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Gairnulf

The main things that bug me so far

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Some of this stuff I've mentioned before, and is my confirmed worries from before the release. Other is something that's made an impression on me while playing the full game.

  • Economy - getting too rich too soon is a thing. I'm intentionally not using the Stash and this has allowed me to avoid picking up merely somewhere around 1000cp worth of loot. I'm being mostly thorough with looting, as much as my characters' inventories allow, and I refrain from stealing from those containers which are not marked by a red mouse pointer, yet it wouldn't make sense in a roleplay sense to steal from them. And still I've got a bit over 5000cp for 15hrs of playing (not taken the stronghold yet)
  • Stash/Item weight/Encumbrance - needs added complexity to feel less like a vacuum-cleaner sim. The Stash is a mess functionality- and design-wise, among many exmaples - it's completely possible to accidentally send stuff you want to use into your stash while in the wilderness, and then be unable to get it out of the stash until you return to town. This is dumb as heck. Before someone comes and tries to be smart - no I can't turn stash accessible everywhere because 1) I play on Expert and 2) it defeats the purpose of restricting stash in the first place if you have to enable it because of technical reasons born out of a bad design decision.
  • UI
    • markers on map, it's important guise
    • Make tab key highlight the destination markers when you've sent your characters to a location, in addition to displaying markers for selected party memebers
  • Stealth on party member level
  • Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance
  • Crafting/enchanting - shouldn't be possible everywhere, at specific smiths and for a price would be nice
  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.
  • Stronghold - can't comment on this one yet, but from what I read about it, it will come up soon.
Edited by Gairnulf

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Oh, and there is the system of coinage too.

 

I mentioned during the beta that if there were money changers or exchange rates that had commision, this would have made sense. If you're going to create a complex system of coinage for the sake of complexity (and immersion), at least make it really complex, and also don't shower the player with money (by giving him an infinite inventory and a vacuum cleaner button).

 

Right now, the only effect is that you don't know exactly how much money you are getting. Actually there should be a table in the almanac. I'll take a look

...

Dyrwoodan coins

1 golden duc = 12 pands

 

Vailian coins

1 silve lusce = 3 pands

1 suole = 9 pands

1 oble = 18 pands

 

Glanfathan coins

1 awld = 2 pands

1 enîach (an adra coin) = 60 pands

 

Aedyrian coins

1 skeyt = 1 pand

1 fenning = 6 pands

1 gold scelling (pronounced 'shelling') = 12 pands


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  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.

 

That's what I keep saying, but everyone always poo-poos me when I say it and then they start talking about all this weird stuff Obsidian said about Might representing your "soul power" and so it makes perfect sense that damage from guns and spells and your ability to intimidate people and bend iron bars should all be tied to one stat, and I mostly tune it out and imagine if Pillars was just Dragonball Z.

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I think of might as combat prowess in general, a character doesn't have to be physically strong to be powerful in combat.

 

ex. you can have a mighty army, that doesn't mean the army has big muscles.

 

I do agree the economy needs work, right now it feels too easy to make gold and not enough to spend it on, I'm not sure the fault though is the stash system or just the overwhelming amount of "trash" loot.

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- Shops in Defiance Bay work 24/7. Some people call this convenient. But some people also call 'respec' convenient. I call it immersion breaking.

 

I also call immersion breaking being greeted with "The young woman stands by the cart, watching the crowd with large, bright eyes that focus on you as you approach." in the middle of the <lovely> night!


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Might means something like intensity or agresiveness (think Joe Pesci...No muscles, big damages). Constitution and athletic skills allow you to break iron bars, not might.  It works fine for me. A good fighter may have poor might, no problem, it depends of what he wants to do.

 

I like this system of attributes and skills. It allows a lot of variations in the same classe.

 

And at the end, the attributes are not so important in terms of game factors (far far less than with D&D)

Edited by crabe

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-- Backer NPCs, aka "Zero interactivity guaranteed. No need to click". Duh.


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Might means something like intensity or agresiveness (think Joe Pesci...No muscles, big damages). Constitution and athletic skills allow you to break iron bars, not might.  It works fine for me. A good fighter may have poor might, no problem, it depends of what he wants to do.

 

I like this system of attributes and skills. It allows a lot of variations in the same classe.

 

And at the end, the attributes are not so important in terms of game factors (far far less than with D&D)

Not that I don't value your thoughts, but a good attribute system cannot have mental and physical strength under the same attribute, for reasons that by now should be all too obvious.

