Level Cap

[Canzi]

 

I think the design works great, it leaves room for a sequel/expansion in which we may get to see those higher level spells, and also adds to the feeling that world is bigger than what you see, there are more powerful spells out there

 

 

And how long will we have to wait for the sequel? Besides purpose of that "room for sequel' is only to squeeze more money from players, not to make the game better.  For me this product  feels a bit unfinished. Sad because I love this game

[Blovski]

Yeah, also, with soloing the game at 50% more XP now. That'd be a *lot* of development if you want to cater to absolutely everyone. I sort of agree you hit the cap a little early but I understand why you need limits both from a reasonable use of development time and a credible endgame challenge thing.

[Sleazebag]

I'll hazard a guess that if there was no level cap people would be complaining about being far too high level for the main game's end content, because they did every single side quest in the game.

 

And before anyone goes "well then just make it so that side quests combined with the main quest lead you to a specific level fit for that content" - then you have the problem of players being forced to do side quests. And no, scaling of enemies to your level is not a solution. Large majority of pc gamers seem to hate level scaling anyway.

 

And like mentioned before, the game is going to have an expansion and a sequel. We don't know if the sequel will use the watcher as the protagonist, but the expansion will and the level cap will almost certainly be raised.

[Ceranai]

There are plenty of games out there that have level caps, its all about endgame content. IMO the devs obviously wanted the end boss to always be difficult, a lot of players are completonists so will have done most if not all of the side quests, without a cap the end boss would become too easy for a significant portion of the player base

[vyvexthorne]

I like playing both ways. I always like to play the game as intended my first run. But then after that.. I usually want to be god on my subsequent plays. It's been a very, very long time since I've played BG without the exp cap remover. Like most people, I really don't like hitting the xp/level cap before the end of the game. However, I think that most of us who are completionists are maybe a niche crowd when compared to how most others play these types of games. So I understand why they base the finale on a level that they'd think we'd be at if we just did the main story and didn't do all the minor quests and exploring. The only way I see that this could be solved is by making two different modes that you could toggle off and on. A "story mode" and a "completionist mode" that would appropriately set the game to allow for more or less xp or up the difficulty of end level enemies or something. Really hard thing to balance out though.

[Edvin]

Is true that due to content is lvl cap set too low, but due to the power of magic is far too high.
Game is simply too easy even on hard difficulty. Suitable lvl cap shoud be lvl 6-8
Even Adra dragon is weak, you need only tank and mage and she is dead during one minute.

Bosses should receive a significant bonus to life and attack.
Then we can increase lvl cap.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Edvin

[Lucinius]

Imo, the problem isn't that level 12 is too low of a level cap, but that the experience required per level is too low. Currently, the formula is very simple, every level adds 1000 experience to a growing number tacked on, starting at 2000 when you hit level 2 and is added to the experience required to hit the previous level as shown here;

 

Level 2: 1000

Level 3: 3000 (1000+2000)

Level 4: 6000 (3000+3000)

Level 5: 10000 (6000+4000)

Level 6: 15000

Level 7: 21000

Level 8: 28000

Level 9: 36000

Level 10: 45000

Level 11: 55000

Level 12: 66000

 

The problem is fairly clear; the amount of experience required as you go up in levels simply doesn't increase enough. This leads to hitting the level cap comparatively early in the game. Now, this probably was done to give the player a constant feeling of progression/power increases.. except it actually hurts that very feeling when you cap out and the only way left to get more powerful is through items. My solution would be to keep the level cap at 12, but increase the amount of experience required to hit it. Something like this;

 

Level 2: 1000

Level 3: 3000 (1000+2000)

Level 4: 7000 (3000+4000)

Level 5: 13000 (7000+6000)

Level 6: 21000

Level 7: 31000

Level 8: 43000

Level 9: 57000

Level 10: 73000

Level 11: 91000

Level 12: 111000

 

Exact same formula, except instead of increasing the count by 1000, you do it by 2000. As such you almost, but not quite, double the experience required to go from level 11 to 12. Now, this may not work, as I don't know how much experience there is to actually acquire if you run a 6 person group from as soon as possible to the end of the game. But, I would wager it is actually higher than this amount if you were to explore most, if not every nook and cranny. As such hitting the level cap would come much later in the game and the player would retain the feeling of having something to work towards power-progression wise.

