Jump to content
Lightzy

The blandness of this RPG system

Recommended Posts

 

And more relevantly, they've forgotten BG1 - an 80 hour game where you can count on 1 hand the number of magical weapons that offer anything other than a simple to-hit and damage bonus.

 

Nothing other than Modern RPG conditioning/brain washing can explain why BG1 never got bashed for its "boring" loot itemization, while we sit here and watch PoE getting raked over the coals for it.

 

Um.  I don't think you played the same BG1 the rest of us played.

 

Perhaps not. I've only played the Original, not...the Enhanced Edition.

 

Here is every weapon in BG1 that offered something more than just a to-hit and Bonus damage.

1) Dagger of Venom (+5 poison damage)

2) Long sword +2 (+1 cold damage)

3) Warhammer +2 (+1 electrical damage)

4) Crossbow of Speed (1 extra attack per round)

5) Twinkle (Drizzt's scimitar; -2 AC bonus)

6) Throwing axe +2 (returns to user when thrown)

7) Cursed Berserking Greatword +3 (its unique property is that it's friggin cursed)

 

And...that's it. Unless you include the different types of consumable weaponry (darts of stunning, darts of wounding, arrows of fire, ice, acid, piercing, wounding).

 

The Tales of the Sword coast expansion pack added the following:

 

8.) Bala's Axe (miscast magic on hit)

9) Flame Tongue/Balduran's sword/Werewolf dagger/ Hammer +1, +4 vs. giant kin (These weapons don't count because they merely do extra damage vs. creature type.)

 

And that's all. But again, people criticize PoE for having boring loot itemization even though the first 20 hours ALONE will see about four times the diversity being tossed your way. Seriously, in the first HOUR playing PoE I found a sword that increases your crits. Since then, I've found weapons with bound spells on them. I found Armor that increases your Attributes (Wish BG1 had some of those!) I found figurines that let you summon monsters.

 

 

TL;DR: PoE is a low-medium level compaign. So attempting to compare its loot itemization with BG2's is absurd. But it is fair to compare it with BG1, since BG1 is also a low level campaign. And when you do compare it, it totally holds its own.

Edited by Stun
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Everyone is used to WoW and vanity crap items and the next cool piece of gear.

And, more relevantly, they've forgotten BG1 - an 80 hour game where you can count on 1 hand the number of magical weapons that offer anything other than a simple to-hit and damage bonus.

 

Nothing other than Modern RPG conditioning/brain washing can explain why BG1 never got bashed for its "boring" loot itemization, while we sit here and watch PoE getting raked over the coals for it.

 

 

Um.  I don't think you played the same BG1 the rest of us played.  Either that (and more likely), it's a bit easy to forget what a game released last century (seriously) was really like.

 

But as I said before, while I don't necessarily agree with the OP, I do think Josh failed in his goal to make variety a viable option.  Regardless of what he may have intended with the design, padded armor still sucks.  Daggers vs stiletto is a no brainer in favor of stiletto.  And whatever cloak throws the most defensive buffs on you is the right choice regardless of class.

 

The thing I remember about BG1's items is that I generated characters with the idea of using a specific item many hours later. I also remember that I rolled a rogue for the single reason of looting a chest in the area north of Jaheira's starting location, because this chest had some quality items that I wanted to get ASAP. On top of the scarce loot this game offered, BG1 also had the iron crisis, remember? Normal weapons were constantly breaking in the middle of the fight. Haha, hilarious!

 

BG1: +1/+2 generic trash. And some truly legendary gear, named after some legendary guy who did legendary stuff. No droptables in that game, for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

 

And more relevantly, they've forgotten BG1 - an 80 hour game where you can count on 1 hand the number of magical weapons that offer anything other than a simple to-hit and damage bonus.

 

Nothing other than Modern RPG conditioning/brain washing can explain why BG1 never got bashed for its "boring" loot itemization, while we sit here and watch PoE getting raked over the coals for it.

 

Um.  I don't think you played the same BG1 the rest of us played.

 

Perhaps not. I've only played the Original, not...the Enhanced Edition.

 

Here is every weapon in BG1 that offered something more than just a to-hit and Bonus damage.

1) Dagger of Venom (+5 poison damage)

2) Long sword +2 (+1 cold damage)

3) Warhammer +2 (+1 electrical damage)

4) Crossbow of Speed (1 extra attack per round)

5) Twinkle (Drizzt's scimitar; -2 AC bonus)

6) Throwing axe +2 (returns to user when thrown)

7) Cursed Berserking Greatword +3 (its unique property is that it's friggin cursed)

 

And...that's it. Unless you include the different types of consumable weaponry (darts of stunning, darts of wounding, arrows of fire, ice, acid, piercing, wounding).

