Any penalty to using Shields for Wizard?

[limaxophobiacq]

Beside not being able to use implements (which isn't really a big deal on higher levels when low-level spells become per-encounter so implements are less usefull) is there any penalty to recovery or spell accuracy from using a shield or can I use hatchet + large shield + weapon and shield style on a wizard for a bit more survivability and still cast spells as well as if my hands were empty?

[Fimconte]

Not really, but you're giving up a lot of early game dps for very little gain.  
Blast powered Implements put out decent damage. 

[limaxophobiacq]

IDK, it's like 30+ deflection and reflex with a good shield and I can still use implements early game and just not sink any talents into them.

[Fimconte]

Yes, but your wizard should be in the back, never getting hit anyway,
there's no reason to not have him do at least some dps with Blast powered Scepters.  

Although since you're talking 30+ deflect shields,  
I assume you're talking late-game, in which case you can spam low level spells, so it might be worth it.  
 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Fimconte

[Luckmann]

A few things:

1. No, there is no penalty to using a shield as a wizard. No recovery penalty or spell casting penalty of any kind.
2. With most shields, you lose Accuracy, which is very valuable for wizards (and other spellcasters) because it is very hard for them to gain +Accuracy on their spells.
3. Wizards are pathetic in melee. No ifs or buts of whens or whatevers. They're terrible.
4. All ranged weapons are two-handed, for some really odd, likely "balance" (sic) reason.

But yeah, you could use a shield, no problems. The game has some issues with things, but the way it's built, so open, is really good.

[ErlKing]

I guess its not bad to have hatchet + large shield in second slot as some kind of Arcane Vail alternative. Use bow/gun in most cases and switch to hatchet+shield if suddenly surrounded/flanked as emergency option.

[limaxophobiacq]

A few things:

1. No, there is no penalty to using a shield as a wizard. No recovery penalty or spell casting penalty of any kind.
2. With most shields, you lose Accuracy, which is very valuable for wizards (and other spellcasters) because it is very hard for them to gain +Accuracy on their spells.
3. Wizards are pathetic in melee. No ifs or buts of whens or whatevers. They're terrible.
4. All ranged weapons are two-handed, for some really odd, likely "balance" (sic) reason.

But yeah, you could use a shield, no problems. The game has some issues with things, but the way it's built, so open, is really good.

 

Oh I didn't think shields affected spell accuracy. I guess enchanted small shields would do. I don't mean to use it to actually try to fight in melee with the wizard, just to be slightly less squishy while casting and for the reflex save bonus.

 

Edit: And yeah all this is for high level when you can cast 1st/2nd level spells per-encounter and shields give bigger bonuses, probaby not worth it early levels at all.

Edited April 1, 2015 by limaxophobiacq

[Heijoushin]

A few things:

1. No, there is no penalty to using a shield as a wizard. No recovery penalty or spell casting penalty of any kind.
2. With most shields, you lose Accuracy, which is very valuable for wizards (and other spellcasters) because it is very hard for them to gain +Accuracy on their spells.
3. Wizards are pathetic in melee. No ifs or buts of whens or whatevers. They're terrible.
4. All ranged weapons are two-handed, for some really odd, likely "balance" (sic) reason.

But yeah, you could use a shield, no problems. The game has some issues with things, but the way it's built, so open, is really good.

 

I realize they're terrible at melee, but just for the purposes of keeping them alive in a bad situation, I think they could potentially have decent deflection with the correct build? (for example, shields + arcane veil + other gimmicks)

Edited April 1, 2015 by Heijoushin

[Epsilon Rose]

 

A few things:

1. No, there is no penalty to using a shield as a wizard. No recovery penalty or spell casting penalty of any kind.
2. With most shields, you lose Accuracy, which is very valuable for wizards (and other spellcasters) because it is very hard for them to gain +Accuracy on their spells.
3. Wizards are pathetic in melee. No ifs or buts of whens or whatevers. They're terrible.
4. All ranged weapons are two-handed, for some really odd, likely "balance" (sic) reason.

