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Thought/suggestion/request - Traps/secrets detactable out of sneak


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So im playing the game right now on easy obviously I have no use for sneaking playing with 3 fighters ((tanks)) and 3 ranged ((rangers using bears)) so basically 6 tanks
ive come to the realisation I don't need to sneak around at all so as a suggestion is it possible to have traps discoverable without needing to sneak around maybe if we can get survival high enough ? its just a thought
 

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I agree, crawling around whole map just to find hidden items is annoying, search should work passively as it was in NWN

Of course it is annoying. That's why they are Hidden, because you should not be crawling the whole map... These new players, they want to pick everything and pick it easily. "No encumbrance, no secrets, fast mode..." 

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Sneaking, how could this possibly be a problem I cannot fathom. It supposed to be an annoyance as finding secrets should takes effort (time), intuition (toggling sneak where you might think something could be hidden) and luck. That is what we expects from secrets, otherwise they are not.

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These new players, they want to pick everything and pick it easily. "No encumbrance, no secrets, fast mode..." 

 

 

 

 

LOL... "These new players". I've been gaming for over thirty years, and the sneak-to-find mechanic annoys the hell out of me. I'm also of the "no encumbrance please" mentality. Stop demeaning people simply because your opinion differs.

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  1. You don't need to find every single secret in the game. It balances very nicely without you ever sneaking your way through every location. There's absolutely no reason to sneak everywhere.

Noone is forcing you to use sneaking. Just enjoy the game instead of doing what you don't like.

There are secret end hidden objects that don't require you to use sneaking. Best example would be Scepter in Ondra's Gift.

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There will eventually be a mod to fix this. For me this is similar to the dreaded suggestion about repairing equipment, it's a chore and a time sink. Such mechanics are good in turn based games, which PoE is not. D:OS handled this better.

Derpdragon of the Obsidian Order

Derpdragons everywhere. I like spears.

 

No sleep for the Watcher... because he was busy playing Pillars of Eternity instead.

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  1. You don't need to find every single secret in the game. It balances very nicely without you ever sneaking your way through every location. There's absolutely no reason to sneak everywhere.
  2. Noone is forcing you to use sneaking. Just enjoy the game instead of doing what you don't like.
  3. There are secret end hidden objects that don't require you to use sneaking. Best example would be Scepter in Ondra's Gift.

 

 

I think you're missing the point.

 

The issue is that actually, they are being forced to use sneaking, because they want to find secrets. It's that simple - you can argue that forcing sneaking is fine (and I would agree), but it's illogical to claim no-one is forcing them to, because they are. There's no way to find the vast majority of hidden things without it.

 

Personally I don't have a problem with it, esp. because there's the speed-up mode, but I do think it would have been nice if you could spot some stuff without sneaking, if your abilities were high enough, because I often find I have to backtrack through an area because I realize I wasn't sneaking, and I'm fairly sure there was some hidden stuff (usually correct).

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I´m also a long time RPG gamer and I find the sneak-to-find-secrets pretty annoying.

 

The secrets are there to be found, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered including those. But the mechanics to find them means you have to crawl through the whole game. That's not fun for me and, yes, I want to find them all.

 

What should happen is, if a character has high enough perception, he should say something vague like "Something's odd here" around an area with a secret, and only then you would need to sneak to find the exact location of the secret. IIRC, I think M&M11 worked like that.

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If I want to find everything on a map I just equip (I am playing with a rogue) some boots that give +3 movement speed or drank a potion that does the same (before I found the boots) and my character moves at the same speed as if he wasn't sneaking... the rest of the party can follow at slower speed or just wait somewhere, if there is enemies I just walk a bit back, quit sneak mode and move my entire party there fast, the maps are not that big so it takes no time at all to search them doing this  :shrugz: .

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I agree, having to move in scouting mode+double speed all the time to not miss anything is highly annoying. Let hidden switches& containers be detectable in normal mode, and leave scouting mode for traps & sneaking. Might be a good idea to use stealth instead of mechanics for detection as well, cause right now stealth is rarely useful imo. Mechanics would still be needed to pick locks and disarm traps.

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These new players, they want to pick everything and pick it easily. "No encumbrance, no secrets, fast mode..." 

 

 

 

 

LOL... "These new players". I've been gaming for over thirty years, and the sneak-to-find mechanic annoys the hell out of me. I'm also of the "no encumbrance please" mentality. Stop demeaning people simply because your opinion differs.

 

 

Sorry but I cant take this kind of suggestion seriously. Searching for secrets in this game is one of the most old-school RPG stuf ion the game. I remember hidding stuff for my players and then they just said "this corner is too weird, I will throw a die for a secrets right here". To ask "Make the secrets not secret" is pretty lame. Even if you are a player who loves to loot (ala Diablo) I would think you are enough experimented to know that picking everything in the game should cost you some extra effort, like this guy said:

 

  

Sneaking, how could this possibly be a problem I cannot fathom. It supposed to be an annoyance as finding secrets should takes effort (time), intuition (toggling sneak where you might think something could be hidden) and luck. That is what we expects from secrets, otherwise they are not.

 

 

 

But they whole point is

 

 

 

Noone is forcing you to use sneaking. Just enjoy the game instead of doing what you don't like.

 

 

This.

 

 

To the guy who said 

 

 

 

  1. You don't need to find every single secret in the game. It balances very nicely without you ever sneaking your way through every location. There's absolutely no reason to sneak everywhere.
  2. Noone is forcing you to use sneaking. Just enjoy the game instead of doing what you don't like.
  3. There are secret end hidden objects that don't require you to use sneaking. Best example would be Scepter in Ondra's Gift.

