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Thinking of buying, worried about Wizards though


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Well, if playing the Wizard class is your intent, particularly if because you loved Wizards in the Infinity Engine games, do not bother. The limited casts per day/rests would not ordinarily be a problem, but their spells are gimped to pointlessness. Their declared versatility is also moot, as they can do three things: cast extraordinarily brief self protections, cast mediocre debuffs that last only slightly longer than the time it took to cast and recover from them, and cast mediocre AoE damage spells.

 

Instead, try a Druid or Cipher. The Cipher is very gimmicky, but their spells aren't totally nerfed to hell. More importantly, they can cast without the rest restriction. This game is still very much worth playing. I'm enjoying it quite a bit--just not as a wizard.

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Don't worry about it.  There are "per encounter" skills you can use, not just spells.  The wizard feels a LOT more useful at low levels than the generic D&D CRPG wizard who is dead weight at the start of those games.  Ie, you get one skill with the wizard companion you find that can be used twice per encounter.  And that has saved the day for me a few times so far; it's very rare in BG that the level 1-3 wizard saved anything.  Plus for the spells you have memorized, you memorize the levels, not the individual spells.  So you can cast the single-target damage spell 4 times, or the group-knockdown spell 4 times, or a mix of them.  It feels a lot more flexible.

 

Also: you don't need to play a wizard to use magic.  There is also cipher which has a lot of single target spell-like abilities while also doing either ranged or melee damage.  Doesn't carry around a big dusty tome everywhere though... 

 

I say don't worry about it.  If you buy the game you'll probably play it more than once with a different player character class each time.

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Was reading the wiki and saw that wizards function like baldur's gate: they can only cast a small number of spells before becoming useless redshirts. To become marginally useful again they have to rest 8 hours... This seems like an outdated and annoying mechanic. What do wizards do once they've cast their two spells at level one? Go home and take a nap? Put on pom-poms and cheerlead for the real members of the party?

 

Please tell me I misunderstood the wiki so I can buy this game.

 

Buy it. In DnD parlance it's like a cross between a Sorcerer and a Wizard. You're limited to X level 1 spells per day. Your grimoire can hold 4 spells. You can choose to cast any combination of those spells that day up to your daily limit. Same applies to all other levels.

 

I'm playing a dwarf wizard on Path of the Damned and he's just dandy!

 

My beef is that learning spells (so you can use them in your grimoire) takes coin... coin I would rather spend elsewhere but the collector in me still just wants the spells just to have them!

 

Also, you can add spells party members know in your grimoire and capture other grimoire's so your character doesn't /need/ to learn it per se...

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Thanks or the replies! I think I now know enough to realize that I would be as annoyed by the PoE Wizard as I was by the BG Wizard and the D&D Wizard. It definitely sounds like an improvement on a cassic PnP mechanic, but its still a low-magic mechanic that always seemed arbitrary, simplistic, and unfun to me. Personally, I think there are ways of limiting magic that don't involve mindless auto attack. Or arbitrary levels, or resting... ugh. Ingredient requirements (like arrows for archers) seems like a sensible way that would also be true to PnP.

 

Also... spending gold for magic? That is the least magical mini-game imaginable. Again, ingredients/crafting would make more sense here.

 

I've been playing games like Magicka, Wizard Wars, and Divinity: OS, and I've been pretty much spoiled by their modern innovations that cater to magic user fans in interesting and challenging ways that preserve the spirit of the PnP magic without being chained to a literal recapitulation. I will probably buy the game later if it goes on sale. Maybe by then they'll patch the Wizard to make it as interesting and useful as a Cipher. The Druid sound kind of interesting too ;)

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Big difference between the older IE games and this one is that mages don't have to use the sling.

They do just as much damage with a gun/wand/crossbow and any other class with the same stats.

 

All classes (I think) have x/rest abilitis in this game and x/encounter.

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He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster . . .

when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you

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I think they dropped the ball with Wizards, I usually play using the main magic using class of any game but I've stopped my Wizard play through in PoE for now. The rest system is fine in my opinion but the spells are a bit lackluster compared to the DnD ones and the other casters in PoE. Lower damage, no summons etc.

But saying that, I highly recommend you buy the game as the other classes are excellent. And the game in general is fantastic fun.

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Wizards get a little bit more bearable at higher levels, but they're entirely built around crowd control and debuffing; to a degree even more so than in D&D itself. Their nuking options are rather lackluster compared to the Druid's, which gets a large variety of interesting AOE spells, including a number that are foe-only.

And even at high levels, it mostly comes down to having the ability to spam Slicken in every fight. Not exactly all that interesting, IMO. I wish the other spells had a bit more "oomph."

But Telmorial is correct; in spite of the annoyance I sometimes feel when playing a 'hobbled' mage class, I really am enjoying the game. The atmosphere and story is just fantastic, in my opinion.

