron shortage now!".

 

The good stuff about the BG series was always the fun exploration and characterful NPCs.

 

BG2's main story had a pretty awful opening (completely saved by NPCs and Athkatla however), but eventually got better once you got to Spellhold. Specifically the constant nudging to save Imoen is very irritating. The main motivation for going to Spellhold instead of doing all the other fun stuff you can do is pretty much to hear more of David Warner's excellent voice acting.

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"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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I do not think it is an improvement over Baldur`s Gate at all quite frankly. In some cases it`s just not as good period. When I wrote a Metacritic review to this effect, where the flood of 10s is just beyond belief, I was subjected to a comical campaign of enraged fans who not only downvoted this review - fair enough really - but made a campaign of downvoting all my other reviews also. I have never experienced anything like it on MC, not even when I trashed a WoW expansion. It is quite amazing.

 

I've never used Metacritic, and based on that single data point I don't seem to be missing much.  You should be able to review and rank the game as you like.  If your views are in the minority it shouldn't be necessary for the majority to attack you; the game's composite score will still fall in line with the majority's views.  Trashing your reviews of other games is just childishness.

 

 

Anyway, just so I`ve said it, these are my three main reasons for not agreeing with the hype:

 

1: Lack of replayability. There are not enough companions for replays to have much to offer. Yes I know you can make your own party members. But I never liked to do that in the IE games. I prefer the immersion of recruiting NPCs and having party members with some sense of personality. And eight is just one playthrough and change as far as I can tell. The eight there are are good. That isn`t the problem. But the way I play these games I will never play a monk, rogue or barbarian at all because there aren`t any. Secondly it`s not open enough compared to Baldur`s Gate. Apart from Defiance Bay there`s only really ever one place you can go at any time, unless you want to be instantly killed of course. By contrast Baldur`s Gate had like 20 areas to choose between at any time and you could deliberately spend ages doing something completely irrelevant to the main quest. And you just can not in PoE.

 

Early on I lost one of the companions.  Later, I met a companion who - though interesting to me - did not really click with my main character (so I didn't recruit her).  The personal quest of one of my companions doesn't really seem to be progressing.  Another companion I invited to join me but then ended up just leaving in my stronghold to run quests and escorts.  So, at least for me, that's four companions that I effectively haven't really gotten to experience fully on this playthrough.  That will give me an incentive to play the game through at least one more time.  On the same note, there are sections of the game that I ended up skipping, because my character didn't feel a strong incentive to go adventure in those areas.  I don't seem to have suffered for skipping them, and they are another incentive to play through the game again differently.

 

I don't remember the exact quote, but I seem to remember one of the developers saying that roughly half of the content is optional.  So, really, how replayable the game is may depend somewhat on how much of a completionist you are.  If you do absolutely everything there is to do on your first playthough then the game may not seem very replayable because there is nothing new to see.  This is less a flaw with the game (because no matter how much content there is this same situation will exist) and more a flaw with compulsive completionism (in terms of how it kills the replayability of games).

 

 

2: Obscene loading times. There are just too many loading screens and they last for ages. At least 25 seconds is my experience and it just makes exploration a pain in the butt when it should be the best part of the game.

 

I haven't experienced long load times.  I have the game installed on a SSD and I have to refer to the chat log to finish reading the messages on the loading screen because the load finishes before I can finish reading them.  I suspect that this is not as much a performance failure of the game itself as it is a performance failure of certain types of hardware.

 

 

3: It is not better than Baldur`s Gate. And it should be considering that Baldur`s Gate is 17 years old.

 

It is understandable that people are comparing PoE to the IE games, since they are its inspiration, but it should not be necessary for PoE to be strictly better than them in order for it to be good.  Baldur's Gate (+ sequel + expansions) is an amazing game and big shoes for another game to fill.  There's a lot of room for a game to good with having to be better than BG.  Personally, I really like it so far, but I can't really say yet whether I like it more or less than BG.  I think I'll hold off on that comparison until after PoE has and expansion, and a sequel with an expansion, before I brave the waters of trying to make that sort of judgement.

