mekky Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I think I have an idea that would please everyone in this situation. Make a toggle for all backer content. If you don't want to see backer content, then just make an option to hide it. But don't delete it from the game as a whole. What do you guys think? This would actually be a really good idea. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansen Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ragnar the Red springs to mind - But I guess anything can be considered offensive to someone, somewhere these days... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeslieLightning Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeslieLightning Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No, transwomen are women 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpmartins Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 A link for the easily offended: https://twitter.com/ScottMadin/with_replies He created a fan-patch to remove the content. “Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed. “He once was alive, but now he’s dead. “The last woman he bedded, turned out a man “And crying in shame, off a cliff he ran.” Firedorn. Bard, transmysogynistic scatlord, skeleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuxhero Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) You have to be truely selfish and ignorant to think your people are the only people anywhere who face any form of discrimination. I think I have an idea that would please everyone in this situation. Make a toggle for all backer content. If you don't want to see backer content, then just make an option to hide it. But don't delete it from the game as a whole. What do you guys think? From what I've seen most of the backer content seems to be especially horribly written and out of tone with the rest of the game from what I've seen (Only the RPGCodex's club seems to be subtle enough to not scream THIS WAS WRITTEN BY SOMEONE ELSE ENTIRELY ), so seems good. Edited March 29, 2015 by deuxhero Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansen Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere I'm going to have to call you out on that one - So by your logic nothing is allowed, anywhere? Because I'll bet you that we can find plenty of examples of harmless jokes aimed at any culture, sexual preference and even race in the world. Now and then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere Well then fight with that, and not with things that have nothing to do with any of it. But yes, shouting on the einternet is easy, and actually doing something about the real stuff is much, much harder. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Evenstar Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 "Our" demands? All most people want is for the game to stand as-is. For Obsidian to not just let some hyper-offended people be the gatekeepers of what is and isn't allowed. I think it's stupid that people are coming here just to say "don't cave," as if the intent wasn't to get Obsidian to cave to YOUR demands instead. You know what else would be censorship? If they told a backer "no, you can't put that racial slur in your message." Censorship is not inherently evil; context matters. Yes, yes it is. Even if it was disgusting, even if you didn't agree with it, it should be allowed. If only so that you can prove just how stupid it is. Yeah no, they shouldn't be publishing hypothetical racial slurs in their game just to appease some hypothetical backer. And again, censorship is still wrong. Even if it is abbhorrent, people should be allowed to say it, so that people who are smart can refute it. I'm not saying racials slurs are a GOOD thing, I'm saying if someone spent upwards of 500 dollars, and there was no refund coming, then yes, in this hypothetical situation, he can put what he wants in his gravestone. As I recall the Kickstarter, Obsidian always reserved right-of-approval over backer submitted content. You didn't pay to have a specific text included. The opportunity to negotiate the content of a memorial was part of the reward for specific tiers. It was never a backer right to force the inclusion of offensive text. Whether the specific text in question should have been allowed is a separate issue, but I think all the pontificating about backer rights is out of place. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mekky Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere Let me ask you how you know what kind of person I am and what I've experienced in my life. Writing that is incredibly biased of you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deuxhero Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Did is reserve the right to retract approval? Never negotiate. You will only encourage more acts of terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere I'm going to have to call you out on that one - So by your logic nothing is allowed, anywhere? Because I'll bet you that we can find plenty of examples of harmless jokes aimed at any culture, sexual preference and even race in the world. Now and then. Personally I'm not a big fan of kicking people who are already down, particularly when it's a group that has a near 50% lifetime suicide rate. Ten times the US average. Stuff like this, the "it's just a joke, stop being so easily offended, man up," it matters because it contributes to that. It's not harmless because it is a part of the larger societal treatment that is ultimately a major factor in driving people to kill themselves. And with that, I'm bowing out of this discussion because I'm getting too upset myself, now. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Memorials aren't content that Obsidian produced themselves, but content that was produced backers on backer tiers $500+. I think that part of Obsidian's instructions for memorials was that they should not have foul language, slurs or otherwise offensive content. In this particular case, I would say that Obsidian should remove or edit message if they find it to be offensive (people's opinions, including mine, on how offensive or inoffensive memorial is shouldn't carry much of weight in this decision), as it is their game and it would be quite unfair for one backer get special privileges that others with same reward didn't get. In general I don't like see content, even offensive, removed from game or any other piece of art, but creator(s) of should always have right to edit their work if they find that something don't produce image that they wanted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flouride Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I personally didn't find it offensive, but then again I'm not a transgender girl/male and just thought it was a stupid/pointless joke about a drunken fool. I did ask my transgender friend and she didn't quite like it.Even if it's offensive or not, I find all the raging over it being blown out of proportion. But I guess it's just so cool to rage over something over the Internet these days instead of just contacting the developer in quiet and asking them about it directly. She got her 15 minutes of fame at least out of it and bunch of new twitter friends/haters. *shrug* 3 Hate the living, love the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not an issue. Only crybabies worry about such small potatoes. if anything the tombstone is making fun of a man who would kill themselves over such a situation as it paints them as wussies and cowards. Oh