Edited by Gairnulf

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-- Backer NPCs, aka "Zero interactivity guaranteed. No need to click". Duh.

 

Just false. Where are you in the game? How many hours?

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* getting too rich - then why won't u start spending your money ? I agree that money comes kinda easy but then u can just start buying stuff instead of saving..

 

* stash - dont like it then dont play on expert or allow that one functionality ? im sorry but its kinda your own problem because u both chose to play harder and then complain about it .. stash is a luxary! u didnt had that on BG! :D

tip - u can always pick the character u want to give a specific item in the loot menu and stash the rest as well.

 

* UI is minor problem, bugs should be fixed first but i agree things could always be added to infinity (no pun intended)

 

* all other things are things discussed before

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Might means something like intensity or agresiveness (think Joe Pesci...No muscles, big damages). Constitution and athletic skills allow you to break iron bars, not might.  It works fine for me. A good fighter may have poor might, no problem, it depends of what he wants to do.

 

I like this system of attributes and skills. It allows a lot of variations in the same classe.

 

And at the end, the attributes are not so important in terms of game factors (far far less than with D&D)

Not that I don't value your thoughts, but a good attribute system cannot have mental and physical strength under the same attribute, for reasons that by now should be all too obvious.

 

 

No. What is obvious so far is that the system works pretty fine to strongly and deeply define a lot of pretty different characters with few attributes skills and abilities. You maybe just need to no be so literal, IMO.

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The biggest joke - might affects your bullets' damage laughing.gif

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as just a lack of customization options for a Wizard (for example) who's more physically handy but less magically handy, as Wizard's go. There's no stat choice you can make to make a hulking, strong Wizard who can accomplish things that small, frail Wizard's cannot, purely because anyone with 15 Might has 15 muscles-and-soul-power.

 

It's not the abstraction that bugs me (as in "Oh no, your might doesn't affect bullets!"). It's what the game lacks because of it.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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-- Backer NPCs, aka "Zero interactivity guaranteed. No need to click". Duh.

 

Just false. Where are you in the game? How many hours?

 

Do you mean I get to have dialogues with them? That would be cool. But someone's wall of text outputted in the message log just doesn't count as interactivity.

 

 

the system works pretty fine to strongly and deeply define a lot of pretty different characters with few attributes skills and abilities. You maybe just need to no be so literal, IMO.

Some of this stuff I've mentioned before, and is my confirmed worries from before the release. Other is something that's made an impression on me while playing the full game.

  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.

 

 

the system works pretty fine to strongly and deeply define a lot of pretty different characters with few attributes skills and abilities. You maybe just need to no be so literal, IMO.

Well, I want to make a wizard who is physically weak but whose spells hit hard. And I can't. This is the very opposite of "pretty different characters with few attributes skills and abilities".

Edited by Gairnulf

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Personally don't care about not knowing currency values. It's my money and I need it now.


Qu'avez-vous fait de l'honneur de la patrie ?

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Well, I want to make a wizard who is physically weak but whose spells hit hard. And I can't. This is the very opposite of "pretty different characters with few attributes skills and abilities".

 

 

 

Yes you can.

 

 

I think you overestimate the role of the attributes alone in the game.  What defines the capabilties of a character is the combination of all the attributes and the combination of that combination with the skills (and many other mods like abilities, talents, equipement etc). If you have high might, poor constit and poor athletics, you have the fighting spirit but you're not a muscleman, on the contrary. That's it.

 

High Might + high Constit + etc = Schwarzeneger

High Might + high Intellect + etc = Einstein

Low Might + High Constit = Hodor...

 

That + the skills etc... it's all about combinations

Edited by crabe
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Some of this stuff I've mentioned before, and is my confirmed worries from before the release. Other is something that's made an impression on me while playing the full game.