But yeah, you could use a shield, no problems. The game has some issues with things, but the way it's built, so open, is really good.

 

Oh I didn't think shields affected spell accuracy. I guess enchanted small shields would do. I don't mean to use it to actually try to fight in melee with the wizard, just to be slightly less squishy while casting and for the reflex save bonus.

 

Edit: And yeah all this is for high level when you can cast 1st/2nd level spells per-encounter and shields give bigger bonuses, probaby not worth it early levels at all.

 

I think I heard they use the accuracy from your main weapon. On that note, would a +acc weapon be worth looking at for wizards?

[ErlKing]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/73874-how-is-spell-accuracy-determined/

 

Here it is.

[limaxophobiacq]

 

 

A few things:

1. No, there is no penalty to using a shield as a wizard. No recovery penalty or spell casting penalty of any kind.
2. With most shields, you lose Accuracy, which is very valuable for wizards (and other spellcasters) because it is very hard for them to gain +Accuracy on their spells.
3. Wizards are pathetic in melee. No ifs or buts of whens or whatevers. They're terrible.
4. All ranged weapons are two-handed, for some really odd, likely "balance" (sic) reason.

But yeah, you could use a shield, no problems. The game has some issues with things, but the way it's built, so open, is really good.

 

Oh I didn't think shields affected spell accuracy. I guess enchanted small shields would do. I don't mean to use it to actually try to fight in melee with the wizard, just to be slightly less squishy while casting and for the reflex save bonus.

 

Edit: And yeah all this is for high level when you can cast 1st/2nd level spells per-encounter and shields give bigger bonuses, probaby not worth it early levels at all.

 

I think I heard they use the accuracy from your main weapon. On that note, would a +acc weapon be worth looking at for wizards?

 

 

I just tried actually, but they dont seem to get more accurate from using a spear or rapier at least. Wood Elf bonus and the paladin accuracy aura OTOH do affect it.

[Silvist]

I used a shield prior to getting another good weapon to offhand.  If you get enough accuracy from your gear/talents, you can offset the shield penalty.  Especially once you get higher level.

 

Wizards can be in the front as well as the back.  The biggest disadvantage the wizard has is low stam/hp and defense like deflection/reflex/etc.  Though you have spells to compensate this.  Unless you build it properly, its pretty hard to be the main tank for your party (due to having to rest).  I play my wizard more like a rogue, in terms of engaging from the flank.  I let my main tank go in first to draw as many mobs to him as possible.

 

The reason being in the back is not always wise for a wizard is due to some spells that have small ranges (like touch attack spells), and arcane assault.  

 

There's been a couple instances in my current play through where my tank went down during a boss fight (or huge pack of mobs).  My wizard stepped up using full buffs, and lasted just fine.  You just have to make sure you keep an eye on your buffs at all times.  The biggest disadvantage to wizard period is your limited spells per rest.  Arcane assault is something I use prior to even using a basic spells for damage.

 

I always have a wand/scepter for my weapon swap, so in case I exhaust my spells...I can safely go back to ranged dps.  Some mobs in this game are really tough to melee, especially when they explode lol.  So regardless of your class its probably wise to always have a ranged weapon.

[Mungri]

Wizards in the front ... Nope.

 

Id rather just give em penetrating blast and let them spam attacks with the fine wand found early in the game. I might try out dangerous implements too.

[Hatred]

The negative accuracy penalty for shields is applied directly to your spell accuracy. Do not equip shields on your wizard unless they are of the small variety or you are ok with your spells missing. I have shields (small) in the alternative weapon slots for all of my casters in case they get stuck in melee somehow. It doesnt happen that often but its worth carrying around a small shield (of quality if possible) with a hatchet in my personal opinion. Just don't try and do most of your fighting that way. Also if you leave auto attack on it is dangerous to have your squishies using shields ..