noess.. TRIGGERED pro suiciders. Obsidian did NOTHING wrong here. 4 DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuring Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 "Our" demands? All most people want is for the game to stand as-is. For Obsidian to not just let some hyper-offended people be the gatekeepers of what is and isn't allowed. I think it's stupid that people are coming here just to say "don't cave," as if the intent wasn't to get Obsidian to cave to YOUR demands instead. You know what else would be censorship? If they told a backer "no, you can't put that racial slur in your message." Censorship is not inherently evil; context matters. Yes, yes it is. Even if it was disgusting, even if you didn't agree with it, it should be allowed. If only so that you can prove just how stupid it is. Yeah no, they shouldn't be publishing hypothetical racial slurs in their game just to appease some hypothetical backer. And again, censorship is still wrong. Even if it is abbhorrent, people should be allowed to say it, so that people who are smart can refute it. I'm not saying racials slurs are a GOOD thing, I'm saying if someone spent upwards of 500 dollars, and there was no refund coming, then yes, in this hypothetical situation, he can put what he wants in his gravestone. As I recall the Kickstarter, Obsidian always reserved right-of-approval over backer submitted content. You didn't pay to have a specific text included. The opportunity to negotiate the content of a memorial was part of the reward for specific tiers. It was never a backer right to force the inclusion of offensive text. Whether the specific text in question should have been allowed is a separate issue, but I think all the pontificating about backer rights is out of place. So by this logic, didn't Obsidian already approve of this piece of content? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsuelm Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Thread pruned. While I don't believe this lymerick was transphobic myself, the actual transphobia in this thread such as suggesting killing trans people or telling a transwoman to man up is absolutely out of line and will be removed and subject to warnings. Don't let it happen again. You're far too sensitive. There is no 'transphobia' in this thread, nor was there before, nor is there any in the limerick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyrhet Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Talk about being overly sensitive. Also, "transphobic" isn`t a proper word. And even if it was it doesn`t apply here. A phobia means an irrational fear of something. Making a joke at somebody else`s expense therefore does not make you phobic. Sigh...Can`t you at least get a dictionary before you start complaining about nonsense? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/transphobia http://dot429.com/articles/2486-transphobic-officially-added-to-oxford-english-dictionary http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/transphobia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourVoiceisAmbrosia Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere I'm going to have to call you out on that one - So by your logic nothing is allowed, anywhere? Because I'll bet you that we can find plenty of examples of harmless jokes aimed at any culture, sexual preference and even race in the world. Now and then. Personally I'm not a big fan of kicking people who are already down, particularly when it's a group that has a near 50% lifetime suicide rate. Ten times the US average. Stuff like this, the "it's just a joke, stop being so easily offended, man up," it matters because it contributes to that. It's not harmless because it is a part of the larger societal treatment that is ultimately a major factor in driving people to kill themselves. And with that, I'm bowing out of this discussion because I'm getting too upset myself, now. So then why is portraying mass genocide and all of the other bigotry in the game perfectly fine? The first town is filled with corpses from people who were hung, and it's also clear that anyone who worships Eothas is heavily discriminated against. There was also a woman who was raped when you go to Caed Nua. Portraying these are okay, but one limerick in a memorial is offensive? Edited March 29, 2015 by YourVoiceisAmbrosia 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xatulu Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well. Apparantly we now have a fan patch. No need for Obsidian to do anything. If the people want to remove it, they can mod their game. Easy as that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fade_ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Full time lurker inspired to post about this. I pray that Obsidian actually listens to the majority of their backers on this and don't change the content. It seems that there's a large group of people that are just looking for the next thing to be "outraged" about and I doubt they were planning on buying the game anyway. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 and I doubt they were planning on buying the game anyway. If they even know what Pillars of Eternity is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruzen Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) What If a religious person offended by this game? Edited March 29, 2015 by ruzen 2 Kana - "Sorry. It seems I'm not very good at raising spirits." Kana winces. "That was unintentional." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsuelm Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I have yet to see how this is transphobic. Apparently buzzwords alone are enough to make a case now. Pretty much just allude to anything even remotely to do with trans-anything in any manner other than saying it's awesome/good/fine, and some folks will go out their way to be insulted and accuse others of 'transphobia'. The really bad thing is that we've reached a point in our society where such asinine things are not only given an ear, but rule the day. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpmartins Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 It is really easy to say that it shouldn't be removed when you aren't the butt of constant jokes, threats of violence, discrimination in housing, employment, and elsewhere I'm going to have to call you out on that one - So by your logic nothing is allowed, anywhere? Because I'll bet you that we can find plenty of examples of harmless jokes aimed at any culture, sexual preference and even race in the world. Now and then. Personally I'm not a big fan of kicking people who are already down, particularly when it's a group that has a near 50% lifetime suicide rate. Ten times the US average. Stuff like this, the "it's just a joke, stop being so easily offended, man up," it matters because it contributes to that. It's not harmless because it is a part of the larger societal treatment that is ultimately a major factor in driving people to kill themselves. And with that, I'm bowing out of this discussion because I'm getting too upset myself, now. Jokes at expense of some else's situation is not the same as kicking them down. You are vastly conflating the issue. 2 “Here lies Firedorn, a hero in bed. “He once was alive, but now he’s dead. “The last woman he bedded, turned out a man “And crying in shame, off a cliff he ran.” Firedorn. Bard, transmysogynistic scatlord, skeleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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