  • Economy - getting too rich too soon is a thing. I'm intentionally not using the Stash and this has allowed me to avoid picking up merely somewhere around 1000cp worth of loot. I'm being mostly thorough with looting, as much as my characters' inventories allow, and I refrain from stealing from those containers which are not marked by a red mouse pointer, yet it wouldn't make sense in a roleplay sense to steal from them. And still I've got a bit over 5000cp for 15hrs of playing (not taken the stronghold yet) - thats why you have so much money.  most of the stuff in the stronghold costs over a thousand to upgrade.
  • Stash/Item weight/Encumbrance - needs added complexity to feel less like a vacuum-cleaner sim. The Stash is a mess functionality- and design-wise, among many examples - it's completely possible to accidentally send stuff you want to use into your stash while in the wilderness, and then be unable to get it out of the stash until you return to town. This is dumb as heck. Before someone comes and tries to be smart - no I can't turn stash accessible everywhere because 1) I play on Expert and 2) it defeats the purpose of restricting stash in the first place if you have to enable it because of technical reasons born out of a bad design decision. fair points
  • UI
    • markers on map, it's important guise not sure what you are getting at here?
    • Make tab key highlight the destination markers when you've sent your characters to a location, in addition to displaying markers for selected party members good suggestion
  • Stealth on party member level.  i kinda agree.. though i dont see it as much of an issue since i usually only have one person as my scout/disarm guy.
  • Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance  why?
  • Crafting/enchanting - shouldn't be possible everywhere, at specific smiths and for a price would be nice.  crafting/enchanting DOES cost money (and resources).. and why would you want to limit yourself to where you can craft/enchant?
  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.  kinda agree here.  and btw, to others that might be reading this.. there is a specific example in the game where a wizard can do this if he/she has might.
  • Stronghold - can't comment on this one yet, but from what I read about it, it will come up soon. - its not bad, though i can understand why some would think it can diminish the need to go to inns and shops later in the game.  my one counter.. maybe i just havent seen it yet.. but i THINK you can only get 1 type of rest bonus per rest (yes there are multiple upgrades for rest.. but my understanding is you cant have BOTH athletics AND mechanics bonuses when resting at the stronghold like you can when resting at an inn.

 

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The things that bug me so far are some of the more huge bugs, the lack of communication on them from obsidian, and more so, the lack of a timely patch to deal with them.

 

Beyond that I think the sooner some people realize this isn't D&D and stop trying to frame this game as D&D, the better off they'll be.  I think Obsidian has created a great game with some really cool mechanics and systems, and with some nice tweaks and takes on elements commonly found in this type of game.

 

I'm also not a masochist but to each his own!

 

The economy thing to me isn't an issue because there are numerous gold sinks - crafting, learning spells, enchanting, stronghold, and you might buy consumables (camping supplies) or gear.

 

There are also many mobs you don't need to kill, and you don't get xp for many mobs, so the loot can end up being the only reason to ever find and slay them.  Why make loot miserable on top of the pain (it's tough to handle /twitch) of not getting xp for kills?

 

I also don't see encumbrance as an issue.  Do people seriously miss juggling crap in their packs or having to go to town just to sell if you want to loot anything?  It's a lot of micromanagement and tedium that adds nothing.  If you go out of your way to clear maps, you deserve your money from loot.  If you really hate it you can do not use your stash.  And punch yourself in the nads between fights just to show how hardcore you are.

  • Stealth on party member level would be nice but is a big non issue IMO.  Why?  Because positioning isn't that hard, half of what people want to do is cheese, and if you don't get to do that ONE backstab you still need to consider that rogues are ridiculous dps if used even remotely well and get damage bonuses from tons of easily activated situations.  It's a party based game, IF you have a rogue they are still dominating, and this is a really tiny factor.
  • Crafting/enchanting - already costs you copper and I guess I'm not a masochist - I don't mind that I can craft some stuff anywhere.  It's kind of like the stash thing.  You could have more vendors/facilities littering the map like some cheeseball MMORPG such that you had to go to town every time you wanted to do every minor thing or sell your junk, or you can have fewer real towns and vendor locations and ditch all the hassle.  Your entire party could be perpetually fatigued from travel while you micro manage pointless trivial details.  I'm fine with it as it is.
  •  
  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.  - I totally disagree because not only is it fine for Might to represent power generically, it's more a RP thing to envision it as such and less to split it up into seperate stats.  It's also so much better for gameplay and mechanics IMO.  Might doesn't mean muscles.  This isn't D&D.
  • Stronghold - can't comment on this one yet - ...so basically you levy a bunch of criticisms and design suggestions on a game you've barely played (since the stronghold is pretty early in the game)...seems kind of hasty
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Some of this stuff I've mentioned before, and is my confirmed worries from before the release. Other is something that's made an impression on me while playing the full game.