[Mungri]

My wizard has 3 resolve and 3 perception now. I keep him the hell away from mobs and be is fine.

[Silvist]

If the negative penalty from shields applies to spells, then the same can be said about the reverse.  Meaning, weapons that have accuracy bonuses also apply to spells as well.  You can also use traits to boost up accuracy.  Otherwise, talents that are modular that give -acc, but boost your dmg would be useless.  

 

Everyone has a right to play the wizard as they see fit; after all this is an "rpg".  If you want to talk about what's "optimal", that would depend on your build.

 

I also forgot to mention that there are many spells that are cone or line; making it even more difficult to utilize if you are behind all of your party members.  Also, bows and guns seem to have alot longer range than wands and scepters/staves.  Meaning the wizard will move in front of those users regardless.

[Elvarein]

Also be creative my good sir. Some of the wizards best spells need him to be in close range and there is that level 6 spell that kinda requries the wizard to be close in. So for instance:

 

*Situational

 

1st Level spells

Eldritch Aim – Increases the caster's Accuracy.

Fleet Feet – Empowers the target with unnatural speed, increasing their Movement Rate.

Wizard's Double – Creates a duplicate of the caster to distract enemies, granting the caster a high Deflection bonus against a single attack.

Spirit Shield – Surrounds the caster with a shield of spirit energy, granting an increased Damage Threshold and a Concentration bonus.

* Thrust of Tattered Veils – A quick strike of Crushing force, dealing little damage but having a high chance to disrupt enemy spellcasters.

 

2nd Level spells

Bewildering Spectacle – Enemies in the area become confused.

Bulwark Against The Elements – increases the caster's damage threshold for burn, freeze, corrode and shock.

Merciless Gaze – Increases critical hit chance.

*Mirrored Image – Increases Deflection of the caster but the deflection bonus is decreased with each received hit.

 

3rd Level spells

Concelhaut's Draining Touch – The caster's hand becomes a toxic parasite causing corrosive damage to the target, weakening it and leaching a portion of its stamina.

Deleterious Alacrity of Motion – The wizard will attack faster, but will also suffer stamina damage during the duration.

Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage – Targets near caster are Sickened and Terrified by the wizard's horrifying appearance.

Llengrath's Displaced Image – Increases deflection and reflexes of the caster.

*Expose Vulnerabilities – Reduces the damage threshold and concentration of the target.

 

4th Level spells

Confusion – Confuses all enemies in the area.

Fire Shield – Increases the freeze damage threshold of the caster and inflicts burn damage to any enemy that hits the caster.

Ironskin – increases the caster's damage threshold for 10 attacks.

*Essential Phantom – Summons a ghostly double of the caster that fights with its bare hands, doing Shock damage. Other than the appearance of the caster, it shares no other properties.

*Dimensional Shift – The caster and one ally are able to immediately switch locations, leaving a shockwave between them. Anyone caught in-between may be briefly Stunned.

 

5th Spell Level

Blast of Frost – Creates a bitter surge of ice and freezing cold air, inflicting Freeze damage on anyone caught in the conical area of effect.

Llengrath's Safeguard – An insidious magical contingency activates when the caster hits 50% Stamina. He or she immediately knocks all immediately close enemies prone while gaining a Damage Threshold and Defense bonus for a short time.

Torrent of Flame – Instantiates a terrifying inferno of flame around the caster, inflicting Burn damage on everyone nearby.

 

6th Spell Level

Citzal's Martial Power – Caster temporarily sacrifices arcane power for martial might. Wizard gains bonuses to Deflection, Accuracy, Might, Constitution and Dexterity, but becomes unable to cast spells or switch grimoires for the duration of the spell.

Gaze of the Adragan – Gives the caster the mystifying gaze of the adra creature that provides the spell's namesake, Petrifying enemies within the area of effect.

