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I'm playing hard and got wiped out twice last night on the Endless Paths of Od Nua level three boss fight. My six-character party is level 5/4 though so I'm not certain whether I'm pushing the envelope too much or simply not being tactically astute enough.

Yeah, Endless Paths doesn't feel too easy, like, at all. Although in my book hard means that you have to reload a lot; if for you it only happened twice, I would call it 'normal' at best. I mean, if you didn't have to reload a particular fight, it obviously wasn't hard. 

Also, my lvl4 Eder has base deflection 36, lol. Maybe I had some kind of an anti-stacking bug..

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Hard first playthough about 20hours in, party:

PC -> Gunling rogue (island amaua)

Eder (tank)

Aloth (****, i mean bad wizard)

Kana (ranged chanter)

Durance (healer)

 

Went trough Raedric's hold like it was my home. Game DOES feel easy when the fight goes as you want it to (meaning Eder tanks, everyone else attacks, durance heals).

Difficulty curve for me!:

Super easy

Kind of HARD when i reached gilded vale and did some quests.

Easyand getting easier after getting some levels, equipment and 5-man party (also learnt game mechanics).

 

That would be all for now.

 

Btw, game is really fun tho.

 

PS: forgot to check if Hodor Eder is stat bugged, will do this afternoon.

Edited by iampolo
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Outlevelling is definitely an issue too, in the backer beta you had a 4/5 party to do Dyrwood, here you've done basically nothing and your at lvl 6 easily.

 

In the interests of fairness I am counting my wipes on the last battle PoTD given how much I've said it's too easy. 12 wipes and counting and barely making a scratch, beginning to regret my complacency with levelling and items.

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so far i'm finding the hard difficulty a decent challenge. i guess it may be too easy if you run a party of min/max custom characters. i think hard mode is balanced for "realistic" characters (like the story NPCs).

 

also, it probably helps to play the game the way it was intended (i.e. conserve spells/ per rest abilites and try to clear maps/dungeons without excessive running back to town for extra camping supllies/free camping). it's probably much easier if you just use up all your spell slots in 1-2 fights and run back to town afterwards?

 

i had plenty of wipes in the early stages. after i finally learned how to properly use my tank characters as meatshields, it got easier. there are still encounters where i wipe and have to reload and camp to replenish spells before i can beat them. so it's definitely harder than most other games i've played on "hard" recently. to be fair, the difficulty levels in many games are just mislabeled (presumably so the players can feal great for beating "super hard" mode). i don't have that impression with PoE. hard mode actually feels hard. i like it :)

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I too find hard mode too easy... I am in act 2 and barely have any troubles in fights (no stat stacking bug here) and I fear that it will continue on like this. Is there a way to change to the potd difficulty mid game? A savegame hack or something? I played for around 20 hours or so and do not want to start over.

 

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I too find hard mode too easy... I am in act 2 and barely have any troubles in fights (no stat stacking bug here) and I fear that it will continue on like this. Is there a way to change to the potd difficulty mid game? A savegame hack or something? I played for around 20 hours or so and do not want to start over.

 

let me guess, you spam rest each combat and use all the spells?

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Yeah I'm waiting for patch to be able to finish Od Nua, and don't experiment with builds or parties at all. I see no reason to since after about first half of the game you can roflstomp everything just with you main and companions, even with companions having p. ****ty builds and stats. I just don't feel encouraged to experiment.

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you can still finish Od Nua, but it is painfully hard now and a lot of reloads for the last boss ( i like that he is hard, but the problem i have is the low amount of spells and abilities that can evne tickle him due to super sky rocket high defenses and his abilities doing 200 dmg a pop in huge AoE). If the magic missile type of spells affected the boss it would be great, but since they are all deflection they just generally suck hard and there is no tank that can surive that kind of dmg output unless you will cheese it through some summons and first do the non-hostiel dialog to kill charming adds. I like the idea that the boss is slow so yuo thoeretically can kit it, but first you need to survive the initial phase and kill all adds and then be left with something that can deal dmg

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I too find hard mode too easy... I am in act 2 and barely have any troubles in fights (no stat stacking bug here) and I fear that it will continue on like this. Is there a way to change to the potd difficulty mid game? A savegame hack or something? I played for around 20 hours or so and do not want to start over.

 

let me guess, you spam rest each combat and use all the spells?

 

 

Most classes have per encounter or resource moves that can be spammed.