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I agree that the Wizard uses-per-rest system in theory is sound. But in practice it is not. It needs some tweaking, imo.

 

A lot of the Wizard's spells are (let's face it) hardly ever going to be used, because;

  1.  a lot of the damaging ones are total lackluster, considering the cost of using,
  2.  the short buff based ones, totally suite preemptive use (which you cannot do, and you have to waste a use/time),
  3. CC >  all. Why use a shabby damage spell, which is typically going to hit for the same as a melee attack, when you can control enemies while the meleez tear sh!t up?

I think they need to relook at making some more of the wizard's toolkit/spells per-encounter. Balanced of course. But as it stands, level 1 spells at level 9, isn't going to save the class..

 

Now, I'll still play a Wizard, for rp and badassery reasons, because I always love the sorcerer/magus/wizard types, etc.. I'll also still use the cool damage spells. Because they're cool. But I cannot see a lot of others doing this. I'd imagine this game attracts quite a lot of 'min-maxer' types. That are all about  functionality, etc.

 

Long story short; classes need tweaking. Druid, and Cypher are just superior in almost all ways to a Wizard, and that's only two simple generalization examples.

 

---

I intended to write a sentence, or two, and ended up ranting like a lunatic. This GAAME!? ;p edits: for typos

Edited by Asmodean-
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Wizards at the very early levels are rather weak. agreed. but the more spells you get the more powerful you get. wizards are also one of the more customizable classes as you can have a lot of different spells. altho you can only have 4 spells per level in your grimoire(?) you can have multiple grimoires in your quickslots which i believe you can then switch. so you could potentially make different presets of spells for different situations if you want.

 

also as others said you can learn spells from grimoires you found from enemies. (it costs a few hundred coppers per spell but unless you buy every magical item you´ll be swimming in money pretty fast)

 

the limited spells per rest makes it much more interesting. you have to plan, do you really want to cast this spell now or do you want to keep it for a harder fight deeper in the dungeon. You also have some "per encounter" spells. You start with a small AoE dmg + dazzling(?) spell, later you can get a Grimoire Smash xD

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Abilities that are just a few per rest should 'rip face' and 'rock the world'.....trouble is...they don't

 

I agree. Obviously not with all spells, of course xd. But, if I have to be saving my spells for the rapture, for the 'time I may need them'. So I'm not able to simply enjoy using the cool wizard abilities like other classes can do with theirs. When I do fire them off. I want bloody ultima beams of firey destructive awe.

 

 

...or something like that, anyway ;p.

 

You get the point, though. Saving your spells for "that fight" the whole time. Then just dumping them before you're going to rest anyway, is bad design imo.

Edited by Asmodean-
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Was reading the wiki and saw that wizards function like baldur's gate

 

 

Yeah, which means it's like D&D, and which means it's a sensible system where you need to think and use resources.  Couple this with how resting works in this game (an attempt and preventing players from dumping everything they have ever battle then resting for 8 hours between each fight) and overall you have to manage your party's resources a wee bit or spend a ton of time waking too/from town.

 

The opposite IMO is a system like DAI/DA2 where you can basically cast nonstop (they do kind of limit you with a cheesey mana/stam pool that recharges fast during combat) such that you basically spam every ability you have (and you have far fewer and less distinct abilities) off cooldown and there's next to zero tactical thought.

 

 

I am loving my wizard so far, on normal with a cipher in my group for comparison. However the cost/benefit of using the wizard, and other casters feels off.

 

The resource use here is easy. So many casts cost a camping supply or a run back to an inn. Fair enough.

 

But what is it that you, and it seems so many other fans of the rest system, are thinking about in an encounter. Like how do you know when the cost benefit analysis works out so the benefit of casting the spell outweighs the cost? What is the planning you are considering? And the information you are using in this plan, where does it come from?

 

For the most part, I am going into every encounter, and by default the next encounter, completely blind. So how do you know when to use your big guns?

 

When you are taking a ton of damage? Or is it when the fight goes sideway? Then let loose? If the fight is going as planned I seem to not need my wizard at all.

 

Again I love my wizard, just every time I use a spell I wonder if I have gimped myself for later, and it looks like many hardcore, oldschoolers, tradionalist, don’t feel that way. I am honestly curious as to why.

Edited by Gidpo
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Was reading the wiki and saw that wizards function like baldur's gate: they can only cast a small number of spells before becoming useless redshirts. To become marginally useful again they have to rest 8 hours... This seems like an outdated and annoying mechanic. What do wizards do once they've cast their two spells at level one? Go home and take a nap? Put on pom-poms and cheerlead for the real members of the party?

 

Please tell me I misunderstood the wiki so I can buy this game.

 

They get a certain number of spells per encounter. So they never become useless redshirts unless the fight goes on awhile. Even then they have fancy rods and wands that shoot past deflection so they can continue to contribute.