 

 

I think you're missing the point.

 

The issue is that actually, they are being forced to use sneaking, because they want to find secrets. It's that simple - you can argue that forcing sneaking is fine (and I would agree), but it's illogical to claim no-one is forcing them to, because they are. There's no way to find the vast majority of hidden things without it.

 

Personally I don't have a problem with it, esp. because there's the speed-up mode, but I do think it would have been nice if you could spot some stuff without sneaking, if your abilities were high enough, because I often find I have to backtrack through an area because I realize I wasn't sneaking, and I'm fairly sure there was some hidden stuff (usually correct).

 

 

Well, if you say "they are being FORCED because THEY WANT" you know you are wrong. If they want they are not being forced, pretty illogical sentence. "

 There's no way to find the vast majority of hidden things without it." Well, that's the big idea. You must take decisions. 

 

if your abilities were high enough, Power gamer much? A bit of roleplaying will not hurt you. 

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If you find secrets without doing anything, they aren't secrets, right? You might as well just have them be normal containers. Traps too. You might as well get rid of them.

 

"I play a very specific way and I would like the game to be changed to make it a bit easier" usually ends up breaking a lot of different things for different people.

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Sorry but I cant take this kind of suggestion seriously. Searching for secrets in this game is one of the most old-school RPG stuf ion the game. I remember hidding stuff for my players and then they just said "this corner is too weird, I will throw a die for a secrets right here". To ask "Make the secrets not secret" is pretty lame. Even if you are a player who loves to loot (ala Diablo) I would think you are enough experimented to know that picking everything in the game should cost you some extra effort, like this guy said:

 

It might have worked if it had some drawback, say if the npcs were not happy with you sneaking around their houses, and guards were suspicious of you sneaking along the street full of people. "Maybe he is out to rob someone, better take him for questioning". But as it is there is no reason why you wouldn't want to search for secrets 24/7. So the only "effort" you gotta make is to press "sneak" key and "double speed" key while ignoring the fact that it looks silly and is immersion breaking.

If you find secrets without doing anything, they aren't secrets, right? You might as well just have them be normal containers. Traps too. You might as well get rid of them.

The need for having sufficient mechanics to find the secret would still be there.

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 The thing is that it is not just "sneaking" mode, it is called "scouting" mode which implies that it is more focused on searching and exploring than keeping oneself hidden.

 I understand that it is frustrating for some people because it takes more time than just run around and find everything, but let's be honest if someone hides a diamond in a hole on the ground and then makes it look like nothing got disturbed, one doesn't notice it there while running near it. One would have to be actively looking for something suspicious, and that means move slower.

 Also let's be honest, the hidden things are usually just gems, potions, ingredients and other not really rare or valuable things with a few exceptions and even those exceptions are not powerful items or anything that I would lose sleep for not getting.

 Again I say, just use some movement speed potion or when you find it equip your scout with some boots of movement, even while in scouting mode he/she will move at the same speed as not in scout mode. Use the tools that the game offers to overcome the limitations it also imposes on you, if one enemy has a very strong defense against slashing and you deal almost no damage to it because all of your party uses slashing weapons, will you come by and say it is bad game design or will you equip a different damage type weapon and deal with it easier?

The maps are not that big at all, if one can't spend a few minutes more searching a few maps then do not do it, just continue playing the game, you will not need whatever it is hiding in there to beat the game or even just to make you stronger.

 IIRC in Baldur's gate games if one would use the sneak and detect secret doors skills at the same time, the character would move so slow it would take almost 20 minutes just to explore a bit of the map even more if that character was encumbered. I am so grateful that in PoE that does not happen.

 

PS: Use boots of speed and potions of speed and fast mode!

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I personally think it makes sense as is, and after many frustrating years of not being able to both simultaneously in the IE games, I welcome the concept. After all, when I go running around the streets of Brooklyn, I certainly can't spot the many secrets I know are there! It takes a certain amount of focus impossible to reach at that speed. They even gave us a fast mode to avoid having to crawl around the maps, even though they aren't that large. That said, I guess I don't have an issue with a checkbox I would never use. I'm all for options, as long as they don't chew up a huge chunk of the devs' time.

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  • 1 month later...

 

Sorry but I cant take this kind of suggestion seriously. Searching for secrets in this game is one of the most old-school RPG stuf ion the game. I remember hidding stuff for my players and then they just said "this corner is too weird, I will throw a die for a secrets right here". To ask "Make the secrets not secret" is pretty lame. Even if you are a player who loves to loot (ala Diablo) I would think you are enough experimented to know that picking everything in the game should cost you some extra effort, like this guy said:

 

It might have worked if it had some drawback, say if the npcs were not happy with you sneaking around their houses, and guards were suspicious of you sneaking along the street full of people. "Maybe he is out to rob someone, better take him for questioning". But as it is there is no reason why you wouldn't want to search for secrets 24/7. So the only "effort" you gotta make is to press "sneak" key and "double speed" key while ignoring the fact that it looks silly and is immersion breaking.

If you find secrets without doing anything, they aren't secrets, right? You might as well just have them be normal containers. Traps too. You might as well get rid of them.

The need for having sufficient mechanics to find the secret would still be there.

 

The DRAWBACK is the time spent in that and you are complaining about it!!..... wow, these guys.. that's exactly why you should not search 24/7 and that's exactly the point you are not seeing. 

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