 

The classes that require resting are druid/wizard/priest and you don't need their overpowered spells unless it is a boss fight or one of the few overwhelming battles.  I bring one Wizard with me incase things get out of hand, but for the most part his spells usually do not run out and I don't have to go out of my way to rest for him.

 

Hard mode is only hard for the first few hours or until you figure out to spam CC and/or use guns.

Edited by Dongom
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I'm still getting wiped out; I must be really bad at this. Are you all running custom-designed NPC parties?

 

If it's any consolation, Tinderbox, I found Hard indeed pretty hard before I picked up Eder, and I wonder if I have a stat inflation bug.

 

I'm running with a wizard PC using the story NPCs, not custom ones.  I think the real issue for me is that my L5 Eder has, I dunno, over 100 deflection I think, with his "Defender" skill enabled, in Fine Breastplate, with a +16def shield and a minor ring of deflection.  I've heard some talk about a bug making stats too strong...  I wonder if I've got that, though I'm not sure how to tell.  Anyway, he alone makes most encounters easy for me.  I just wade him into the middle of almost anything semi-level appropriate for my group, and I believe I could go AFK and if the fight was still going 10 minutes later, he'd still be around 100%, with his endurance regen making up for what tiny damage he might take.  Now the other group members feel better balanced.  The Paladin Pallegina feels about right for how I think a tank should be.  She can go up against nasty things, but not in the carefree way Eden does.  She'll get hit and take damage, which means I have to think about tactics over and above "let Eder tank everything while others plink from range."

 

Of course someone could say, "just take the shield away from Eder and don't use his abilities!", but I don't like that kind of artificial difficulty so much.

 

Now having said all that, there have been exceptions.  Like the teleporting shade guys - those encounters feel "hard" to me, because they like to teleport over and beat on the weaker wizard.  Takes good tactics and creative use of abilities.

 

Anyway Eder feels so imbalanced that I wonder if I've got the stat inflation bug, because it sounds like it isn't like that for folks like Tinderbox.  What did all your Eder chars have for deflection at L5?  I just looked: Mine is 111, with the above equipment and Defender mode.

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I'm still getting wiped out; I must be really bad at this. Are you all running custom-designed NPC parties?

 

If it's any consolation, Tinderbox, I found Hard indeed pretty hard before I picked up Eder, and I wonder if I have a stat inflation bug.

 

I'm running with a wizard PC using the story NPCs, not custom ones.  I think the real issue for me is that my L5 Eder has, I dunno, over 100 deflection I think, with his "Defender" skill enabled, in Fine Breastplate, with a +16def shield and a minor ring of deflection.  I've heard some talk about a bug making stats too strong...  I wonder if I've got that, though I'm not sure how to tell.  Anyway, he alone makes most encounters easy for me.  I just wade him into the middle of almost anything semi-level appropriate for my group, and I believe I could go AFK and if the fight was still going 10 minutes later, he'd still be around 100%, with his endurance regen making up for what tiny damage he might take.  Now the other group members feel better balanced.  The Paladin Pallegina feels about right for how I think a tank should be.  She can go up against nasty things, but not in the carefree way Eden does.  She'll get hit and take damage, which means I have to think about tactics over and above "let Eder tank everything while others plink from range."

 

Of course someone could say, "just take the shield away from Eder and don't use his abilities!", but I don't like that kind of artificial difficulty so much.

 

Now having said all that, there have been exceptions.  Like the teleporting shade guys - those encounters feel "hard" to me, because they like to teleport over and beat on the weaker wizard.  Takes good tactics and creative use of abilities.

 

Anyway Eder feels so imbalanced that I wonder if I've got the stat inflation bug, because it sounds like it isn't like that for folks like Tinderbox.  What did all your Eder chars have for deflection at L5?  I just looked: Mine is 111, with the above equipment and Defender mode.

 

 

the deflection formula for fighters is 25 + 3 per each level after first + ability bonuses + shield / gear + defender mode. over 100 at level 5 sounds like you've got statflation.

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I'm still getting wiped out; I must be really bad at this. Are you all running custom-designed NPC parties?

 

If it's any consolation, Tinderbox, I found Hard indeed pretty hard before I picked up Eder, and I wonder if I have a stat inflation bug.