 

Considering the fact that I'm a fan of this style of game, and the industry had gotten out of the business of making this sort of game, I'm just really happen to see another game like this made - even if my final opinion of it ends up being mediocre (which is unlikely, because as I said I really like it so far).  That's probably part of why people are reacting so negatively to your negativity.  We (fans of this style of game) want this game to be a success so that the industry will make more of them; some of us (the people trashing you) are probably just being overzealous in their desire to see the game succeed.  That doesn't justify their actions, however.

 

 

To me this takes the game from a 10 if these, in my opinion major, issues were not present to a 7, which was what I gave the game on metacritic when the campaign against me there started. A good game but very far from a classic. It is also not the best game in genre, which I think it should be to merit a 10. <snip> But just how is this game a 10 when BG is better in these respects by far? What is BG then? An 11? 12?

 

I don't think 7/10 is an unfair rating to give PoE (especially considering the fact that how one rates a game is very subjective).  I think I might rate it higher myself, but giving it a 7 isn't exactly trashing it, in my opinion.  As for BG, I wouldn't give even it a 10.  If we're talking about the whole series then I might go with 9.  Just Baldur's Gate with no expansion?  Honestly I might give that just a 7.

 

Anyway, the point of all this rambling is carry on expressing your views freely, play what you feel like playing, and don't let the masses get you down.

Edited by Emptiness
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@ OP

 

I'll echo what others have already said about your critique in that 2 of your 3 gripes come down to a matter of taste; and while you are certainly entitled to your opinion, so are  others in seeing greatness where you don't.

 

That said, I think the true reason for all the 'hype' has a lot more to do with a game style and theme that was deemed unworkable by large publishers succeeding so emphatically upon release.  PoE is very much in the tradition of the IE (and ToEE) style games that were considered beyond redemption.  Through Kickstarter, that model was resurrected, and now looks like it will make over 20 million dollars, spawning a new franchise.  It's a real thumb in the eye to large publishers and helps (along with certain other games) establish KS as a legitimate alternative model to large publishers.  It will be interesting to see how this will change the industry, because the implications are massive and could be paradigm shifting.  

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BG1: Let's see, do I use the short sword with a bonus to hit and damage, or the long sword with a one-number-higher bonus to hit and damage? Or maybe I should use the arrows with a bonus to hit and damage. I'm not sure.

PoE: Hmm. Mace with drain life or dagger with spellbind?

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1) Itemization is bland. Boots of speed and obsidian lamp figure were the two most exciting items I found in my playthrough. 

 

2) I'm sorry, but if you think this game's combat system is brilliant, then you are wrong. Try to play this game with 2 fighters, 2 rogues, 1 priest 1 mage (all custom made)on hard. You laugh, that's how easy it is. Only times you need to go back is when your hp is finally too low. So you can maybe get that "wow I made it all through the dungeon without resting" feeling. What a great feeling. Not.  The rest system is a ****ing joke and if you think it's good, then you are a bad influence for people who are after a challenge. If you fought one of the dragons at the end, tell me that was hard? What strategy did you implement? Yeah, that's right. No a whole lot of strategy. It's sublte, the difference between a challenging RPG and one that is not. But by all means, tell the devs how this is great, so you can play the game while you watch TV. Or tell your GF you did an entire dungeon without resting. Such kudos. 

 

3) Josh says no build is a crap build. Cool story. Thanks for making the most boring stat system I've ever seen. 2% more dps. Nice. 2% healing. Felt really exciting! Them percents!

 

4) NPCs sub par stat distribution. The only reason ever for doing a run with the premade companions is for the stories. After that, bye bye.

 

4) In the RPGs I enjoy, I feel ownership of my characters, I feel that they PROGRESS. Progression is key. The only ones I felt progressed a little in this game were my two rogues with their OP arbalests. My mage, sorry, I mean my CC-dude, was ok with his MUST have spells which changed the game entirely. I'll write down the few spells you need and you can forget about every other: Slicken, ice spell lvl 1, bewildering, confusion. Yep. That's it. My fighters just became a bit more tanky throughout the game. Maybe alot more, but really, they are boring. The stats they get are boring. It's not like I ever felt "oh wow now I can't wait to go hunt".

 

5) At least the old D&D BG1+2 forced you to actually give a **** about what monsters you were after. Immunities were needed and certain damaage types. That's right, maybe you could not even beat the content if you did not have the gear. MODERN DAY GAMING. **** gear: let every 5 year old kid on the block beat the content. It's a family game. Wuhu. Yeah, I pretty much changed zero point zero of my dmg types and gear throughout the game and won. I almost auto attacked half the game, while some certain encoutners I had to actually use some mage spells.