 

Honestly, in addition to this I would add a stat increase every 4 levels gained to further the idea of power progression to the player (so, by hitting the level cap you could add a total of 3 points to your attributes). It wouldn't increase the power level of the players enough to be un-balanced, but increases the feeling of having gotten more powerful/rewarded by a substantial amount, as well as giving the player the feeling they can redress some perceived short-falls in their character strengths. Still, this is secondary to the primary issue at hand.

[Hatred]

 Wow. Just wow. The level cap should be 8. Not 12. Even at level 9 the content becomes sooo trivial. I have literally stopped casting spells since hitting level 9. Im tanking with itumaak and just using ranged weapons and yawning while trying to eat.

[lord_wc]

 Wow. Just wow. The level cap should be 8. Not 12. Even at level 9 the content becomes sooo trivial. I have literally stopped casting spells since hitting level 9. Im tanking with itumaak and just using ranged weapons and yawning while trying to eat.

So then your solution is not increasing difficulty but to cap characters on low level? That's a really horrible way to solve a problem.

 

You could not press that gold + sign after level 8 and bam! you already solved your problem. In the meanwhile those who love leveling up could level up to their heart's content. Or you can play on higher difficulties, PotD is not trivial (and pretty frustrating after you hit level cap at halfway and you don't get any stronger - unlike the encounters). See none of these scenarios mess up your fun. Unlike the current situation which does mess up the fun of others.

[Edvin]

 

 Wow. Just wow. The level cap should be 8. Not 12. Even at level 9 the content becomes sooo trivial. I have literally stopped casting spells since hitting level 9. Im tanking with itumaak and just using ranged weapons and yawning while trying to eat.

So then your solution is not increasing difficulty but to cap characters on low level? That's a really horrible way to solve a problem.

 

You could not press that gold + sign after level 8 and bam! you already solved your problem. In the meanwhile those who love leveling up could level up to their heart's content. Or you can play on higher difficulties, PotD is not trivial (and pretty frustrating after you hit level cap at halfway and you don't get any stronger - unlike the encounters). See none of these scenarios mess up your fun. Unlike the current situation which does mess up the fun of others.

 

Actually, his solution make sence.

Game is easy, so if we want to strengthen characters, we have to increase the difficulty or make leveling more difficult.

[lord_wc]

 

 

 Wow. Just wow. The level cap should be 8. Not 12. Even at level 9 the content becomes sooo trivial. I have literally stopped casting spells since hitting level 9. Im tanking with itumaak and just using ranged weapons and yawning while trying to eat.

So then your solution is not increasing difficulty but to cap characters on low level? That's a really horrible way to solve a problem.

 

You could not press that gold + sign after level 8 and bam! you already solved your problem. In the meanwhile those who love leveling up could level up to their heart's content. Or you can play on higher difficulties, PotD is not trivial (and pretty frustrating after you hit level cap at halfway and you don't get any stronger - unlike the encounters). See none of these scenarios mess up your fun. Unlike the current situation which does mess up the fun of others.

 

Actually, his solution make sence.

Game is easy, so if we want to strengthen characters, we have to increase the difficulty or make leveling more difficult.

 

Again, just don't press the + button ever and you can play at level 1.

I don't care about difficulty, I like leveling up. So why do you prohibit me from having fun as a 'solution'? Besides, just start one in PotD. It's not easy.

[Hatred]

 

 Wow. Just wow. The level cap should be 8. Not 12. Even at level 9 the content becomes sooo trivial. I have literally stopped casting spells since hitting level 9. Im tanking with itumaak and just using ranged weapons and yawning while trying to eat.

So then your solution is not increasing difficulty but to cap characters on low level? That's a really horrible way to solve a problem.