 

I'm running with a wizard PC using the story NPCs, not custom ones.  I think the real issue for me is that my L5 Eder has, I dunno, over 100 deflection I think, with his "Defender" skill enabled, in Fine Breastplate, with a +16def shield and a minor ring of deflection.  I've heard some talk about a bug making stats too strong...  I wonder if I've got that, though I'm not sure how to tell.  Anyway, he alone makes most encounters easy for me.  I just wade him into the middle of almost anything semi-level appropriate for my group, and I believe I could go AFK and if the fight was still going 10 minutes later, he'd still be around 100%, with his endurance regen making up for what tiny damage he might take.  Now the other group members feel better balanced.  The Paladin Pallegina feels about right for how I think a tank should be.  She can go up against nasty things, but not in the carefree way Eden does.  She'll get hit and take damage, which means I have to think about tactics over and above "let Eder tank everything while others plink from range."

 

Of course someone could say, "just take the shield away from Eder and don't use his abilities!", but I don't like that kind of artificial difficulty so much.

 

Now having said all that, there have been exceptions.  Like the teleporting shade guys - those encounters feel "hard" to me, because they like to teleport over and beat on the weaker wizard.  Takes good tactics and creative use of abilities.

 

Anyway Eder feels so imbalanced that I wonder if I've got the stat inflation bug, because it sounds like it isn't like that for folks like Tinderbox.  What did all your Eder chars have for deflection at L5?  I just looked: Mine is 111, with the above equipment and Defender mode.

 

 

 

My L5 Eder is M 16 C 16 D 11 P 11 I 13 and R 18 for 62 Deflection with the Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil helm, the Ring of Minor Deflection and the Larder Door. I'm still using the Saint's War Armour but buffed it to Fine for a total of DR9 and gave it a +1 to Resolve too.

 

Ooops, I forgot to check if that's with Defender mode on. I think it's with it off.

 

The R 18 seems a bit high. That might be inflating but I've got at least +2 Res from stats so mebbe not. Everyone else's deflection is in the 35-45 range.

 

For context, I just barely beat the Endless Paths lvl 3 boss last night. I had Aloth kiting round hurling scetper blasts at a near-dead Zolla while everyone else had been flattened. I fought that battle three times for about 40 mins a pop trying to figure out the best strategy with loads of pausing. I'll take it.

 

Then I thought I'd visit the Searing Falls after that  -- got fried quick smart there I tell you. I don't think I'll be going back before levelling -- the sheer numbers are too overwhelming right now.

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My L5 Eder is M 16 C 16 D 11 P 11 I 13 and R 18 for 62 Deflection with the Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil helm, the Ring of Minor Deflection and the Larder Door. I'm still using the Saint's War Armour but buffed it to Fine for a total of DR9 and gave it a +1 to Resolve too.

 

Ooops, I forgot to check if that's with Defender mode on. I think it's with it off.

 

 

Wow, yeah, that's very different from me.  So even with Defender and comparable armor, you'd have low 80's whereas i have 111!  I can believe you'd have a way harder time of it than I'm having!

 

Maybe my 111 is bugged somehow.

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My L5 Eder is M 16 C 16 D 11 P 11 I 13 and R 18 for 62 Deflection with the Pilgrim's Lasting Vigil helm, the Ring of Minor Deflection and the Larder Door. I'm still using the Saint's War Armour but buffed it to Fine for a total of DR9 and gave it a +1 to Resolve too.

 

Ooops, I forgot to check if that's with Defender mode on. I think it's with it off.

 

 

 

Wow, yeah, that's very different from me.  So even with Defender and comparable armor, you'd have low 80's whereas i have 111!  I can believe you'd have a way harder time of it than I'm having!

 

Maybe my 111 is bugged somehow.

The problem is low 80s still allows him to tank anything in act one and two with no issues

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I really hope so, because I really really want to start dying. I don't see how you can be getting hit often with that deflection at lvl 3 though. with damage reduction for grazes and accuracies in the 50s vs a 80/90 deflection the maths seem in eder s favour.

 

Btw, are you sure the accuracy values in the encyclopedia are already adjusted for the +50% stat increase in PotD?

 

I'm saying this because even at a buffed 90-100 deflection my tank gets hit hard and frequently, by all kinds of trashmobs, not just by those bull**** encounters like Shadows or the lighthouse.

 

 

The problem is low 80s still allows him to tank anything in act one and two with no issues

 

 

I've made very different observations. I'm already beyond 80 unbuffed deflection on my PC and, again, the damage to the face is real. Without constant healing and strong usage of CC, my PC is going down very fast.

