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Always running back to the inn... (Suggestion)

suggestion gameplay camping

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#21
speeder

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Wasting 5 minutes going back and forth to save 150 copper is basically running a deficit, because in that 5 minutes you could easily earn 150 copper exploring, looting, killing. It's like taking an unpaid leave from your workplace to go to the store and get that 50% sale on a loaf of bread. There is no incentive to waste time this way.


That is, of course, more true later in the game. But you're forgetting that (at least as far in the game as I've played) there is no renewable source of income, so it's not a completely fair comparison. It would suck to miss buying that great late-game item for your character by 86 copper because you camped one too many times. You're also forgetting the other incentives the game provides for running to town.

 

 

Yeah. That's not going to happen, not unless you're buying 300 camping supplies. By the way, the stronghold is a renewable source of income to infinity in the form of taxes. Given that you get several hundred copper, It simply isn't a valid calculation. 

 

Of course there are other incentives for visiting town/stronghold. You're meant to have gameplay - it would suck if there were no reasons to visit the stronghold. The point is that there isn't a strong incentive to keep running back to town in the middle of a dungeon just to sleep at an inn and save your 75 copper. 

 

I've just gone through 4 levels of Od Nua without running back to town. That's not because I'm awesome (people will play on different difficulties with different sized and composed parties). I just find that when I try to go as many battles as possible without resting it adds to the tension, it adds to the tactical diversity (if Eder is on 2 health I can't frontline him like I always do), and it adds to the fun. 

 

I'm sure somebody will make a rest-anywhere mod, of course, so that if you want to rest after every battle, or whatever other combination, you can.

 

I am currently annoyed that money is finite.

 

How you get infinite money with the stronghold? I thought that you could only get taxes after a number of quests (and obviously those are limited, or there are repeatable quests? Or randomly generated quests?)



#22
Gfted1

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Sensuki, hallowed be his name, made a Camping Supply mod. :bow:  Run, don't walk, to get it.


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#23
Archaven

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This seems more ilke a hassle than increasing the difficulty for the players. Some character classes such as wizard after using all his/her spells they are just plain useless acting as meat slaughters.

 

I understand the camping supplies are supposed to add a layer of difficulty where when you enter this location and you are limited to x amount of supplies. If you can't make it out then you will have to start and plan all over with your limited supplies.

 

But this is not working at all for Wizards.

 

I would suggest that maybe they can increase Wizard mechanics like doubling or tripling their castings per rest and increase the camping supplies limit. But they are still fricking useless compared to a Cipher. Just why not allow their low-mid spells to be per encounter and high level ones per rest?


Edited by Archaven, 30 March 2015 - 06:56 AM.


#24
Illuminaire

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A better player will have less time spent on his playthrough. So the only thing it does, i a sort of bragging rights if you managed to minimze rest and travel times on quests/side quests.

Personally it challenges me to be mindful of my resources, even if there is no real in-game penalty for running to the inn all the time. Also you find 1-2 camp supplies in every dungeon which most of the time I didnt even need.

 

It feels very rewarding getting to a sort of boss encounter with minimum resources and 1 camp fire left. Rest up and throw everything at the encounter. 

 

The trash mobs will always be dealt with minimal resources (per rest abilities and health) spent. The gamechangers will only be brought to fights where they are needed. It works quite well. It's an indirect push into the direction, the devs want you to take when tackling the encounters.



#25
IvoryOwl

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The game HAS incentives for sleeping in a room (aka long-lasting buffs) but I don't think there's enough incentive to convince lazy players to go back and forth. I'm not even sure incentives is what we need here. What we DO need is a better camping supply cap (or the removal of it) and , IMO,  easy difficulty should't have a limit.


Edited by IvoryOwl, 30 March 2015 - 07:17 AM.


#26
Tigranes

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Wasting 5 minutes going back and forth to save 150 copper is basically running a deficit, because in that 5 minutes you could easily earn 150 copper exploring, looting, killing. It's like taking an unpaid leave from your workplace to go to the store and get that 50% sale on a loaf of bread. There is no incentive to waste time this way.


That is, of course, more true later in the game. But you're forgetting that (at least as far in the game as I've played) there is no renewable source of income, so it's not a completely fair comparison. It would suck to miss buying that great late-game item for your character by 86 copper because you camped one too many times. You're also forgetting the other incentives the game provides for running to town.

 

 

Yeah. That's not going to happen, not unless you're buying 300 camping supplies. By the way, the stronghold is a renewable source of income to infinity in the form of taxes. Given that you get several hundred copper, It simply isn't a valid calculation. 

 

Of course there are other incentives for visiting town/stronghold. You're meant to have gameplay - it would suck if there were no reasons to visit the stronghold. The point is that there isn't a strong incentive to keep running back to town in the middle of a dungeon just to sleep at an inn and save your 75 copper. 