 

You could not press that gold + sign after level 8 and bam! you already solved your problem. In the meanwhile those who love leveling up could level up to their heart's content. Or you can play on higher difficulties, PotD is not trivial (and pretty frustrating after you hit level cap at halfway and you don't get any stronger - unlike the encounters). See none of these scenarios mess up your fun. Unlike the current situation which does mess up the fun of others.

 

 Your solution is pretty retarded. Sorry but it just is. I have reports that PotD is also suffering from the XP splurge (feel free to look at my 'bug report' about the difficulty/xp issue). In some way shape or form you should be stopped from out leveling the content to the point it becomes trivial. I don't care how they do it. People should not be punished for wanting to explore and do quests. RIght now they are. The punishment is getting too many levels. If you want to play the game on some super easy mode or cheat or do whatever I could care less. I don't see why YOU should get to ruin MY fun. Thats not reasonable.

[Hatred]

 "I like leveling up". WTF is this. Is this what Pillars of Eternity is about. Catering to Dragon Age Casuals. Why the hell even make this game. Did Obsidian make this game so that A:they wouldn't shut down or B: To give those of us who liked BG and IWD something new to play after us all waiting for so long. 

 I know who paid for the game kid. Was the diehard IE fans. So go back to Skyrim or Dragon Age or whatever retarded easymode dumbed down piece of horse **** game you came from. Even better why don't you go and buy a ****ing Xbox.

 

 Edit: sadly I probably will be reduced to capping my own level in order to actually have a game to play. Since hitting around level 7 this game has turned to ash in my mouth. I went from excitedly doing everything and reading everything to caring about nothing and feeling like I was Playing Pillars of Dragonage.

Edited April 4, 2015 by LadyCrimson
Rant away...but let's not make it too personal.

[Luckmann]

I don't agree with the OP, but the experience gains in the game definitely needs to be nerfed. People capping out at Elms is unacceptable, really. Or at the very least, the experience required for levels 5+ needs to be exponentially increased upwards. Or something.

I don't mind the cap, I could even make an argument for having it lower (although it is far too late; the game is made for level 12, and restricting it further at this point would be ridiculous) but it should be hard to hit that cap. And it's not.

The upcoming increase of experience to parties that aren't full - and let's face it, most will not have full parties until they reach Defiance Bay or Dyrford Village - makes absolutely no sense to me. I thought I was levelling way too fast as it was. Seems like to avoid it, I'll be forced to cheat in money and fill up my party in Gilded Vale.

 

And even then, I think the experience gain is at least 10-20% too fast, based on what level I am and what I'm currently doing.

 

I think that the experience needed for each level needs to be adjusted by at least 3-5%, something like an extra 5% for level 1, an extra 10% for level 2, 15% for level 3, etc. This would mean that level 12 would require 36% to 60% more xp. And considerably more than that in net total experience.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Luckmann

[Canzi]

 "I like leveling up". WTF is this. Is this what Pillars of Eternity is about. Catering to Dragon Age Casuals. Why the hell even make this game. Did Obsidian make this game so that A:they wouldn't shut down or B: To give those of us who liked BG and IWD something new to play after us all waiting for so long. 

 I know who paid for the game kid. Was the diehard IE fans. So go back to Skyrim or Dragon Age or whatever retarded easymode dumbed down piece of horse **** game you came from. Even better why don't you go and buy a ****ing Xbox.

 

 Edit: sadly I probably will be reduced to capping my own level in order to actually have a game to play. Since hitting around level 7 this game has turned to ash in my mouth. I went from excitedly doing everything and reading everything to caring about nothing and feeling like I was Playing Pillars of Dragonage.

Actually all RPG's are, among other things, mainly about character development. So yes we like to level up, create our characters and see their progress. Right now that part is excluded when you hit level 12.

[Lucinius]

 Your solution is pretty retarded. Sorry but it just is. I have reports that PotD is also suffering from the XP splurge (feel free to look at my 'bug report' about the difficulty/xp issue). In some way shape or form you should be stopped from out leveling the content to the point it becomes trivial. I don't care how they do it. People should not be punished for wanting to explore and do quests. RIght now they are. The punishment is getting too many levels. If you want to play the game on some super easy mode or cheat or do whatever I could care less. I don't see why YOU should get to ruin MY fun. Thats not reasonable.