 

I love the music in this game and I think the areas and the story is quite nice. So my complaints are about the combat system, but I'm obviously fighting a war vs. people cruasde for this game's combat system. 

 

How do they up the difficulty on Path of the Damned? More mobs, and higher stats. Just like they will do in future content. Can't change a fail system, unless you redo it. Why was BG2 so great? Well, besides the quality on story / uniqe plots / dialogue etc. it used a table top RGP system which had been fine tuned for years by fans. Let's redefine RPG combat in a game which is supposed to give old schoolers some good fun. Nice. We really needed that. Hipsters. 

 

Go stalk the forums more, you 7-10k forum posters. Post on every god damn post, especially the moderators. Good thing you are so involved..... Let everyone know how fantastic the combat system is. How fantastic the pathing is. Happy Easter all, off on vacation here. Sadly, I won't do a replay, ever.

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I had fun figuring out how to get Mazzy and murder the black dragon before Mazzy spent all her proficiency pips on short swords.

 

Yeah I miss that a lot in PoE. Basicly, as almost all characters are tied to the main story, you can not really pick them up early if you want.

 

Like you, I enjoyed rushing the map to collect all my party members or get my stronghold in BG2 early. This was especially fun for those placed outside of Athkatla, like doing the De-Arnise quest right after visiting the slums or going into the planar sphere directly after leaving Irenicus dungeon to get Valygar.

 

... damn, okay, I agree, I miss at least ONE thing over BG2.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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In regard to subpar stats on NPCs, that was actually some of the fun in BG2 (and BG1).    Why would you want every NPC to be completely optimized?   They are in there for their personalities, stories, and all that other stuff.  Besides, it's actually a challege to get through a game with characters that are less than perfect.   In BG2, Minsc certainly wasn't the best fighter (though he had his perks), but I bet nearly everyone would take him because he was Minsc.   Khalid in BG1 was one that seemed to be either love or hate with the players, but he was pretty subpar as far as stats were concerned.   He was part of of my all-fighter (with a fighter/druid as an exception) party in that game.    I used to intentionally make PCs with gimped stats or classes that made absolutely no sense, and I even used a thief with no dexterity for the fun of it.     The fact that a person can make a custom party and ignore pre-made NPCs was probably partially for those who only want the most powerfully optimized build possible.

 

 

EDIT: Thought I would add that one of the funniest things I've read about using less-than-optimized characters is a person who went through Icewind Dale using nothing but level 1 gnomes.   He had a party of five (and later added a sixth) gnomes and chose to never level them up, instead making use of just about scroll, potion, and magic item available.   He started on insane and ended up on the easiest level by the end of the game.    From what I remember, he made use of one game feature in which a character cannot be one-shot to death so even his 4 HP gnome fighter could survive a smack from an ogre.    I wish I could remember where that story is.

Edited by TCJ
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Try to play this game with 2 fighters, 2 rogues, 1 priest 1 mage (all custom made)on hard. You laugh, that's how easy it is.

 

Playing the game on the intended (note that hard is meant as the "standard" setting for experienced RPG players ... I think they should have labeled it different) difficulty setting with a custom-made party for roflstomping everything. Slowclap. You're my hero.

 

Suggestion: try this again on PotD without a custom party.

 

 

YES, the game has balancing issues. But come on, this game is out for a week now. I expect to get some balancing patches over the next weeks that will improve some of the imba spells and talents.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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Sorry it was just too long to quote.

 

Cool story bro. Tell it again?

 

Seriously - you can't compare this game to BG2 at all. its meant as a low level campaign. Think BG1 and thats it. I really didn't think BG1 was that complicated or detailed. You didn't EVER need to change weapon types in BG1, and there wasnt a ton of magical equipment in BG1 (compared to BG2). Plus, it doesnt seem to surprise me that you can steam roll the game with custom made Adventurers after a little experience with the combat system - if you min-max them you can probably make them amazing at each of their roles. Guess what? I could do that in BG1 (and BG2 for that matter) just as easily (actually easier because you can literally do it from the beginning of the game). I don't know what to tell you about progression - if you don't like the level up system, how did you like the IE level up system...? seem pretty similar to me, maybe even more customization with talents and whatnot.