 

I've just gone through 4 levels of Od Nua without running back to town. That's not because I'm awesome (people will play on different difficulties with different sized and composed parties). I just find that when I try to go as many battles as possible without resting it adds to the tension, it adds to the tactical diversity (if Eder is on 2 health I can't frontline him like I always do), and it adds to the fun. 

 

I'm sure somebody will make a rest-anywhere mod, of course, so that if you want to rest after every battle, or whatever other combination, you can.

 

I am currently annoyed that money is finite.

 

How you get infinite money with the stronghold? I thought that you could only get taxes after a number of quests (and obviously those are limited, or there are repeatable quests? Or randomly generated quests?)

 

 

Good point, I thought taxes (as opposed to adventures) were tied to game time and not quest time, but I could be wrong. Still, the point stands that given how much money you earn from every source, I'd pay a hundred bucks to see anyone who was truly cheated out of something because they used all the money in the world after buying a million camping supplies.

 

 

This seems more ilke a hassle than increasing the difficulty for the players. Some character classes such as wizard after using all his/her spells they are just plain useless acting as meat slaughters.

 

I understand the camping supplies are supposed to add a layer of difficulty where when you enter this location and you are limited to x amount of supplies. If you can't make it out then you will have to start and plan all over with your limited supplies.

 

But this is not working at all for Wizards.

 

I would suggest that maybe they can increase Wizard mechanics like doubling or tripling their castings per rest and increase the camping supplies limit. But they are still fricking useless compared to a Cipher. Just why not allow their low-mid spells to be per encounter and high level ones per rest?

 

It does increase difficulty - you just described how it increases difficulty. It's actually a problem right now that classes like cipher after a while can just spam their best abilities each encounter with their starting focus, because that's the kind of stuff camping supplies should prevent. 

 

Your proposed solution of tripling their castings per rest would make the per-rest limitation utterly redundant. That would just mean your wizard can cast whatever spell he wants however as often he wants every single battle. That's the kind of boring "make every battle the same pushover" that camping supplies prevents. 

 

(Of course, this doesn't mean the classes shouldn't be rebalanced.)



#27
Archaven

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A better player will have less time spent on his playthrough. So the only thing it does, i a sort of bragging rights if you managed to minimze rest and travel times on quests/side quests.

Personally it challenges me to be mindful of my resources, even if there is no real in-game penalty for running to the inn all the time. Also you find 1-2 camp supplies in every dungeon which most of the time I didnt even need.

 

It feels very rewarding getting to a sort of boss encounter with minimum resources and 1 camp fire left. Rest up and throw everything at the encounter. 

 

The trash mobs will always be dealt with minimal resources (per rest abilities and health) spent. The gamechangers will only be brought to fights where they are needed. It works quite well. It's an indirect push into the direction, the devs want you to take when tackling the encounters.

 

I think the idea for this limited camping supplies was to add a layer of difficulty, challenge and introduces proper planning or strategy for say a location or level. It's also to add a sense of achievement as a reward if let's say you are limited to 3 camping supplies and you enter this cave, and once entered the cave, rocks fell and block the entrance and you can't go back until you clear all the cave and find a way out with that limited 3 camping supplies.

 

With such restrictions, this will forced players to plan and strategize every battle and encounters while inside the cave and play in best efficiency to make it out. This provides a sense of challenge and satisfactions if players managed to complete the cave.

 

But i don't see this working with some classes that are underwhelmingly useless like Wizard compared to other classes such as Cipher and with that limited 2 camping supplies. Its just more hassle than adding a sense of challenge.


Edited by Archaven, 30 March 2015 - 07:10 AM.


#28
Jimmious

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I think a mechanic like increasing the difficulty of the remaining encounters of the area in case you leave it (when they are "connected") would be a solution.
For example if you are in a Keep slaughtering everyone and then you decide to leave to go to an inn and come back, the rest of the guard encounters should become harder.


Edited by Jimmious, 30 March 2015 - 07:10 AM.


#29
omgFIREBALLS

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A better player will have less time spent on his playthrough.

Word.

 

I'm aiming to take on PotD (with both the painful condiments) one day. Now I've no idea how difficult it is, but if it's a real nutbuster, I could theoretically blow every per-rest ability on every fight and go back to the Black Hound and rest for free. And I'd obviously get some infinite rest mod instead of actually enduring that =.=

 

I'm not a fan of the camping supplies mechanic. The real epeen is indeed how little time you spend on your playthrough.


Edited by omgFIREBALLS, 30 March 2015 - 07:12 AM.


#30
Tigranes

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That too would be an interesting idea - though the player who is wasting time running back to the inn is probably not as good (or his party is not as well equipped to deal with) that area, so they might truly get into a spiral where they come back and it becomes impossible for them. 

