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The problem I have with it is that it limits roleplaying and disincentivizes combat rather than incentivizing alternatives.  As an example,

 

SPOILER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I go to Raederic's castle to kill him off on account of him being a total, raging ****.  It's a seriously tough fight (probably because I'm under-leveled).  I sneak in, grab the disguise robes, and go about sneaking through the castle, except I realize, 'Hey, all the people in this castle have totally been following that d-bag's orders to hang half the town.  They're as guilty as he is.  I'm going to slaughter them all.'  Once again, it's a pretty tough fight.  What would keep me going at it would be getting some experience for it.  But I don't.  I get basically nothing from it other than useless loot.  Meanwhile, I can just sneak around, get to the throneroom without killing anyone, and complete the quest with WAY less hassle.  That's the problem with the system.  Random, unavoidable but useless wilderness encounters also become nothing but annoyances, because you get nothing from them.  The end result?  I just turn on a trainer and give myself unlimited health.  Which is a shame.  They put all this work into the combat system, but if I don't get benefit from the combat itself, then I'm disincentivized to deal with it.   Meanwhile lockpicking gives you XP because... stuff.  Sneaking gets XP, fighting doesn't.  It's a bad system as far as I'm concerned.

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I don't think it creates any sort of negative for combat. Very early in the game, there was an option to engage in combat. I did so because I wanted to learn something. That's it. Not looking for loot. Not saving my skin. I just wanted to find out the truth of a story I heard. When it became clear that I would be forced to fight, I did so gladly to achieve a goal I had set for myself. It wasn't even for a quest. I have, in these early levels, never once even looked at my quest log. I don't even know what's done or not, even though I've seen what appears to be some sort of quest box that briefly opens up as I do stuff.

 

Unless you're looking for it, I don't think you'll miss kill XP.


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@Blowfish:

 

That's not a problem with "I don't get XP for combat." It's a problem with "the loot wasn't good enough," or maybe quest design, etc. In other words, maybe the sneaking approach should result in further consequences down the road, when the not-dead folk are still alive afterward and continue living their lives and causing people problems.

 

When combat isn't just "some spiders are chillin' in the woods," it should reward you with something significant. Doesn't always have to be XP, but, the main thing with "no kill XP" is that people don't want XP purely for the simply fact that something died. XP should be resolved for "quest" solutions/accomplishments, for lack of better terminology. Doesn't mean "if someone didn't tell you to kill this person, it doesn't give you XP." It just means that if killing a group of enemies isn't actually affecting anything else in the game world/narrative, then it really shouldn't give you XP. It can give you spiffy loot, or maybe the knowledge of some secret technique or spell (heck, that'd be perfect. Combat rewards you with improved combat capabilities!). Etc.

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Well, grinding is no fun, it's why I don't play MMOs (well, Secret World is pretty good). Still, you replace grinding kills for xp (which I truly hate), with grinding side quests for xp, which I like.

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Hi everyone,

 

I am really pissed off by one setting of PoE.

 

No EXP from killing??

 

Why? Why you have to do this? There are so many ways to prevent over-levelling...................

 

Killing mobs is so fun and should definitely be credited. 

 

Just want to know how many people agree with me.

 

A patch plz.

If it is so fun, then why do you need to be rewarded for it?

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Hey OP, it's not to control levels. It's to make resolving problems, quests, tasks, etc.. without violence more attractive. If you get quest xp and kill xp, you get rewarded for killing stuff. Without kill xp a peaceful solution to a quest is not less rewarding.

 

 

Not sure if this counts as spoiler so tagged just in case.

 

 

I used this to get through Raedric's hold. I like being able to complete a quest task without having to kill everything I stumble across. Knowing that there is no XP for killing random sellswords helps reinforced my decision to not go on a killfest through the castle. So I'm not punished for my decision to try to be compassionate/merciful where I can be (it's fit my character type).

 

And at the opposite scale, I guess there's the lure of the extra loot. Or for the murderous types, just the pleasure of the kill count. I'm not sure whether the latter counts as an in-game incentive, but it does feel that the behavioural motivators do kinda all balance out.

