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Stealth mechanics, maybe better per individual?


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I really miss the option to have a rogue sit by in the shadows until the party engages a target, and then proceed to backstab someone when the opportunity presents itself. Now, once anyone breaks stealth so does everyone else, which diminishes the tactical options, in my opinion. Even if you initiate combat with a rogue from stealth, survival chances are minimal as you first have to recover from your strike in order to utilize one of your evasive abilities. Not only that but abilities that render you invisible still allow the projectiles and enemies to finish casting whatever they started when you broken out of stealth, meaning you are likely to eat a full salvo of ranged spells/arrows even if you manage to live up to the point of going invisible.

 

Thoughts?

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Stealth does need to be fixed so its individual, I find it retarded that if I want to stealth my rogue or ranger my warriors have to go stealth..

it doesn't simplify anything... it makes things un-playable.

This is one of the first things that needs to be fixed in a patch, as well as being able to separate your party members into different  locations.

for example. if I want to use my rogue to scout ahead or lay traps or go plunder an inn, I don't want to have to take my entire party into every house or separate floor that my rogue goes.

Edited by Mdalton31
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I found it strange how my Rogue ended up being dragged out of Stealth simply because I sent my Fighter into the fray first. Individual Stealth would be a plus for me. At the moment it's a very dangerous choice to have a Rogue open up against an enemy as he will draw the attention of all other foes around him. Running away is suicide as the Engagement system will shred my Rogue to pieces, so the only option is to rely on abilities that allow for a quick escape if you want to launch a Stealth attack.

 

I do like the detection system when I send my Rogue ahead to scout for enemies ;)

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The only benefit I see to the current stealth-model, is that when moving the whole party while one of the characters is sneaking in front, they don't catch up to him, or overtake him, but rather keep in formation at the same speed. In the old IE-games - if I recall corectly - you would usually let the main party stay behind, while the rogue was in front, and then keep moving the rest of the party up every few seconds, to make sure they weren't too far behind, if action were to ensue.

 

If they patch the system, it would be nice to keep the party-sneak option for this reason, or replace it with a "move in formation/keep relative distance" button.

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as well as being able to separate your party members into different  locations.

for example. if I want to use my rogue to scout ahead or lay traps or go plunder an inn, I don't want to have to take my entire party into every house or separate floor that my rogue goes.

 

They won't be able to fix that as the town, house, inn, cave or next level of a house/inn/dungeon is a different map and you can't have party members on different maps. It's why you see Loading when you enter an inn or house because it loads a new map. And when you select only one person in your party to go upstairs/downstairs in an inn, it drags your companions along as well.

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I really miss the option to have a rogue sit by in the shadows until the party engages a target, and then proceed to backstab someone when the opportunity presents itself. Now, once anyone breaks stealth so does everyone else, which diminishes the tactical options, in my opinion. Even if you initiate combat with a rogue from stealth, survival chances are minimal as you first have to recover from your strike in order to utilize one of your evasive abilities. Not only that but abilities that render you invisible still allow the projectiles and enemies to finish casting whatever they started when you broken out of stealth, meaning you are likely to eat a full salvo of ranged spells/arrows even if you manage to live up to the point of going invisible.

 

Thoughts?

Completely agree. I made rouge as main for first game, still on it and wow...he is worthless as a backstabber. You have one shot then get stomped, and the damage dosnt make the risk worth it. He is typically also the first to drop when focused on. The class as it stands needs to have a unique evade ability that increases misses or ideally as you suggest that each party member can be in or out of stealth individually. As it is...its a very poor way to handle the stealth mechanic and I am debating shelving my current game on this basis. Frankly the rouge in this game isn't a rouge.

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I agree, it's a complete no-brainer. It completely undermines what is probably the most important tactical aspect of having a rogue in the party in the first place.

 

Honestly, it's such an obvious mistake that I'm amazed it ever got through beta.

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The question is, is a feature like this feasable for a patch, or the (imminent) expansion? I really hope there isn't too much backtracking when it comes to coding for this, as I find the rogue experience really lacking because of it. 

 

Sounds like a job for Sensuki/Bester's mod tbh.  But yea I think this is a really real criticism.  

 

Granted, if a mob had a guy come out of stealth behind ME mid combat, I'd lose my ****.  Put that down for the expansion.  

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off topic... sorry! The party stealth stuff has nothing to do with anything you think it has to do with. We want to change it and our current plan is to get around to it for the patch/expansion. Any changes requires time to refactoring the system from the original design. We felt like it wasn't worth the time investment (time away from bug fixing) because it doesn't make how you play the stealth game that much different, and refactoring at this time would introduce many new bugs into the system. Does that make sense? Even if it takes a only a few days to do, that could mean 20-30+ bugs don't get fixed. 

 

-Adam

Source: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70311-new-engine/page-3?do=findComment&comment=1566279

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This statement is false.

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I don't really care either way - It would only be a cosmetic change in practice.

 

What I don't like is having to sneak around every map, searching every inch of it with a magnifying glass just to find a few arbitrary "hidden containers" that usually aren't even in places that make you go "Huh - Of course something was hiding here. I am so stupid!" when you do find them.

 

It reminds me of the days of Doom, Wolfenstein and Quake - Having to go around, pressing spacebar on every walled surface in every map to find secrets.

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off topic... sorry! The party stealth stuff has nothing to do with anything you think it has to do with. We want to change it and our current plan is to get around to it for the patch/expansion. Any changes requires time to refactoring the system from the original design. We felt like it wasn't worth the time investment (time away from bug fixing) because it doesn't make how you play the stealth game that much different, and refactoring at this time would introduce many new bugs into the system. Does that make sense? Even if it takes a only a few days to do, that could mean 20-30+ bugs don't get fixed. 

 

-Adam

Source: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70311-new-engine/page-3?do=findComment&comment=1566279

 

 

That's great to hear actually. Hopefully it's in a patch rather than having to wait for the expansion for it to get fixed. Perhaps they should, like many devs, include a beta build of the game where you can test and squish bugs prior to launching a patch on the stable version.

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Your party just has severe anxiety issues, they have to do everything together.

 

Alternatively: if they stray out of sight of the main character, they stop doing their jobs and just loaf around uselessly. I mean, the adventurers you hire are motivated only by the love of gold and the NPC companions are all out of their minds. It kind of makes sense, honestly.

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