 

Camping supplies is actually the 'weakest' of the many ways in which resting can be limited (e.g. not allowing any resting in dungeon areas, Jimmious' solution...)



#31
Gfted1

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I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock. :yes:



#32
Tigranes

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I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock. :yes:

 

Isn't there god mode on the console? You'd think that's the first thing they put in, just for you.  :dancing:



#33
Killyox

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Sensuki, hallowed be his name, made a Camping Supply mod. :bow:  Run, don't walk, to get it.

I will pass :p



#34
Gfted1

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I wonder if someone could mod in an item that just continuously outputs a Healing wave as an aura. That would rock. :yes:

 

Isn't there god mode on the console? You'd think that's the first thing they put in, just for you.  :dancing:

 

 

Sadly, I don't think there is a god mode. :(

 

Glancing through the cheat code thread it seems like you can perform individual character Healing but no party Healing or God mode. But that's just from a quick looksee. If ANYONE knows how to enable a God Mode or party wide Healing please let me know ASAP. I haven't even been able to overcome my inertia and start the game since I had such an unfun time playing the Beta.



#35
TimTumm

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I like the camping limitation.

 

No spoilers.  I "started" in the middle of a dungeon and had to walk out.  The dungeon was ober my level, and I had to skirt around mobs just to find my way out.  The fights I was forced to fight used up all my camping supplies and my wounded/maimed party finally made it back to the inn hours later.  It was one of my most memorable rpg experiences.  Mark that under emergent bahvior.



#36
Ink Blot

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Sadly, I don't think there is a god mode. :(

 

Glancing through the cheat code thread it seems like you can perform individual character Healing but no party Healing or God mode. But that's just from a quick looksee. If ANYONE knows how to enable a God Mode or party wide Healing please let me know ASAP. I haven't even been able to overcome my inertia and start the game since I had such an unfun time playing the Beta.

 

Try toggling the console on, then enter simply 'God' without the quotes. A quick search turned that up, but I haven't tested it.

 

'Rest' supposedly forces the party to rest without using camping supplies.


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#37
Ink Blot

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I like the camping limitation.

 

No spoilers.  I "started" in the middle of a dungeon and had to walk out.  The dungeon was ober my level, and I had to skirt around mobs just to find my way out.  The fights I was forced to fight used up all my camping supplies and my wounded/maimed party finally made it back to the inn hours later.  It was one of my most memorable rpg experiences.  Mark that under emergent bahvior.

Just had a similar experience. Three character party and took on a tough encounter. Probably should have suffered a TPK, but I used some scrolls and positioning and got pretty lucky, I believe. Had to use my last bundle of supplies right after, as my tank was down to 8 HP. Took a walk back to town to grab more supplies. Pretty cool, pretty fun, and quite memorable.



#38
Gfted1

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Try toggling the console on, then enter simply 'God' without the quotes. A quick search turned that up, but I haven't tested it.

'Rest' supposedly forces the party to rest without using camping supplies.


Thanks! If that "God" works l'll be thrilled! 
 
Iirc, the "Rest" is for individual party members, not the whole party at once, so kinda a pita.

#39
RedSocialKnight

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I agree. A choice between spending ingame resources and accepting inconvenience and busywork is not one the player should be faced with.

 

The inn should not be free, but camping supplies should be priced more affordably.

 

For potential cases where the player runs out of money but absolutely needs to rest, there could be a free charity hostel that comes with penalties (to stats or reputation) that would be useful for emergencies but did not incentivize constant penny-pinching runs back to town.

 

For clarity:

 

I like the camping limitation.

 

So do I. What I don't like is the way you can get around it by accepting a less-fun style of play (running back to the inn every night).


Edited by RedSocialKnight, 30 March 2015 - 09:46 AM.


#40
Tigranes

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I had that same situation TimTumm described, and it was great fun. I didn't expect it to happen and then after that I had to calculate carefully what resources I would use when to make sure I would get out in good shape. Sometimes I would have to fight with Eder on 2 health, making me change my whole strategy, and deciding when to rest was a big deal. If I could rest after every battle it would have been a boring series of rinse and repeats.

 

Once again, there is no 'incentive' to run back to town to pinch pennies unless you're really bad at calculating costs and benefits. You earn enough money for a camping supply roughly every other barrel or every three or four xaurips felled. There is no choice here that encourages inconvenience and busywork. The only thing that encourages inconvenience is the player's own stubborn determination that he/she really really wants to save 75 copper by running around for 5 minutes - when in the same time the player could easily earn several hundred copper.

 

It's like complaining McDonald's incentivises you to run to their restaurant every time you want a tissue, because their tissues are free.







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