 

I'm not gonna say the combat is perfect, but I think you might be being a little harsh, but thats just me. Honestly thought it was an April Fools joke rant at first....

Edited by Hellraiser789
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People giving highest praises to BG/BG2 stories make me feel weird all the time. I just don't get how anybody could consider those well written. Consistent with lighthearted fantasy setting - by all means. Well written? Please.

 

Speaking of OP's negative MC experience, I'd guess it just overall tone of the review more than its actual content is what got the fans riled up. Then again, Metacritic IS a cesspit, so it's probably not such a big deal.

 

PoE obviously has its flaws (what doesn't?), but it does hit exactly what it was aiming for. Some more balancing and polishing, and PoE will truly shine. I've expected far worse outcome considering that Obs had to make lore and ruleset (which BG had already done in its development time) from scratch and a game itself on that base in 2,5 years for little more than 4 million dollars. It's amazing what Obsidian did accomplish with what they had. This is my personal reason to be hyped about PoE.

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People giving highest praises to BG/BG2 stories make me feel weird all the time. I just don't get how anybody could consider those well written. Consistent with lighthearted fantasy setting - by all means. Well written? Please.

 

Speaking of OP's negative MC experience, I'd guess it just overall tone of the review more than its actual content is what got the fans riled up. Then again, Metacritic IS a cesspit, so it's probably not such a big deal.

 

PoE obviously has its flaws (what doesn't?), but it does hit exactly what it was aiming for. Some more balancing and polishing, and PoE will truly shine. I've expected far worse outcome considering that Obs had to make lore and ruleset (which BG had already done in its development time) from scratch and a game itself on that base in 2,5 years for little more than 4 million dollars. It's amazing what Obsidian did accomplish with what they had. This is my personal reason to be hyped about PoE.

Well said on all counts.  

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People giving highest praises to BG/BG2 stories make me feel weird all the time. I just don't get how anybody could consider those well written. Consistent with lighthearted fantasy setting - by all means. Well written? Please.

 

Speaking of OP's negative MC experience, I'd guess it just overall tone of the review more than its actual content is what got the fans riled up. Then again, Metacritic IS a cesspit, so it's probably not such a big deal.

 

PoE obviously has its flaws (what doesn't?), but it does hit exactly what it was aiming for. Some more balancing and polishing, and PoE will truly shine. I've expected far worse outcome considering that Obs had to make lore and ruleset (which BG had already done in its development time) from scratch and a game itself on that base in 2,5 years for little more than 4 million dollars. It's amazing what Obsidian did accomplish with what they had. This is my personal reason to be hyped about PoE.

Well said on all counts.  

 

 

I mean, I don't get what he means by poorly written for BG/BG2. :no: Those are two of my all time favorite games, largely due to the setting, characters, and the story (so...the writing. Combat was great too though). Sure, I thought Imoen was a bit tacky and unnecessary (supposedly she was supposed to die instead - THAT would have been interesting!) and it mightve been a bit cliche (but what isnt? and cliche doesnt equal bad... although ToB mightve (?) been rushed. Seemed like it to me) but overall I thought it was amazing, especially considering the generally lower quality games we've gotten over the past years (IMO. The Dragon Age games, while good, just arent on the same level).

 

But I still respect his opinion. My brother would actually agree with him completely (although hes not really a fan of party-based RPGs anyway so...). Just saying why I like the BG games so much is all.  :no:

Edited by Hellraiser789
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BG2 writing is like in all BioWare games before and since: shallow, generally between mediocre and bad, with a few memorable high points, and the slightly-tragic comic relief character(s) best of the bunch. Jan Jansen's writing is excellent, Keldorn's is passable, everybody else's is eminently forgettable unless it's grating (Minsc). 

 

I've learned to really really love BG2, but it's despite the writing, not because of it, Jan Jansen notwithstanding. Its strength is that it's so incredibly big and has so much stuff in it that you can basically set your own objectives, select the way you want to go after them, and take off. At least my main problem with it was that it took me many, many, many attempts before I knew where everything is so I could actually start doing it. Until then it just felt that it was repeatedly kicking me in the groin for no good reason. I admire the people who got into it from the start; I'm not among them.