  • Economy - getting too rich too soon is a thing. I'm intentionally not using the Stash and this has allowed me to avoid picking up merely somewhere around 1000cp worth of loot. I'm being mostly thorough with looting, as much as my characters' inventories allow, and I refrain from stealing from those containers which are not marked by a red mouse pointer, yet it wouldn't make sense in a roleplay sense to steal from them. And still I've got a bit over 5000cp for 15hrs of playing (not taken the stronghold yet)
  • Stash/Item weight/Encumbrance - needs added complexity to feel less like a vacuum-cleaner sim. The Stash is a mess functionality- and design-wise, among many exmaples - it's completely possible to accidentally send stuff you want to use into your stash while in the wilderness, and then be unable to get it out of the stash until you return to town. This is dumb as heck. Before someone comes and tries to be smart - no I can't turn stash accessible everywhere because 1) I play on Expert and 2) it defeats the purpose of restricting stash in the first place if you have to enable it because of technical reasons born out of a bad design decision.
  • UI
    • markers on map, it's important guise
    • Make tab key highlight the destination markers when you've sent your characters to a location, in addition to displaying markers for selected party memebers
  • Stealth on party member level
  • Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance
  • Crafting/enchanting - shouldn't be possible everywhere, at specific smiths and for a price would be nice
  • Might cannot designate both mental and physical strength. It's too hurtful to the very roleplay aspect to have a good wizard whose side-talent is breaking iron bars with his bare hands.
  • Stronghold - can't comment on this one yet, but from what I read about it, it will come up soon.

 

 

1.) That doesn't bother me at all...IRL or in games I don't think I could ever have too much money...nor care about such a "problem".

2.) Agree with weight system

3.) Being able to put custom markers on the map would be great...I keep trying when I want to mark something but can't.

4.) Stealth is so terribly implemented

5.) Stealth is so terribly implemented

6.) I actually agree with this but it's not too far fetched to carry the equipment to enchant with you...bags of holding....unlimited stashes...magic and all that jazz.

7.) Yup...stats could be way better

8.) Vanilla/boring stronghold mechanic, seems it was put in just because that milestone was hit in the Kick-starter...well check mark checked I guess...that's where you will sink your money into if you want....could explain your "too rich" issue.

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I want separated stealth and "look for traps" stances because obviously I don't want a character trying to hide in an empty room just so he can scan it for traps. I just think it looks silly visually. It's lazy, it says "this feature needs polishing".

 

I need to add my notes on the map, for example when I've spotted enemies somewhere and want to return to them later, or a house I want to mark on the map so I can find it at a later point and rob it, etc.

 

Limiting crafting/enchanting to certain areas is what makes sense. I imagine modding a weapon takes more than the power of will, and I want this depicted in the game. I am surprised I even have to explain things like that. In BG II everything was done in such detail that you even had a little scripted sequence of how a dwarven smith crafts the weapon the parts for which you had brought. Why the hell do I even have to ask for things to be done with attention to detail here? People had attention to detail 12 years ago without anyone specifically asking them.

 

I've seen nothing but ridiculous ramblings in attempts to explain why Might works well. It just doesn't, so don't bother, please. It's like trying to prove that the Earth is flat. Might is utterly unintuitive and it's not the only such attribute. My Barbarian benefits from high intelligence, and should be on par with the wizard? Please.

 

The stronghold is half-finished and this has been admitted by the devs. The problems are starting to become evident in my playthrough, but I'll explain in more detail later.

 

Overall, the game could have benefited from another 6 month delay. I just hope the expansion is not similarly rushed. It's still a very good game, but it was too early for release imo.

 

The things that bug me so far are some of the more huge bugs, the lack of communication on them from obsidian, and more so, the lack of a timely patch to deal with them.

poedevtracker.net

 

The PoE dev team is comprised of about 40 people, and they would need at least another 40 just to soothe all the crybabies on the forum. They can't afford that. I don't agree there has been a lack of communication.

 

Beyond that I think the sooner some people realize this isn't D&D and stop trying to frame this game as D&D, the better off they'll be. I think Obsidian has created a great game with some really cool mechanics and systems, and with some nice tweaks and takes on elements commonly found in this type of game.

 

The economy thing to me isn't an issue because there are numerous gold sinks - crafting, learning spells, enchanting, stronghold, and you might buy consumables (camping supplies) or gear.

[...]