 

The solution isn't to just reduce the level cap, however. That only exacerbates the problem of gratification. Whether you like it or not, a major reason for games to hold the appeal of the player is the feeling of becoming more powerful over time. It is a massive part of game design and creating a game that is not only "good", but "enjoyable" and a commercially successful franchise. 

 

The obvious solution, imo, is what I detailed earlier; you keep the level cap the same (12), but you reduce the rate at which you level (by increasing the amount of experience it takes to attain each level). This has two positive side effects;

 

1) You keep the player engaged through-out the game in terms of increasing power levels, instead of capping them off half-way through the game (if not earlier) as it is now. Thus, the players can continue to get the gratification of leveling up for a larger percentage of the game.

 

2) You increase difficulty for the majority of the player-base by simple virtue of your party being a lower level when they hit content. With my proposed changes to the experience curve, where you would be level 8 currently you would be 3000 experience from hitting level 7. Where you be level 12 currently you would be 7000 experience from level 10. This means you have a finer curve of power progression, meaning content later in the game is harder by default, without having to do any kind of balance changes to mob stats, density, loot tables, and so forth. Hard enough for people laughing at PotD difficulty? No, but quite honestly nothing short of a difficulty level that only 1-2% of the player base can even survive on would satisfy that group, and that, unfortunately for them, simply isn't financially feasible for Obsidian to devote resources to.

 

Simply changing the exp curve raises difficulty (across all difficulty levels), expands (massively) the ability for players to see power progression through-out the game's length and will actually make future balance and difficulty changes by Obsidian (and modders) easier, due to a finer curve allowing for more subtle changes creating a cumulative effect on difficulty.

 

As is, the fact you can cap out at 12 half-way through the game (or earlier) is, imo, one of the single largest issues facing the game right now.

[Hatred]

 Yeah I am kind of hyper aware that enjoying the combat is unusual and playing out some power fantasy where you become kind of the world is normal. This is supposed to be a niche game though. It is supposed to cater to people who liked the old IE games. Pillars of eternity is a LOT easier than the old IE games. A lot. 

 This 'only 1-2%' of the player base wants a challenge statement is not accurate. This game got kickstarted by 77k people to the tune of 4 million dollars. A lot more than 2% of those people were hoping for a challenge. Its also not like it is that big a deal either. Its not like I am asking for easy and normal to be hard. I couldn't care if all the creatures in easy got nerfed by 60% to the point where a 4 year old using a PC for the first time could finish the game with a level 2 party. I dont care how easy it gets. What I care about is that the XP goes out of control. The content doesnt scale to your level. I have been informed that you are supposed to finish the game at level 8. Considering how many people are capping upon reaching the 3rd act ( I am a hairs breadth from level 11 and I am not at twin elms yet) I think you can say that its not really working out. 

 Ive said it before I will say it again. Punishing people for exploring the game and doing the quests isn't fair. I like doing quests. I like exploring. I like challenging combat. It is what I liked about the old IE games. So yeah I am more than a little bit mad that right now the game is more like Dragon Age and less like any IE title. I hated Dragon Age.

 

Edit : I could be wrong but I think you will find twin elms is a lot closer to the end of the game than the middle. Level cap should still be the level you are intended to fight the last boss as though.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Hatred

[Lucinius]

 Yeah I am kind of hyper aware that enjoying the combat is unusual and playing out some power fantasy where you become kind of the world is normal. This is supposed to be a niche game though. It is supposed to cater to people who liked the old IE games. Pillars of eternity is a LOT easier than the old IE games. A lot. 

 This 'only 1-2%' of the player base wants a challenge statement is not accurate. This game got kickstarted by 77k people to the tune of 4 million dollars. A lot more than 2% of those people were hoping for a challenge. Its also not like it is that big a deal either. Its not like I am asking for easy and normal to be hard. I couldn't care if all the creatures in easy got nerfed by 60% to the point where a 4 year old using a PC for the first time could finish the game with a level 2 party. I dont care how easy it gets. What I care about is that the XP goes out of control. The content doesnt scale to your level. I have been informed that you are supposed to finish the game at level 8. Considering how many people are capping upon reaching the 3rd act ( I am a hairs breadth from level 11 and I am not at twin elms yet) I think you can say that its not really working out. 