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I mean, I don't get what he means by poorly written for BG/BG2. no.gif Those are two of my all time favorite games, largely due to the setting, characters, and the story (so...the writing. Combat was great too though). Sure, I thought Imoen was a bit tacky and unnecessary (supposedly she was supposed to die instead - THAT would have been interesting!) and it mightve been a bit cliche (but what isnt? and cliche doesnt equal bad... although ToB mightve (?) been rushed. Seemed like it to me) but overall I thought it was amazing, especially considering the generally lower quality games we've gotten over the past years (IMO. The Dragon Age games, while good, just arent on the same level).

PrimeJunta said basically all my thoughts on the topic. I'm glad you found BG's story good, though. :) Hope you'll like PoE's as much or even more.

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BG2 writing is like in all BioWare games before and since: shallow, generally between mediocre and bad, with a few memorable high points, and the slightly-tragic comic relief character(s) best of the bunch. Jan Jansen's writing is excellent, Keldorn's is passable, everybody else's is eminently forgettable unless it's grating (Minsc). 

 

I've learned to really really love BG2, but it's despite the writing, not because of it, Jan Jansen notwithstanding. Its strength is that it's so incredibly big and has so much stuff in it that you can basically set your own objectives, select the way you want to go after them, and take off. At least my main problem with it was that it took me many, many, many attempts before I knew where everything is so I could actually start doing it. Until then it just felt that it was repeatedly kicking me in the groin for no good reason. I admire the people who got into it from the start; I'm not among them.

 

Huh, I honestly just loved everything about it. Especially all the characters, although a couple of them did get on my nerves every once in a while. (Kinda want to go back and play the BG games all over again now....). Idk, i didn't find the story that shallow, although I am a sucker for cliche stuff. Although, I will admit, replayability was a little low for me - I liked making new games, but to play through the entire game just took forever (competitionist at heart...) and really there werent any major choices that really made a difference in the actually storyline so.... after a good playthrough and an evil playthrough, I usually stopped playing for awhile, although it would always draw me back simply because I could never find anything better. Although this is all just my opinion and I realize not everyone's experience was similar to my own.

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Personally I don't understand how people can say the combat in BG was better. It was naff. Built on the D&D 2.5 system where the majority classes had no combat options beyond select all and attack and the AI would just tangle up in a huge mass. Where you could cheese most battles with kiting.

 

No the combat in PoE wasn't perfect. But its a first edition RPG system. It needs play and reiteration.

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I feel like PoE is a missed opportunity here's why:

 

No combat XP. So you just murdered a very hard mob for the first time after 10 re-tries and you expect to hear DING? Well too facken bad, you get an imaginary pat on the back.

 

Seriously, if people want a game that rewards them for dialogue choices and possibly stealth let them play an adventure game then.

 

No legendary loot. I haven't encountered any loot worth remembering. What's up with that? BG2 had the most excellent and exciting loot. A singing sword? Wow, bring stuff like that back. Items in PoE are incredibly bland. 

 

Weak NPCs. Stat wise and personality wise.

 

If anything, PoE will increase the sales of BG2 and Planescape. I for one intend to replay these games rather than replay PoE. I mean its not bad game just a missed opportunity to mimic or supercede the classics. 

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If the story has a "love to hate" villain whom you just gotta put down for all the trouble he brought you personally - it's a good story. And that son of a bitch Irenicus is still one of the best in my books. And Bioware always knows how make the journey more interesting with memorable companions. So, yes, BG series is still one of the best rpgs out there and I can't take trolls who hate on it seriously. After playing PoE I've high hopes for the sequel, because for me it felt like less refined BG1 with a promise of vast improvements of BG2.

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The biggest enemy PoE has to face is our nostalgia of the IE games. Since (I guess) we're mainly older people that played these games when we were young it's really hard for a game 15 years later to beat the "wow" factor that BG1 gave us when we first played it back then.

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The biggest enemy PoE has to face is our nostalgia of the IE games. Since (I guess) we're mainly older people that played these games when we were young it's really hard for a game 15 years later to beat the "wow" factor that BG1 gave us when we first played it back then.

As a player who played EE versions of BG series and IWD just recently I can tell you it's not nostalgia, they're just that bloody good and worthy of occasional replays. Still not sure about PoE replayability though.

Edited by Aramintai
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