 

 

So in all, I'm enjoying the way that kill-XP has been adjusted. Diminishing returns makes an awful lot of sense to me too: it's pretty elegant.

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The problem I have with it is that it limits roleplaying and disincentivizes combat rather than incentivizing alternatives.

 

... You know that in the real person you don't magically become stronger just from killing people, right? I mean, I just don't see the problem here: you have the option to roleplay a complete psycho who kills everyone they can (and in fact I still think you're incentivized to do that), but the game doesn't prod you onto that path. How could the lack of kill XP possibly be a roleplaying issue where in the real world every sensible adventurer would want to expose themselves to as little combat as they could while still achieving their goals?


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The problem I have with it is that it limits roleplaying and disincentivizes combat rather than incentivizing alternatives.

 

... You know that in the real person you don't magically become stronger just from killing people, right? I mean, I just don't see the problem here: you have the option to roleplay a complete psycho who kills everyone they can (and in fact I still think you're incentivized to do that), but the game doesn't prod you onto that path. How could the lack of kill XP possibly be a roleplaying issue where in the real world every sensible adventurer would want to expose themselves to as little combat as they could while still achieving their goals?

 

... You know that in the real [world] you don't magically do anything, have wizards, ciphers, rogues, or any aspects of a fantasy game right? So why are you trying to bring the real [world] into the discussion?

 

I think Lephys got my point.  Engaging in combat should reward you with improved combat abilities.  I'm not someone who wants to kill every last thing in an RPG.  In fact, I play RPG's for story, not fighting.  But if I'm in a situation where I want to fight certain enemies, I ought to be rewarded for that tedium by improved combat abilities which will make future fights more interesting and less tedious.  Since I get NOTHING from fighting in this game, I'm disincentivized to deal with it.  Hence, the cheats.  If they gave XP, combat abilities, some kind of advancement or whatever, it would be worth it, but as it is now, it's not.

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Oh, right, there's magic now, so that means it makes perfect sense to risk your life for literally no gain. Silly me.


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*edit* It's actually easier for the devs to control how much XP a player will have at any given point in the game if they do the XP awards mostly through quest resolution than by number of kills. So this is why they went that way, apparently.

 

Is that why it's entirely possible to hit level 12 by the beginning of Act 3?

 

The devs did an absolutely awful job of controlling how much XP a player will have at any given point in the game, so I'm disinclined to think this reason holds up.


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I personally think the Bestiary system is perfect. How much more experienced can someone get into killing wolves after he's killed already 15 or something?

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The XP Kill system seems great to me. You get XP - i.e. your character learns something - up to a point. You can use this to improve your combat skills through leveliing as a result of those XP. However once you've killed enough of the same thing, you learn nothing new.

 

Presumably you are in the combat to work towards something else - or, if not, then maybe you just enjoy fighting. The added XP are a bonus, at the start.

 

But don't expect your character to continuously get better just by killing the same old thing.

 

[edit] ninjaaaa

Edited by sim-h

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i kinda like the lack of kill XP. makes non-violent quest solutions useful. in other games i often ignore stuff like infiltration quests or stealth because killing the mobs outright gives more XP and thus more power in the long run. or the horrible "do the stealth/diplomacy thing first and then still slaughter the goblins afterwards" XP grinding. yeah you can easily avoid that problem by not doing it, but it's easier to resist if there is no reward for unneeded, excessive violence ;)

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But don't expect your character to continuously get better just by killing the same old thing.

 

Is that why you don't get any better at sword-fighting by having sword fights?

 

The Bestiary system is perfectly adequate, but let's not pretend it makes any goddamn sense, because it doesn't.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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But don't expect your character to continuously get better just by killing the same old thing.

 

Is that why you don't get any better at sword-fighting by having sword fights?

 

The Bestiary system is perfectly adequate, but let's not pretend it makes any goddamn sense, because it doesn't.

 

 

You get better up to a point. Then you gain nothing further since you are not doing anything new. I'm not sure how you can fail to grasp that.

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But don't expect your character to continuously get better just by killing the same old thing.