I also don't see encumbrance as an issue. Do people seriously miss juggling crap in their packs or having to go to town just to sell if you want to loot anything? It's a lot of micromanagement and tedium that adds nothing. If you go out of your way to clear maps, you deserve your money from loot. If you really hate it you can do not use your stash. And punch yourself in the nads between fights just to show how hardcore you are.

I really wonder do you (and others) realize how ridiculous it looks when you chime in on some thread just to say "Oh, these things bother you? They don't bother me at all." Well, guess what, I don't care about what doesn't bother you. I'm writing my post to say what bothers me. Are you also in the habit of entering shops just to tell the clients that this is a shop you don't need anything from?

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I think of might as combat prowess in general, a character doesn't have to be physically strong to be powerful in combat.

 

ex. you can have a mighty army, that doesn't mean the army has big muscles.

 

I do agree the economy needs work, right now it feels too easy to make gold and not enough to spend it on, I'm not sure the fault though is the stash system or just the overwhelming amount of "trash" loot.

 

Except that Might is also used for physical intimidation. So it is clearly both "physical might" and "soul might" or whatever you want to call it. I would buy into this mechanic more if they didn't use Might for physical intimidation events.

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1.) That doesn't bother me at all...IRL or in games I don't think I could ever have too much money...nor care about such a "problem".

The main motive behind much of our activity is economical. When money stops being an issue, this takes away from the roleplay - "My character is too rich to care about the plot events or about what someone is offering for a service" - and it gives you nobrainers in place of decisions - "Buy the best gear, why not, who cares about the money".

 

Actually, even with around 6800 cp right now, I can't say I'm too rich right now, but this is due to limiting myself from using the stash as much as possible (it's unavoidable for crafting components), and from refusing to steal from places where it would not make sense from a roleplay perspective.


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I think of might as combat prowess in general, a character doesn't have to be physically strong to be powerful in combat.

 

ex. you can have a mighty army, that doesn't mean the army has big muscles.

 

I do agree the economy needs work, right now it feels too easy to make gold and not enough to spend it on, I'm not sure the fault though is the stash system or just the overwhelming amount of "trash" loot.

 

Except that Might is also used for physical intimidation. So it is clearly both "physical might" and "soul might" or whatever you want to call it. I would buy into this mechanic more if they didn't use Might for physical intimidation events.

 

Might is both. Might is raw power; it's amount of raw power your soul can generate, manifested as either physical strength or magical potential but always from the same source. The lore says that even fighters, through years of martial training, use their soul energy to perform superhuman feats.

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1.) That doesn't bother me at all...IRL or in games I don't think I could ever have too much money...nor care about such a "problem".

The main motive behind much of our activity is economical. When money stops being an issue, this takes away from the roleplay - "My character is too rich to care about the plot events or about what someone is offering for a service" - and it gives you nobrainers in place of decisions - "Buy the best gear, why not, who cares about the money".

 

Actually, even with around 6800 cp right now, I can't say I'm too rich right now, but this is due to limiting myself from using the stash as much as possible (it's unavoidable for crafting components), and from refusing to steal from places where it would not make sense from a roleplay perspective.

 

I use the stash as much as I can, loot everything that isn't marked stealing (and some things that are) and generally do my best to generate as much money as possible. I also buy the best equipment I can, enchant everything whenever possible and have Aloth learning spells whenever I get a new grimoire.

 

I've never had more than the 12K copper I have on me right now, and generally I'm sitting at around 4,000. Since I'm also doing upgrades constantly, I expect the amount of money I have will go up once those upgrades are done and I can then spend the money on hirelings to protect my tax income.

 

My point is that the money system is so far balanced for me, but that might change.

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Well, I want to make a wizard who is physically weak but whose spells hit hard. And I can't.

You can't? Is there a particular reason...? I'm planning to play a clumsy physically weak Wizard with hard hitting spells.

 

She'll have reasonably high might, which will unlock might related conversation options... But I don't intend to use them, because she's not a physically strong or menacing person. Is there something that is automatically going to make her appear strong and brutish? I know a lot of the scripted interactions can involve might, but I also know that they can involve tools (which I used with my Cipher who had low might) and given she isn't going to have the physical strength to deal with things, she's probably going to use her brains and a lot of luck to get by....

 

But is there something in the game that is going to make that impossible? Is there something that is automatically going to make my physically weak Wizard as strong as an ox? I'm genuinely curious...

Edited by Sylvanpyxie

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