Jump to content

Journalism and bias in the gaming industry


Blarghagh

Recommended Posts

 
For the uninitiated: The 'Gamergate' controversy was sparked in early 2013, as the release of Zoe Quinn's "Depression Quest" was criticized from gamers who believed that the game had received a suspicious amount of attention in relation to it's quality and scope. Eron Gjoni (Zoe's ex boyfriend) wrote a blogpost accusing Quinn of having had an affair with Kotaku journalist Grayson, prompting the critics to conclude that the attention and success of "Depression Quest" was due in part to unfair bias and nepotism in the industry.

 

Several articles from both sides of the issue has highlighted inconsistencies in the stories of both Grayson, Quinn and Eron as well as the many other examples that have followed.

 

 

Gamergate is wideley seen in the public, as a culture war over the diversification of gaming, artistic recognition and social criticism of video games and the gamer social identity.

 

 

 

For the posters in this thread:

Many bloggers and populists have tried to steer the discussion into areas they feel are the underlying issue - ranging from simple bias, to widespread misogny or misandry. I would however prefer that we keep this discussion as objective and clean as possible and so I will be keeping an a extra close eye on this thread. This certainly does not mean that you may not discuss any issue you feel, but rather that you should be thoughtful of  how  you discuss it with those you disagree with.

Especially in regards to these three guidelines:

 

Discrimination: Obsidian has a zero-tolerance policy with regard to racial, ethnic, gender, religious, disablement, and/or sexually discriminating remarks.

Harassment: We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ. Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated. In addition, Obsidian does not tolerate disrespectful and/or slanderous posts about its competitors, developers and publishers. Such posts will be subject to editing or deleting, with its posters censured or banned.

 

Objectionable Content: The use of abusive, vulgar or profane language, even if hidden through the use of symbols or other characters is not tolerated. Intentionally posting workarounds to our language filters are prohibited. Posts may be edited or deleted at any time by the moderation team, and depending on the severity and frequency of said posts, the poster may be censured or banned.

 

Any posts in violation of the Forum Guidelines will either be removed or modified and authors of such posts will receive warnings and/or have their content placed under moderated review.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The outcry over the silly gravestone or whatever is silly. It is such an irrelevant throw away line. Getting all triggered over it shows how weak and pathetic a person is.

 

\On top of that, to me, it shows how the character who committed suicide over such an unfortunate event is weak. To kill yourself over that is pathetic.

 

Oh noess... KI just triggered someone who is pro suicide!

  • Like 1

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's pathetic i've got to agree, a joke that is widely prevalant and seen everywhere from on television to banter down the local is now taken seriously? I swear that the Life of Brian would never get made if these humourless, insecure and desperate to be offended people had the the power we give them now.

 

Meanwhile lying about people whom are moderates asking for reasonable actions, and calling them sexist, racist, misogynist, neckbeards and much worse is considered to be perfectly acceptable. Then again what would I know i'm a subhuman untermensch for asking journalists to do their jobs. Censor away.

Edited by Nonek

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way I looked at KiA and someone posted this up

 

http://imgur.com/UZ9jjWn

 

The guy doing it is a literal fascist.

And that's not even counting banana nazi.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It probably would have been sensible to exclude the PoE poem beforehand, this sort of controversy does not have a happy resolution for Obsidian since either the censorship or anti censorship will get upset whatever the response now.

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

 

That's pretty much my argument.  The guy kills himself, he's hardly the hero.  It's a bit of dark comedy that really is more of a commentary on the misguided notion that your conquests in the bedroom define you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It probably would have been sensible to exclude the PoE poem beforehand, this sort of controversy does not have a happy resolution for Obsidian since either the censorship or anti censorship will get upset whatever the response now.

 

Still, the poem itself is pretty harmless overall. While I can see how it could be seen as transphobic arguably its inference that heterosexual men are so insecure in their sexuality that inadvertent exposure to dong would make them kill themselves is at least as potentially offensive, so it's balanced.

 

(Good thing Croc Dundee came out decades ago, I can only imagine the reaction to its 'transphobia' now)

Sensible is not making a fuss over every offense, I don't sensible solutions work with the mentally ill.

 

Quite frankly, I'm still wishing that the world will collectively tell these people to go **** themselves so we can regain some semblance of sanity where not everything has to be looked through the lens of an alternative value system. But every time they do this more people back down due to the pressure and lend their value system more credence, yet their every victory has the taint of the means they used to achieve it. Now I can't stop making everything political, they make gender and sexual orientation as divisive as left and right wing politics are. These people should not be listened to, they should just be ignored.

 

Edit: not by us mind you, but by the people they are trying to bully into changing.

Edited by Orogun01
  • Like 2
I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The news love the outrage industry as it pays in good rating and dollars.

 

I hope for a world where people collectively join hands, pointing and laughing at these kinds of people.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, Cheong is angry about this, excellent, can have fun with that later. I'm not seeing how this is promoting hatred of trans people any more than "Dude Looked Like A Lady" or "Lola" does.

 

Real molehill though, I did like the person who originated this pathetically begging Cross to speak up on it though, heh.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was curious to see what the reaction to this would be here.