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Wait... Is it spells per level per rest, OR is it spells per grimoire per level per rest? In other words if you have 3 grimoires, is that effectively 12 spells per level per rest or just the option to choose 4 out of 12 spells before needing to take nap? Or put even simpler, is it the grimoires need to recharge during rest or is it the wizards themselves?

 

Also, how many grimoires and spells does the average wizard get access to during most of the game?

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So I learned something important today!  I didn't need to squeeze my wizard in between or off to the side of my tanks, I can actually cast AoE spells through the tanks if I do it properly.

 

You'll have a red cone and a longer yellow cone area.  The yellow cone affects the enemy but not friendly targets!  So you can cast through your tanks if they are right in the edge of the yellow area.  Watch people's targeting circles to see who will be affected by the attack.  Here is a picture which shows this in practice.

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Wait... Is it spells per level per rest, OR is it spells per grimoire per level per rest? In other words if you have 3 grimoires, is that effectively 12 spells per level per rest or just the option to choose 4 out of 12 spells before needing to take nap? Or put even simpler, is it the grimoires need to recharge during rest or is it the wizards themselves?

 

Also, how many grimoires and spells does the average wizard get access to during most of the game?

It's spells per rest. You find as many grimoires as you defeat enemy Wizards (I think I have something like 5 extra ones right now), but they do not allow you to cast extra spells. In other words, a level 4 Wizard will always be able to cast exactly 4 level 1 spells no matter how many times you switch grimoires. Also, switching grimoires incurs a rather long cooldown during which you can't cast any spells at all. On the other hand, finding all of those grimoires does allow you to learn new spells from them (at the cost of 100 gold per spell level).

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But what is it that you, and it seems so many other fans of the rest system, are thinking about in an encounter. Like how do you know when the cost benefit analysis works out so the benefit of casting the spell outweighs the cost? What is the planning you are considering? And the information you are using in this plan, where does it come from?

 

For the most part, I am going into every encounter, and by default the next encounter, completely blind. So how do you know when to use your big guns?

 

When you are taking a ton of damage? Or is it when the fight goes sideway? Then let loose? If the fight is going as planned I seem to not need my wizard at all.

 

Again I love my wizard, just every time I use a spell I wonder if I have gimped myself for later, and it looks like many hardcore, oldschoolers, tradionalist, don’t feel that way. I am honestly curious as to why.

 

 

Personally, I'm using the big guns when I see that the fight is going to be long. Most fights ends very quickly, but when you're taking hp by hp of your enemy, you know it may not be so easy.

 

I'm also using it when I already met one kind of monster I find too dangerous and that I want to down very quickly. Or when I suddently take a lot of damage. 

 

But let's make it clear, when I say "use the big guns" I don't mean "throw every spells I have", I meaning "using one or two spells lvl 2/3 and a few lvl 1 if needed".

The only moment where I really throw everything I got is when I know I'll rest very soon.

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Wizards come with a class trait that allows them to have 2 per encounter aoe attacks that can daze, which allows them to conserve spells and apply both damage and afflictions. 

 

They use ranged magical weapons and their spells are extremely versatile and effective. 

 

I personally think they are one of the most enjoyable classes in the game. 

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Wizards come with a class trait that allows them to have 2 per encounter aoe attacks that can daze, which allows them to conserve spells and apply both damage and afflictions. 

 

They use ranged magical weapons and their spells are extremely versatile and effective. 

 

I personally think they are one of the most enjoyable classes in the game. 

The issue I, and a lot of others, are having is rather that Druids and Ciphers are completely superior to Wizards in just about every possible way. Sure, you can have fun playing a Wizard, but I bet you could have more fun playing a Druid, and that needs addressing, IMO.

 

Druids get some amazing AOE and direct-damage spells, while the 'ultimate' tools in the Wizard's repertoire (Fireball) are pretty much completely anemic by comparison. Yes, crowd control and all that, but Druids get plenty of that too (and much more varieties of it, plus healing/regeneration and shapeshifting). Also, I may go against the D&D grain here but I see no fundamental problem with trying to use (and enjoy) the Wizard as a nuker.

 

Not to mention the fact that most Wizard spells are fairly short ranged. Just to cast the underwhelming Fireball you practically have to get right into something's face. Hivervias' (sp?) awesome lighting and Sunstrike spells have pulled me out of the fire on numerous occasions thus far; I can't say that spamming Slicken has been nearly as satisfying.

 

Conceptually, it just doesn't make sense that the Druid should be the ultimate blaster in the game, IMO.

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Wow, the game sounds tougher than I thought. I guess I'll check out the wiki to see how everything works before I start playing. Sounds like I won't just be able to rest wherever I want to spam my spells, as I did in Baldur's Gate.

A great Let's Play that exposed me to PoE and got me hooked.

Give it a look and enjoy!! :yes:

Also with a detailed character creation to boot.

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