 

Is that why you don't get any better at sword-fighting by having sword fights?

 

The Bestiary system is perfectly adequate, but let's not pretend it makes any goddamn sense, because it doesn't.

 

 

You get better up to a point. Then you gain nothing further since you are not doing anything new. I'm not sure how you can fail to grasp that.

 

 

And yet you don't gain any experience from fighting humanoids, whose abilities and approaches have far greater variation than any other opposition.

 

See also: "you don't get any better at sword-fighting by having sword fights"

Edited by gkathellar

If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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I very much like the way they've done combat xp. Nothing is perfect in any kind of model, let alone a cRPG, but even just having the flavour of some good ideas elevates the game above many of its compatriots. Bestiary progression/xp is a really nice touch - if I want to farm for items or because that's what my character would do, then I can. It aids (not instantly makes perfect in all scenarios) balancing too.

 

So at the end of the day it makes the game more fun for me.

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The idea behind this bothered me at first, but playing the game and "Filling my bestiary log" has been like a little mini-game for me and I enjoy the experience and the small amount of xp for it. I've actually leveled a few times by doing this too (if you are close to leveling for example..go kill stuff > get level)

 

To me gaining xp is secondary to:

Challenging combat

Exploring the world

Finding secrets

Enjoying the story

 

So maybe that's another reason why any XP issues don't bother me too much. It's just not my primary focus in the game.

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The problem I have with it is that it limits roleplaying and disincentivizes combat rather than incentivizing alternatives.  As an example,

 

SPOILER

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I go to Raederic's castle to kill him off on account of him being a total, raging ****.  It's a seriously tough fight (probably because I'm under-leveled).  I sneak in, grab the disguise robes, and go about sneaking through the castle, except I realize, 'Hey, all the people in this castle have totally been following that d-bag's orders to hang half the town.  They're as guilty as he is.  I'm going to slaughter them all.'  Once again, it's a pretty tough fight.  What would keep me going at it would be getting some experience for it.  But I don't.  I get basically nothing from it other than useless loot.  Meanwhile, I can just sneak around, get to the throneroom without killing anyone, and complete the quest with WAY less hassle.  That's the problem with the system.  Random, unavoidable but useless wilderness encounters also become nothing but annoyances, because you get nothing from them.  The end result?  I just turn on a trainer and give myself unlimited health.  Which is a shame.  They put all this work into the combat system, but if I don't get benefit from the combat itself, then I'm disincentivized to deal with it.   Meanwhile lockpicking gives you XP because... stuff.  Sneaking gets XP, fighting doesn't.  It's a bad system as far as I'm concerned.

 

That's been my take on it as well. I find combat to be an unrewarding chore that makes me want to avoid it altogether.

Edited by Corivar

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Getting to the last act of Kotor 2 really blew my mind in this respect, and made me rethink the logic of kill xp in cRPGs (when Vrook explains why you've been becoming stronger as you fight across the galaxy, and explains that this isn't normal for a Jedi). I was thrilled to learn that Obsidian continued this line of thought in PoE and removed kill xp altogether.

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I like that when I fight something I have an actual in-game reason to do so now, rather than feeling like I have to seek out more creatures to kill to level up.

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I don't know. I like the idea of no kill XP, but so far in the game, in most areas, I'm finding you still have to kill almost everything on the map because you need to get by the mobs to resolve quests - or in order to fully explore the map, you're forced to do battle or you can't find out what's there. Sure, that's a reason to kill them, but it means you're still on a slaughtering spree.

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Personally, I'm planning on my next playthrough to build a character to maximize stealth and mechanics and just use them to explore.  Still have to kill some things to get by, but it won't be as bad.

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Killing mobs is so fun and should definitely be credited. 

 

If killing mobs is so fun, why do you need an external motivator to encourage you to kill mobs?

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Fun combat and enchantment ingredients has so far been plenty incentive for me to kill monsters.

As I predicted beforehand the XP rewards, or lack thereof, have been a complete non-issue. I simply don't think about it.

I actually still want the option to turn off XP notifications in the log.

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