 

Maybe the constant recovery of Fighters changes things a little bit, but then again I don't believe it makes a huge difference, considering I barely see Eder regenerating endurance in fight at all.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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I'm beginning to believe that all developers of games like these need to add a couple of new difficulty levels.  The first would be the "What's an RPG?" level.   It would be for people like me when I first played BG2 and had no clue what I was doing or how AD&D worked or what spell did what.   Sure, I picked up on it eventually, but on normal difficulty just the first couple of levels were insanely difficult for someone who was completely lost.    The second extra difficulty level would be "One hit and you're dead."  Seriously, based on the accounts some people give of their games they somehow manage to make characters that never get hit, or hardly ever do.   They need this difficulty level to present a challenge to them. 

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I'm currently playing on PotD with a highly optimized tank as my PC and a druid as a custom-made companion.

 

Everything else are story-NPCs.

 

 

All I can say is that this mode is difficult as ****. Almost every map has a battle that can only be won with a good load of consumables, using all spells and tactical positioning/use of all resources.

 

I'm actually amazed at how balanced PotD is. I never felt like PotD is cheating in any way. All fights were perfectly winable so far with a good strategy and using the landscape to your advantage. But even then you will usually reload several times per map. Obviously, the Adra dragon is nearly unkillable in PotD, but that's how it's meant to be after all.

 

Ironman PotD? I don't see me trying this any time soon, and I call myself an IE veteran. I'd say it's almost impossible to do this without a fully customized party. With an optimized henchmen group, it will still be extremely challenging.

 

I second this. PotD feels a lot better balanced and interesting than playing on Hard:

  • Consumables are actually very useful
  • Different monsters require different tactics, I really have to pay attention to their defences and DR stats and use various debuff spells to counter it
  • Running with one/two tanks and the rest consisting only of naked/low armored ranged characters (popular strategy in beta) is very risky because the high amount of enemies ensures that everyone could and will be attacked, also CC abilities are very handy because of this
  • There is no need to min-max my own character nor to avoid the companions to be able to win most fights
  • The sense of danger is real:]
  • Gaining new levels and gear feels more rewarding
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I'm playing hard setting and i find the game too easy, i'm not even an hardcore gamer, i completed Baldur's Gate  (at time) only on normal settings. I'm at 12 hours of game.

 

Would be fine a new difficulty level between hard and pod, or buffing hard mode.

 

I don't find Hard mode to be too easy at all. In fact I find the game to be remarkably well balanced.

 

I'm playing on Hard with Trial of Iron. I am being seriously challenged and forced to play immersively, as though I were actually in Eora. I need to survive, otherwise all of my hard work gets deleted along with my only save game. I appreciate not being forced to go through the dialogue and the entire story again because of some stupid, unneccesary party wipe. On Hard with Trial of Iron, if you play intelligently you will get a serious challenge and be completely unable to quick-save-reload-quick-save-reload, or save-save-save-save-save-reload.

 

Hard mode with Trial of Iron makes the game absolutely spectacular for me. I have to decide, "Damn, I can finally afford to x & y, but z would help me survive out there... grr! Okay I'll do z instead." Hard mode with Trial of Iron forces intelligent decision making and supports roleplaying. After this phenomenal experience I'm never going to play Pillars of Eternity on anything lower than Hard mode with Trial of Iron; perhaps this is actually the perfect setting to complete the game with a Hard difficulty. I think it is.

 

Damn Pillars of Eternity is so well balanced and fun to play!! Thanks for all of your hard work people @ Obsidian!! :grin:

 

Also, what really makes me love playing on Hard mode with Trial of Iron is that I'm developing a sense of trust in the game. After 10+ hours of play I came to a point where I had a decision I could make which made me absolutely nervous to try. It was an absolutely brilliant pen-and-paper moment. I thought "Right! I have to trust Obsidian here. This is a roleplaying game. Damn... if they bungle this I might absolutely wipe right here..." It worked. It damn worked. I was given an option to roleplay which risked everything, but logically I knew that I should be able to survive it given my party composition and personal skills; I was dead scared though, as I damn well should have been given the circumstances! (Note: immediately after succeeding in this dangerous situation I bungled it by making a completely stupid decision that I never would have done in real life; just perfectly, rationally balanced) With Hard mode and Trial of Iron you get punished for not thinking. You get punished for acting in a way you wouldn't really act in that kind of a situation; you will just get punished. I don't want to lose my save game. I don't want to start all over again. If you play smart, you will survive.

 

Damn it's well balanced...