 

If you believe the contributors should have had carte blanche to write whatever they want with no oversight from Obsidian, then that's fine. It's a position we disagree on. I suspect they didn't let people write anything they wanted and that the submissions were vetted, so I'd need to know what Obsidian did in those cases, because I suspect it was probably a mistake.

 

We know they did vet the tombstones.

 

What I don't get is, specifically, what the problem with this tombstone is.  Are we saying that in-game characters can't be transphobic?  Homophobic?  Racist?  In other words (even though this is backer content) why does an in-game character being clearly transphobic* (to the point of killing themselves - not the trans in question) translate to Obsidian as a company, individual employees - or even the backer who made that content - being transphobes (or anti-trans) themselves?

 

Because this kind of corollary logic (it exists in the game, therefore the makers of the game support this) is pretty unsupportable, IMO.

 

Spoiler for POE:

 

Using this logic, you could argue that Obsidian is racist because they show lynching in the first village the PC finds and as added fuel, Eder's has a "debate" with the PC over whether to count the lynched dwarf as half a person.  SInce Obsidian let this content through, they are clearly racists using lynching images and debating about "others" being subhuman as an allegory for their own racism and hate in their real life**

 

 

*I suppose this is transvestite phobic since the guy was able to find out she was a man.  I haven't played PoE long enough to know whether the setting supports transexuality or not to be honest, but if magic can make someone a woman, I'm not sure how you'd find out she had ever been anything other than a woman.

 

**Obviously I don't think this is true, but this is why I think this kind of argument is a slippery slope.

Edited by Amentep

I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

What I don't get is, specifically, what the problem with this tombstone is.  

There is none, if you're a reasonable person.  It's a silly limerick (limericks are, by their nature, often obscene) about a fictional person who's transphobic.  The joke is at his expense.  More importantly, it's just a joke.

 

 

Are we saying that in-game characters can't be transphobic?  Homophobic?  Racist? 

 

Not us, that's what the bullies are saying.  They want to homogenize all media to their liking.

  • Like 2

sky_twister_suzu.gif.bca4b31c6a14735a9a4b5a279a428774.gif
🇺🇸RFK Jr 2024🇺🇸

"Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not us

Seemed very much like that Alan did feel that way, which is why I wanted to quote his response. He probably won't have time to respond, but I think its a valid question regardless.

I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched The Crying Game last night because that limerick reminded me of it. Would be a shame to see certain things not explored in art because someone is offended by something. Such as To Kill a Mocking Bird, because blacks being wrongly convicted has happened.

 

If you haven't watched The Crying Game I highly recommend it, btw.

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Not us

Seemed very much like that Alan did feel that way, which is why I wanted to quote his response. He probably won't have time to respond, but I think its a valid question regardless.

 

Well, to me it seems like Alan is being an apologist for the bullies.  While I don't think his motives are bad, nor do I think he realizes he's helping to spread bullying and terror, he's just trying to be sensitive to their feels, the fact is that apologists for the scumbags driving today's shaming culture are enabling them and indirectly helping the spread of shaming culture.

 

The people driving shaming culture are bullies.  They use fear and intimidation to make others submit to their demands at the threat of having their livelihood ruined; many have had their livelihood ruined, even after they submitted to the bullies demands.  Some of these people, no doubt, derive great pleasure from ruining other people's lives.  These people are monsters.  They do not deserve to be apologized for.  They do not deserve our pity.  They deserve ridicule and contempt.

  • Like 1

sky_twister_suzu.gif.bca4b31c6a14735a9a4b5a279a428774.gif
🇺🇸RFK Jr 2024🇺🇸

"Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

  • Like 5

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

Thanks a lot ****lord, now I'm gonna have to listen to Dubliners when I go running.

Edited by Gorth
Language
  • Like 2

"Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic

"I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus

"Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander

"Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador

"You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort

"thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex

"Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock

"Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco

"we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii

"I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing

"feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth

"Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi

"Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor

"I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine

"Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this continues, we might as well ban history and folklore all together. I mean, what kind of misogynist and phobist wrote a song like this?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9rAj-WtGng

Dammit, Meshugger, I'm TRIGGERED...  Triggered into a desire to listen to more Dubliners.  :yes:

  • Like 1

sky_twister_suzu.gif.bca4b31c6a14735a9a4b5a279a428774.gif
🇺🇸RFK Jr 2024🇺🇸

"Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me it's simple, the limerick did not in any way depict harming or degrading the man whom the other man buggered, also I would oppose a Neo Nazi and a genocide advocate no matter what they suggested. If I ever got to the point where I found myself supporting such people then I would have to take a long hard look at my life and figure out what went wrong.

  • Like 1

Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love all the outrage. "Wut? Dis in gaem? Now I will not buy it anymore!" Pretty sure none of them would have bought it in the first place anyway.

Edited by Lexx
  • Like 1

"only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I do wonder what percentage of the people getting bent out of shape over the limerick:

 

1) Are current Obsidian Entertainment customers

2) Have at any point been Obsidian Entertainment customers

3) Would ever be Obsidian Entertainment customers in the future if they are placated

 

We'll almost certainly never get the true answer, but I bet that if you added the percentages of 1, 2, and 3 together it would be in the single digits.

Edited by Keyrock

sky_twister_suzu.gif.bca4b31c6a14735a9a4b5a279a428774.gif
🇺🇸RFK Jr 2024🇺🇸

"Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...