 

The Tales of the Sword coast expansion pack added the following:

 

8.) Bala's Axe (miscast magic on hit)

9) Flame Tongue/Balduran's sword/Werewolf dagger/ Hammer +1, +4 vs. giant kin (These weapons don't count because they merely do extra damage vs. creature type.)

 

And that's all. But again, people criticize PoE for having boring loot itemization even though the first 20 hours ALONE will see about four times the diversity being tossed your way. Seriously, in the first HOUR playing PoE I found a sword that increases your crits. Since then, I've found weapons with bound spells on them. I found Armor that increases your Attributes (Wish BG1 had some of those!) I found figurines that let you summon monsters.

 

 

TL;DR: PoE is a low-medium level compaign. So attempting to compare its loot itemization with BG2's is absurd. But it is fair to compare it with BG1, since BG1 is also a low level campaign. And when you do compare it, it totally holds its own.

 

Where'd you find that sword?

Edited by hypocritelecteur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love PoE's item system!

OP, what you call bland is called balance--it's just good game design. Finding something that's just better than everything else might provide some sort of psychological hit, but it doesn't provide any gameplay. Gameplay is about choices, that means the choices have to be non-obvious. That means that you can't make some choices strictly better than others. As the game goes on you do find better stuff, but they're better versions of the basic weapon types that all only differ in their tradeoffs. In this game, the best choice isn't determined by the designer who decided to make this weapon just better than the others, but by the circumstance and the strategy you're using. You select the weapon that's appropriate--that's what makes it a game--YOU make the choice based on your strategy. The game doesn't make it for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also love this system - it allows you to enchant weapons/armour specifically to deal the best damage/protect against the attacks of certain enemies.  You are not stuck hoping that you find some random piece of magical weaponry/armour with the effects that you need.  I would much rather have that then have to go look up spoilery guides on the net to find out where I can find some magical doodad of whatever that will make a hard fight easier.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Srsly folks.

 

The system has rough edges, balance issues, and occasionally questionable features, but it's fun. There's genuine build variety. All of the classes play differently and all of them are useful, and you can skew them meaningfully in a variety of directions. I've been experimenting with different party compositions and I always find myself missing the one I kicked out. I've also made some dumb decisions leveling up and am feeling the consequences. Will do better in my next playthrough.

 

You find it fun. Some people find it fun. Some people don't. There's nothing wrong with enjoying it or not enjoying it. I love Dark Souls and Dragon Age 2 and lord knows there's plenty of people who can't stand those games. If people who don't like it want to complain about it, they're allowed to do that, especially when they might have legitimate grievances.

 

I think it is fair to say, though, that Pillars of Eternity is far too harsh on new players, as it is right now. Of course, being a Kickstarted project, I guess they don't really care about newbies, since it's made with freaks like me in mind who are still playing Baldur's Gate now, a million years after it came out, so maybe that's not much of a priority.

 

 

 TL;DR: PoE is a low-medium level compaign. So attempting to compare its loot itemization with BG2's is absurd. But it is fair to compare it with BG1, since BG1 is also a low level campaign. And when you do compare it, it totally holds its own.

 

This is true, and while I may whine about Pillars of Eternity's problems I still think it's hands-down better than the original Baldur's Gate, gameplay-wise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Kotaku"

 

Stopped reading right there - I don't care about that clickbait website or the opinions of their "hired bloggers" in the least.

The article is written by Josh ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"Kotaku"

 

Stopped reading right there - I don't care about that clickbait website or the opinions of their "hired bloggers" in the least.

The article is written by Josh ...

 

Basically as soon as they see the letter combination "Kotaku" their brains switch off. Extremely amusing to see, of course. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After playing a bit more I can say with certainty that the best use of armor with this weird system is as follows:

 

All front line guys = best protection armor available, slow as snails

All back-line guys = naked for high DPS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just read first post and it got me wondering... how other rpgs were different in terms of limiting your assortment of equipment, in baldurs gate 2 if you were a sorc you couldn't use a swords, why? because you are a sorc obviously and sorcs don't use swords, like I dunno sorcs had different arms that ain't fit to hold a sword or what?

 

The idea is that if you spend time learning magic and spells, you don't have time to learn to practice sword fighting, and vice-versa - which is actually realistic (granted the existence of intelligence-based magic that you have to learn, and physical combat skills that you have to train).

 

Why should that matter?  Isn't it just a game?  Well, yeah, it's a game, but it's also supposed to be a roleplaying game, which means that things have benefits and costs, just like reality in general.  Wandering down path A precludes you wandering down path B.  Choices and consequences.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...