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Why does fan of flames do so much damage?


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So I don't know if you guys noticed this, but it seems like fan of flames (ie burning hands) does WAAAY more damage than it should when compared to other spells.

 

To give perspective here, fan of flames is a level 1, fairly large conal AoE, and on my level 6 Aloth, it does 42-58 burn damage.

 

Meanwhile, fireball, a level 3, circle AoE does 27-37 damage.

 

Or take Necrotic Lance, a level 2 SINGLE TARGET spell that does 37-48 damage plus 17.7 over time...meaning a total of 54.7-65.7 damage.  Which is just a bit more than the level 1, very large AoE fan of flames, which does all its damage instantly.

 

Is this the way it's supposed to be?  I mean, one would think that the level 3 spell would at least do damage on par with the level 1 spell.

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I don't know. Why does nearly every monster in the game inflict a status ailment that weakens your Deflection if not cripple you outright with its basic attack? In a game where even a partial hit inflicts said status ailment in full force? And then allow you to summon such a monster of your own? Seriously, forget Fan of Flames, the summoned Phantom can solo most encounters through stunlock.

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BETA didn't get all those things right, let's hope for fast patches :) So many skills/feats/spells are either underpower or overpower.

 

Okay cool, so I'm not the only one that thinks this lol :).

 

I've also noticed a lot more of this imbalance in spells as I perused through them.

 

For example, Noxious blast, and Fireball.  Both level 3 circle AoE spells.

 

Fireball does 27-37, and that's it.

 

Corrosive blast does 32-45 AND it sickens AND it's longer range.

 

:/ lol

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Josh Sawyer designed it that way because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damage. He mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC.

Edited by TrueMenace

Calibrating...

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Josh Sawyer designed it that because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damaged. he mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC.

 

Now this is true, and it's something I considered.  Because FoF projects from your wizard, so you have to get him in the fray.  Whereas fireball has a longer range.

 

The problem is I think they went to far.  IMO, fireball is a level 3 spell, meaning it should already have some advantages over a level 1 spell.  Also, the damage difference is so extreme, that when you take damage reduction into account, fireball becomes nearly useless.

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I have no clue re: this, but do resistances come into play much in PoE? eg, maybe fire resistance becomes somewhat common?

Or maybe it was felt more damage helps compensate for the potential friendly fire issues (incentive to not choose "less dangerous" ones all the time instead). Wait, does that have any FF? Maybe I'm confusing it with something else.

 

Or Josh could have his reasons, too (I think too long/type too slow, as usual).

“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts
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Josh Sawyer designed it that because it's harder to land a Fan of Flames than a Fireball, thus it should do more damaged. he mentioned this during a tumbler or twitter response IIRC.

 

Ooooh, okay, so that's how balance works. When you're balancing a first level spell against a third level one, the third level one should be inferior to compensate for being potentially more difficult to cast without catching your party members in it. :rolleyes:

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I have no clue re: this, but do resistances come into play much in PoE? eg, maybe fire resistance becomes somewhat common?

Or maybe it was felt more damage helps compensate for the potential friendly fire issues (incentive to not choose "less dangerous" ones all the time instead).

 

Or Josh could have his reasons, too (I think too long/type too slow, as usual).

 

They do come into play, but FoF and fireball are both fire damage sooo... :)

 

But yeah, the whole fireball is easier to get off due to it's range is a factor.  Regardless though, I don't think it's a large enough factor for the damage differential here.  I basically never use fireball because the damage is so low...by the time it gets through damage resistance, it rarely hits above 20 it seems.

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The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable.

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The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable.

 

Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works.

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The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable.

 

Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works.

 

 

Says who? Your pompous bold italic text?

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Fireball is easier to target, has a much larger AoE, and is much faster to cast. Fan of Flames requires positioning to even be usable. You either have to spend time running around the flank to get it off, use the far smaller Foe Only AoE, or have a frontline Wizard to use FoF.

 

Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spellThat is not how balance works.

 

 

It is how balance works in PoE. You're not supposed to end up with completely useless level 1 spells in the end game, which is the case with the DnD spells.

Edited by Tartantyco
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The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable.

 

Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works.

 

 

Says who? Your pompous bold italic text?

 

 

I'm gonna agree with Nameless here.  A third level spell should have some advantage over a first level one.  I'm not saying that first level spells should be useless, but I shouldn't be coveting my first level spells lots WAY more than my third level ones which is what i'm doing now.

 

With the way the game is now, if I could trade my third level slots for more first level ones, I probably would.  And I would think that's a sign of imbalance.

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Says who? Your pompous bold italic text?

 

 

The point I'm trying to make is that it is already balanced by virtue of requiring you to be four whole levels higher to cast it. It doesn't need to have its effects nerfed to make up for the advantages it offers in comparison to fan of flames.

Edited by TheUsernamelessOne
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The advantage comes from Fireball being easier to position for. You can keep your Wiz in his usual spot in the back and fling a FyeBawl just far enough of your front line to still envelop most mobs. With Fan I have to take a risk in moving my Wiz round the sides to flank which makes him vulnerable.

 

Fireball is a third level spell. It should not be balanced against a first level spell. That is not how balance works.

 

 

Says who? Your pompous bold italic text?

 

 

One would imagine that a class feature acquired four levels later with less uses would be balanced to be more powerful than the class feature acquired at level 1.

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Fireball is easier to target, has a much larger AoE, and is much faster to cast. Fan of Flames requires positioning to even be usable. You either have to spend time running around the flank to get it off, use the far smaller Foe Only AoE, or have a frontline Wizard to use FoF.

 

What about noxious blast then?  Which is the same level as fireball, has the same AoE, but also causes sicken, has longer range, and does more damage.

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Strategically it's more powerful because you can use it safely in more situations. Tight rooms and corridors where your Wizard can't find a gap? Fireball. Too close to an enemies engagement radius? Fireball. If it did as much or more damage than Fan you would never use Fan again. 

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I also want to point out that Fireball is basically the iconic wizard spell.  And in every D&D-esque game someone plays, they are always waiting for their wizard to get fireball so then they can start melting groups of mobs.

 

So it's just disappointing to have Fireball in PoE be outclassed by just about every other damage spell in the game.  Even level 1 damage spells.

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In my book it should be OP'd, it's one of those highly difficult spells to use and very situational.  The chance of FF is very high using it as well, and the chance of the enemy negating part or all of the damage is also good.

 

But it's not. The only reason Fireball was a gamble in BG was because you had to get a feel for the radius.

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