 Ive said it before I will say it again. Punishing people for exploring the game and doing the quests isn't fair. I like doing quests. I like exploring. I like challenging combat. It is what I liked about the old IE games. So yeah I am more than a little bit mad that right now the game is more like Dragon Age and less like any IE title. I hated Dragon Age.

 

Edit : I could be wrong but I think you will find twin elms is a lot closer to the end of the game than the middle. Level cap should still be the level you are intended to fight the last boss as though.

 

I never said only 1-2% want a challenge. I said only about that many would enjoy/survive on a difficulty level made for those who find PotD a cakewalk. Is that low? Maybe. There are, however, people who already struggle with Normal and Hard. Also, I don't think people backed Pillars to have a challenge. They backed it because they wanted a game that harkened back to the days of BG, Torment and others. As someone who's played those games almost obsessively I can say that in my opinion.. they weren't that hard. Tedious and yet great? Sure, but hard? Only in comparison to the paint-by-numbers difficulty many modern games have. 

 

The ideal solution, imo, would be to have the experience curve moddable, so people could tailor it to their style of game play. Regardless of when people are or are not hitting cap, I think we can all agree that they are hitting the cap too quickly, even if they are not exploring every nook and cranny. A slower pace to leveling benefits everyone, as I see it. 

 

Working out increases in difficulty should come after fixing the leveling curve, or you could create further issues down the road.

[Epsilon Rose]

Personally, I think it might be interesting if you could spend extra XP on things other than levels. Maybe you could dump it into items to offset the cost of upgrading them or into an individual ability to make it more powreful. Then again, I'm finding the leveling system they implemented fairly lack luster.

[Hatred]

 

 Yeah I am kind of hyper aware that enjoying the combat is unusual and playing out some power fantasy where you become kind of the world is normal. This is supposed to be a niche game though. It is supposed to cater to people who liked the old IE games. Pillars of eternity is a LOT easier than the old IE games. A lot. 

 This 'only 1-2%' of the player base wants a challenge statement is not accurate. This game got kickstarted by 77k people to the tune of 4 million dollars. A lot more than 2% of those people were hoping for a challenge. Its also not like it is that big a deal either. Its not like I am asking for easy and normal to be hard. I couldn't care if all the creatures in easy got nerfed by 60% to the point where a 4 year old using a PC for the first time could finish the game with a level 2 party. I dont care how easy it gets. What I care about is that the XP goes out of control. The content doesnt scale to your level. I have been informed that you are supposed to finish the game at level 8. Considering how many people are capping upon reaching the 3rd act ( I am a hairs breadth from level 11 and I am not at twin elms yet) I think you can say that its not really working out. 

 Ive said it before I will say it again. Punishing people for exploring the game and doing the quests isn't fair. I like doing quests. I like exploring. I like challenging combat. It is what I liked about the old IE games. So yeah I am more than a little bit mad that right now the game is more like Dragon Age and less like any IE title. I hated Dragon Age.

 

Edit : I could be wrong but I think you will find twin elms is a lot closer to the end of the game than the middle. Level cap should still be the level you are intended to fight the last boss as though.

 

I never said only 1-2% want a challenge. I said only about that many would enjoy/survive on a difficulty level made for those who find PotD a cakewalk. Is that low? Maybe. There are, however, people who already struggle with Normal and Hard. Also, I don't think people backed Pillars to have a challenge. They backed it because they wanted a game that harkened back to the days of BG, Torment and others. As someone who's played those games almost obsessively I can say that in my opinion.. they weren't that hard. Tedious and yet great? Sure, but hard? Only in comparison to the paint-by-numbers difficulty many modern games have. 

