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Kind of disappointed how mechanics dominates the skills

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Anybody else feel like this? To me it seems it far surpasses the benefits of the other skills.

Also, I've had Aloth join in on a conversation (8 lore at that time), yet the dialogue options were restricted by my lore level... kind of underwhelming... so party member skills are solely for the passive benefits like using scrolls? kind of disappointing as well...

Still it is an awesome game!

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Party member skills are used in scripted interactions. Conversations only use PC's skills. Replayability, mang.

 

Mechanics is unusual in that yeah, you only need one lockpicker and you need to boost the bejeezus out of it for that character. Whether it's good or bad is a matter of opinion natch.

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What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

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What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

 

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

Wait... there are hidden objects besides traps which can be found only in scouting? O_O Are they important to quests or usually just some bonus items?

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mostly bonus items, though some are rather good upgrades early on. i haven't encountered any mandatory quest items yet.

good to know that the skills are used in scripted sequences, thanks, i didn't know that.

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There is one side-quest-relevant dungeon key hidden like that, but there's about four other ways into that dungeon, as well. So it's not a big deal.

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Scouting items are mostly unique items, some of them are pretty useful some of them aren't really compared to stuff you have gotten by that point and some of them are intentional jokes like "The Disappointer" pistol you can find right in beginning of the game before you are forced inside the cave

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Wait... there are hidden objects besides traps which can be found only in scouting? O_O Are they important to quests or usually just some bonus items?

 

It's bonus stuff and I've found quite a bit of it. But yeah, it's best to stay in stealth all the time and just stealth around in fast mode. Otherwise, when you're walking around out of stealth you'll miss stuff.

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What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

 

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

Wait... there are hidden objects besides traps which can be found only in scouting? O_O Are they important to quests or usually just some bonus items?

 

 

There's at least one quest that is made easier by detecting a hidden switch (and depending on another route, there's also another switch, but I only found that afterwards).

 

So, yeah, keep an eye out for the purple goodness. :)

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What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

 

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

Wait... there are hidden objects besides traps which can be found only in scouting? O_O Are they important to quests or usually just some bonus items?

 

 

There's *lots* of stuff. One thing that comes to mind is in Defiance Bay, just left to the big central stage in the first area.

 

 

It's a Statuette used to summon Beetles. It is very close to the bleachers to the left of the central stage, under one of the bricks in the road.

 

In the Temple of Eothas, you can find a secret up by the alcove/podium in one of the rooms, and there's a backdoor route to get behind some mobs if you take an immediate left as you enter the Temple.

 

 

There's secrets everywhere. By the statue where you meet Durance, a few in the Temple of Eothas, etc.

 

So I sneak every-bloody-where, with my Machinist (currently Durance, because lollogic), with Edér in front, and left and right covered by me and Pallegina, just so he can detect traps "up front".

 

The game is littered with secrets that you can only discover in Scout Mode, and even so, only with Mechanics.

 

And I think that's rubbish. Stealth should be the skill to discover hidden objects, and you should be able to discover at least non-trap ones outside of Scouting.

 

 

In at least one place, this isn't just rubbish, but a downright counter-intuitive mechanic. There's a hidden backdoor to get into the "office" of the guy you're looking for in the Stronghold (I forget his name). To discover the hidden backdoor, you need to Scout and have Mechancis... but if you have Mechanics, you could just lockpick the door right away.

 

So why is there a backdoor, from a design perspective? It's so damn herp.

 

 

Mostly you find really small treasure-troves of gems that are otherwise very rare. There are *some* quest-related (but optional) items you can find by Scouting. For example.

 

 

Also in the Temple of Eothas, there is a small library in the first area, upper part of the map, if I remember. There you can find a key to the doors that you would otherwise open by completing the Bell-puzzle. There you will also find a reference to the "end twist" of the quest.

 

Again, what does this have to do with Mechanics?

 

Nothing. This has nothing to do with Mechanics.

 

 

Scouting items are mostly unique items, some of them are pretty useful some of them aren't really compared to stuff you have gotten by that point and some of them are intentional jokes like "The Disappointer" pistol you can find right in beginning of the game before you are forced inside the cave

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, I missed it! D:

 

Also, I don't think I've found any really unique items besides the one I mentioned in Defiance Bay.

Edited by Luckmann
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@Luckmann about the second spoiler, because cutting quotes on mobile is so tedious: maybe Mechanics required for the backdoor is lower than for the front door? It would help unoptimized characters.

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I think it would be better if you found hidden objects based on skill withouth having to stealth. It feels so stupid to have fast forward enabled just to make up for the speed penaltie for stealth.

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@Luckmann about the second spoiler, because cutting quotes on mobile is so tedious: maybe Mechanics required for the backdoor is lower than for the front door? It would help unoptimized characters.

 

Well maybe, but it doesn't require that high mechanics skill either way. Also, there's already a key down a corridor. You have to fight some mobs for it, though. And the backdoor entrance requires fighting far more than getting the key does.