Minoletta's Precisely Piercing Burst – Creates a burst of of deadly force around the caster, causing any enemies in the immediate vicinity to take Pierce damage - bypassing their Damage Threshold.

Arcane Reflection – Creates a field of arcane energy around the caster, reflecting hostile targeted spells up to 5th level back at their casters (for a total of 15 spell levels).

*Death Ring – Calls a black ring of necrotic energy into being that spreads out in all directions, causing Corrode damage to everything it touches and potentially destroying those with low Stamina.

 

And viola, suddenly some of the spells become that much more useful if you build for a melee type wizard.

[Kakudou]

Hey,

 

This post really give me the feeling that i need to play a MeleeWizard. Cause we can, and that could be fun.

 

I've some difficulties to find a build that can help me playing that. 

I reroll a lot until the bear cave (hard/expert) to try to find the best combination i can find. But i've always been bad at theorycrafting, and optimize a char has never been my priority.

 

But for this time, the feelings isn't enough, i think i need help.

 

The best thing i've done so far is:

Race: MoonGodLike

 

Mig 10 -> i want to spell damage

Con 3 -> even with 18 if i really get engage it can't help much (and with spell per rest, i need to sleep alot)

Dex 15 -> speed cast/action, i don't want to feel asleep during a fight, and i can't handle long fight.

Per/Res 16 -> Deflect

Int 18 -> i'm wizard after all.

 

With Calisca armor ,hatchet, shield, and "Weapon and Shield".

 

I'm actually just in front of the two bears, without buff i've:

Health 95

Endurance 32

Accuracy 19 

Deflect 48

Fortitude 15

Reflexe 68

Will 56

 

So with Wizard Double and Fan of Flame, i can do bears if RNGod are with me:

- Engage Arbalest.

- Fan of Flame (small bear down or one hit and down).

- Wizard Double (allow me to survive one big hit from the last bear).

- Fan of Flame.

- Try anything i can and pray.

 

I've plan a little my futur i know which talent i should try (arcane veil..etc)

With the previous post i know which spell could be really usefull.

Then Scroll scroll scroll until i get spell/encounter.

But i feel i miss something important.

 

I don't want to be the tank of the team, i'm gonna use Aloth for CC, i just want to output some damage and survivability.

And, later, replay this build in solo game.

So i need to survive few hit, but not drop my might and dps too much...

 

Any tips are welcome.

[Odd Hermit]

Hatchet + Small Shield is my caster set-up for when I'm not shoosting with arbalest. No accuracy penalty from small shield so it's nice to have one.

 

Total that's +13 deflection, which you absolutely should be swapping to if a caster ever has to deal with a melee on him. It seems to be instant swapping, there's just a recovery period before you can attack/act again. So swap before that melee enemy actually reaches striking distance when possible.

 

 

 

Hey,

 

This post really give me the feeling that i need to play a MeleeWizard. Cause we can, and that could be fun.

 

I've some difficulties to find a build that can help me playing that.

 

Turn difficulty down to normal or easy. There is no build that will make it good currently. You'll be spending most of your spells per rest being a very sub-par fighter temporarily, and they can't be caster before combat starts either so... it's bad, all there is to it.

[Voss]

If the negative penalty from shields applies to spells, then the same can be said about the reverse. Meaning, weapons that have accuracy bonuses also apply to spells as well. You can also use traits to boost up accuracy. Otherwise, talents that are modular that give -acc, but boost your dmg would be.

That isn't how the system works, so it is not true in reverse. The 'main hand accuracy' that is shown is a specific value with some modifiers worked in (shields, weapon accuracy, some talents), but not others (notably marksman, wood elf talent and other cicumstantial ones). But main hand accuracy is not your base accuracy, which shields modify but spears and daggers don't.

 

Tl; dr- check the log for the actual acc on spells with shields and without, and don't forget the acc mod of the spell itself is included. Subtract that, and you can see what your real acc is.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Voss