 

The ideal solution, imo, would be to have the experience curve moddable, so people could tailor it to their style of game play. Regardless of when people are or are not hitting cap, I think we can all agree that they are hitting the cap too quickly, even if they are not exploring every nook and cranny. A slower pace to leveling benefits everyone, as I see it. 

 

Working out increases in difficulty should come after fixing the leveling curve, or you could create further issues down the road.

 

BG2 and IWD2 which are the IE games I played the most and remember most clearly were miles harder than this. I expected this game to be harder. Even PotD is broken by the XP gains (or so I have been led to believe by the people in other posts about XP/difficulty who are actually playing on PotD claimed. I wanted a game where the base game was similar to the games it is supposed to hark back to. So not extraordinarily hard. Since there is also hard difficulty though, with extra monsters for every encounter ... it should be harder if you choose that option. Since you need to be level 8 to finish the game that is where I feel the cap should be. Instead its so easy that I am tanking with a pet and playing with one hand and getting bored. 

 In regards to anyone who finds normal hard, I can only think it is for two reasons. 1 Engagement attacks. I have watched a lets player on youtube who plays Civ5 on deity (not related but it does show he is capable of thinking and learning how to play somewhat complex games) struggle like hell on normal. He is constantly getting hit by engagement mechanics. 2 No understanding of the spells, saving throws, attack resolution or .....basically any of the mechanics of the game. Aforementioned lets player is having this issue too.

 Do we want a game tuned to people who don't have any idea how to play it ? I'd prefer not. Why not just make easy stupidly easy and take engagement attacks out for easy (or maybe out all together ? currently they don't seem to add anything) and then make the rest of the game work for people who are interested in the game.

 What fun is it to think of a good build or party make up if there is nothing to test it on ? For me there is no fun only ash now. I will of course try PotD after a small break (I am currently burnt out and don't even anticipate bothering to continue playing). PotD still feels like cheese flavoured difficulty though. Stupidly large quantities of enemies should not be the answer for difficulty. I am finding even on hard with the way a lot of maps are there are more enemies than there is space for them to get at me without me trying to cheese them. Fix  the unkillable tank issue. Fix the XP issue (by capping it at 8 and letting people hit that in defiance bay for all I care). Then perhaps we would have a game that I could love again. 

 The biggest issue for difficulty still remains the XP no matter how you look at it. Overall though I am dissapointed in the combat. With the way it is now I feel like they may as well have just put in a no combat option. Right now I would take that over the borked by xp combat. 

[LucC]

 

It's like everyone in this thread is forgetting plans for a sequel and the huge amount of work needed to create games without level caps.

 

If you want any semblance of actual plot progression, you need a level cap. You cry 'muh immersion breaking' when you can't level up more, but  having the final boss being killed in 2 seconds flat is more immersion breaking. What's the danger when any old adventurer can go through the world doing random stuff, killing monsters, and leveling up forever to take down any threat in the world?

 

Second, if you want games to scale without level caps....good luck persuading any game dev to balance the game to cater to every single person who comes to fights with different xp values.

 

"Oh but you can just make stats scale!" That's not balancing, and it removes the whole point of leveling up when no matter how much you level up, a wolf is still as difficult as when you fought it six levels ago.

 

Once again... The game has a finite amount of exp so why have a level cap? It's not like games where you can grind for an infinite amount of time

 

Please stop and listen to yourself, you are acting like every single person will be playing the way you do. 

Not every Player will be sneaking and unlocking every lock, find every quest do every single little thing that gives them that 1 extra exp. A game developer whom has a plan for your character that you created and reached level 12 to be imported into their sequel can not have a character that cheese the game by Soloing and gaining the bonus exp boost that probably gets you to level 15, therefore bypassing 3 levels of awesome new spells that you will get, new stats, new attributes that they might possibly put in their sequel. And then have Players like you , posting threats on how come their new game is so easy even on Hard or Path of the damned, because I am level 15 and I cheesed my way there but its not my fault, its the developers because you allow it to happen. 

 

Having a level cap of 12 allows everyone to start at the same point once the Sequel comes out.