 

From a design perspective, it really doesn't make sense. The different options should be distinct, imo.


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Hey! I didn't realize thath mechanics helps to detect hidden stuff.

Do you know what is the most important for that: Perception, or Mechanics?

 

With the game system, my Tank is very weird. (Small Orlan fighter with MIG 2, CON 18, DEX15, PER 21, INT 3, RES 19) As she is always in front, I gave her a lot of mechanics points, so she detects, open and take everything. But she is always in stealth mode to detect things... and she always try to approach ennemies quickly... so I was thinking about giving her stealth points too... but I don't know I I will have enough point!

How many mechanics point a main picklocker/detector/hurt locker should have to be efficient during all the game? (Is there any "unlock spell" later in the game?)

 

Sure, Mechanics seems to be the best, but you need only one character with is I think. My main got a lot of Lore, but I'm not impressed. Some points in Athletics is usefull of course, but up to know I didn't get too much trouble with Fatigue. Survival is ok, but I never use cunsomable, always keeping it for harder moments, or doing other actions. (Maybe for a big figth I will need cunsomables). So, I'm not a stealth player, but maybe it could be fun. Especially because, effectively, I'm always in stealth+rapid mode to detect thnigs, and to get the first strike. :) Notice that I don't know how much skills are important for interactions;

 

PS: At the first Inn, I bought two level 1, for 250 gold each, so I made my own tank and my own priest (full MIG/DEX/Int...) I though it was the way you play the game. But I don't know if it was a good idea. Is it better to use character from the game?

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I agree, finding hidden things should have been given to Stealth and Mechanics only left for traps and locks.

Also Athletics is only one really useful to anyone while Survival is only useful to main character for interactions as food and potions are not needed.

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Well its called scouting not stealth so thats how, i assume, they get away with this awful mechanic.  At times tho it feels like they are trying to extend thier game by forcing everyone to move slowly =P

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Hey! I didn't realize thath mechanics helps to detect hidden stuff.

Do you know what is the most important for that: Perception, or Mechanics?

 

Mechanics.  Perception is irrelevant to finding things, and I've no idea why you'd think otherwise ;)

 

 

Anyway, I think the mechanics problem is a symptom of the skill system as a whole.

Lore is its own thing, and matters if you want to abuse scrolls*, but all other skills realistically top out with 3 or 4 ranks.  Taking athletics and survival up to higher ranks eats diminishing returns to the point of being utterly silly.  Stealth could matter, but realistically the need to have a couple ranks and athletics and a couple people with mechanics or lore makes party stealth a no-go.  You can have a character or two with really high stealth, but thanks to combat positioning issues, this really should be the tanks.

 

*but lore has a crapton of inherent bonuses from class and background, so if you want lore, you can have all the lore with fairly minimal investment.

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oh, I have never found a hidden item before...makes me want to go back and check~

 

Is there a full list of hidden items by area?

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oh, I have never found a hidden item before...makes me want to go back and check~

 

Is there a full list of hidden items by area?

 

None that I know of. I wish I had known about The Disappointer. D:


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I wish they would make the discovery of hidden objects based of character perception level. Why does my ability to make a spring loaded fireball allow me to spot/find a hollow atone in a wall lol.

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Here's how to play:

 

Always be on stealth mode, always be on fast mode (toggle by pressing the D key)

 

 

And yes, mechanics for detecting stuff is stupid. Perception should have been enough. Now you're forced to make your ranger/whatever an expert machinist.

Unintuitive as all f...  for this and other unintuitive crap i rerolled

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oh, I have never found a hidden item before...makes me want to go back and check~

 

Is there a full list of hidden items by area?

 

All hidden item locations are listed in the game official strategy guide

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What annoys the hell out of me is that you have to Scout to look for hidden objects, and effectiveness is determined by Mechanics.

 

I would have preferred it if you could detect at any time, and if it was determined by Stealth. At least Hidden Objects, if not traps.

Some of the hidden objects can be detected at any time (eg. for Scepter quest in Defiance Bay - plenty of people got problems with solving it). It's not an universal rule that hidden objects are always hidden in a way that you detect them with perception skill.

 

Also this mechanic is perfectly consistent with the rest of a game. Instead of idiotic lockpicking minigame Skyrim-style unlocks are determined by your character skills. Same with dialogs, and all the other stuff.

 

It's great. I like it. Makes it much easier to roleplay anyone in-universe with a character instead of having you, the player, gaming the mechanics and giving your character skills it shouldn't have.

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And yes, mechanics for detecting stuff is stupid. Perception should have been enough. Now you're forced to make your ranger/whatever an expert machinist.

Or you could just use one of your companions for that....

 

Also - you know that the game won't collapse if you will not discover every single hidden item that exists in there, do you? Cause I have a very strong impression that you don't.

Edited by Sky_walker

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