 

If you still don't understand, even with finite EXP available, not everyone will get all the Exp available, some people who played the game blind, at best they might only accumulate 75% of the ExP available. Then are you saying that by not exploring everything the Gamer should be punished?? Should all gamers play the game the same way, do I HAVE to explore everything , everywhere, who dictated that I have to explore everything everywhere to experience the game I bought like everyone else.  Game developers have to assume that the majority will reach 75% , for those that reaches above it, they are more prepared for the fights, they have all the tools available for future encounters compared to those that isn't, but aren't punished other than having the fights lasts longer. 

[lord_wc]

 "I like leveling up". WTF is this. Is this what Pillars of Eternity is about. Catering to Dragon Age Casuals. Why the hell even make this game. Did Obsidian make this game so that A:they wouldn't shut down or B: To give those of us who liked BG and IWD something new to play after us all waiting for so long. 

 I know who paid for the game kid. Was the diehard IE fans. So go back to Skyrim or Dragon Age or whatever retarded easymode dumbed down piece of horse **** game you came from. Even better why don't you go and buy a ****ing Xbox.

 

 Edit: sadly I probably will be reduced to capping my own level in order to actually have a game to play. Since hitting around level 7 this game has turned to ash in my mouth. I went from excitedly doing everything and reading everything to caring about nothing and feeling like I was Playing Pillars of Dragonage.

I probably have a longer history of rpg gaming than you will ever have. So quit with the tantrum I'm not your two cent friend.

[Vadász]

I must have been doing something wrong because i did not hit the cap in neither of my playthoughs. Still, there is a possibility there are many sidequests i'm not aware of.

[Canzi]

The harder difficulties are really fine? With the option that makes your character die without getting agony the game should be pretty hard. Personally I played on hard and it was difficult in the beginning even harder than IWD saga.  But after reaching 12 level I lost my vigor to continue the game. Leveling up should be slower or the level cap should be higher but the difficulty of the game is fine if you adjust it to your experience with that kind of rpg genre.

 

[Smorensky]

Guys, you are not rly being constructive here... But here let me jump onto the bandwagon.

 

Obsidian made a game the way they belived was right and no amount of ranting is going to change that. Atm I'm playing on hard (lvl 6) so far I ran into some rly easy encounters, and some that handed me my arse on a plate. For all who claim hard is too easy, yea you might be right, but then try playing on PoTD. Belive me I tried and decided I would rather finish a game on hard, so I can figure out how stuff works.

 

For example my lvl 2 party on hard, had very few issues making it's way to Madwran on hard. It was a challenge but not impossible. On PoTD the same party couldn't even clr the first grp of shadows in the cortyard... after 10 retries... +50% stat buff on mobs is huge. I'm sure

if you hand craft a party of 6 player characters it gets easier, that's why I don't do it for my 1st playtrough.

 

 

Now, on the topic of ppl "demanding" more challenging experience... POE IS A PC GAME!!! Or did you all forget that? That means that in a week from now someone is going to make A MOD, a mod that will do exactly what you want!

If you ask me Obsidian did a damn fine job in trying to please many of the backers and original IE games fans. They put in numerous settings (and they rly could have just left them out) like 4 diff settings, expert mode and path of iron. That speaks volumes in my book, as I have yet to find an unmodded game that gives you all those options...

 

There is no sense in asking Obsidian to create a custom diff setting in order to please ppl that have special requests, when A 3rd PARTY MOD can do exactly that...

 

On the topic of BG2 and IWD2 difficulty... They were not harder than PoE, at least not by much... IWD2 had hearth of fury diff and yes that was pretty damn hard untill you figure out the breakpoints in the mechanic...Then it was cakewalk. For BG2 soloing Demogorgon with almost any class is proof enough that once you figured out the system, diff plumets trough the floor... So what did I do after that in order to make my latest BG2 experience new and challenging? I downloaded the BigWorld mod offcourse, and picked the options that custom tailored that playthrough exactly as I wanted.

 

So plz, play the game, up the diff to PoTD, if even that isn't enough for you, turn on path of iron. And if you still aren't satisfied, just find a mod that works for you... Just plz... stop whining allready...