 

I think that the Obsidian team absolutely removed all of the mind-numbing crap from the original IE games and replaced them with mechanics that really enhance the gameplay experience. I used to want managing my inventory in a pain-in-the-arse-way. I grew to expect pickpocket-fail-reload-pickpocket-fail-reload. I grew to experience as fun so many things in IE games simply because the games as a whole gave me a joy unlike anything else. Pillars of Eternity removes all of the rote stuff I've come to expect of IE games and completely replaces it in a way that makes the experience fun, unhindered by crap.

 

If you play dumb your companions will die, but even though I've really come close to wiping and had most of my party lying on the ground at their last breath, no one ever died. I was never forced to have a huge, unnecessary pain in my arse that did nothing but remove fun from the game. The game is difficult in all the right ways, all the smart ways, simply removing the crap.

 

Hard mode plus Trial of Iron!! :grin:

Edited by cloudline
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I'm playing hard setting and i find the game too easy, i'm not even an hardcore gamer, i completed Baldur's Gate  (at time) only on normal settings. I'm at 12 hours of game.

 

Would be fine a new difficulty level between hard and pod, or buffing hard mode.

 

I don't find Hard mode to be too easy at all. In fact I find the game to be remarkably well balanced.

 

I'm playing on Hard with Trial of Iron. I am being seriously challenged and forced to play immersively, as though I were actually in Eora. I need to survive, otherwise all of my hard work gets deleted along with my only save game. I appreciate not being forced to go through the dialogue and the entire story again because of some stupid, unneccesary party wipe. On Hard with Trial of Iron, if you play intelligently you will get a serious challenge and be completely unable to quick-save-reload-quick-save-reload, or save-save-save-save-save-reload.

 

Hard mode with Trial of Iron makes the game absolutely spectacular for me. I have to decide, "Damn, I can finally afford to x & y, but z would help me survive out there... grr! Okay I'll do z instead." Hard mode with Trial of Iron forces intelligent decision making and supports roleplaying. After this phenomenal experience I'm never going to play Pillars of Eternity on anything lower than Hard mode with Trial of Iron; perhaps this is actually the perfect setting to complete the game with a Hard difficulty. I think it is.

 

Damn Pillars of Eternity is so well balanced and fun to play!! Thanks for all of your hard work people @ Obsidian!! :grin:

 

Also, what really makes me love playing on Hard mode with Trial of Iron is that I'm developing a sense of trust in the game. After 10+ hours of play I came to a point where I had a decision I could make which made me absolutely nervous to try. It was an absolutely brilliant pen-and-paper moment. I thought "Right! I have to trust Obsidian here. This is a roleplaying game. Damn... if they bungle this I might absolutely wipe right here..." It worked. It damn worked. I was given an option to roleplay which risked everything, but logically I knew that I would be able to survive it given my party composition and personal skills; I was dead scared though, as I damn well should have been given the circumstances! With Hard mode and Trial of Iron you get punished for not thinking. You get punished for acting in a way you wouldn't really act in that kind of a situation; you will just get punished. I don't want to lose my save game. I don't want to start all over again. If you play smart, you will survive.

 

Damn it's well balanced...

 

 

This kinda hyped me to try Iron mode on Hard on my second playthrough too. It would be probably the best experience if I played Ironmode on my 1st playthrough, but no way with all those bugs around.

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So Eder lvl 9 on my pre endgame save (possbily lvl 8 actually as I think I level shortly after the save):

 

16/16/11/10/13/12

 

Def 55/73/43/55. 

 

Equipped and with Defender def 101. He has sword and shield style and the extra +5 def talent.

 

A Caen Gwla on the final bit has 64 accuracy aka zero chance to hit Eder.

 

Xaurip champs, spiders, Pwgra all in the 50s. Some of the elder animals have high 60s/70s so they are still really struggling to hit him. Ok he has a few more levels since he fought them but it's very easy to get 80 Def very early at which point he's very difficult to hit, and that's without any of your party actually doing anything.

Edited by ComplyOrDie
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So Eder lvl 9 on my pre endgame save (possbily lvl 8 actually as I think I level shortly after the save):

 

16/16/11/10/13/12

 

Def 55/73/43/55. 

 

Equipped and with Defender def 101. He has sword and shield style and the extra +5 def talent.

 

A Caen Gwla on the final bit has 64 accuracy aka zero chance to hit Eder.

 

Xaurip champs, spiders, Pwgra all in the 50s. Some of the elder animals have high 60s/70s so they are still really struggling to hit him. Ok he has a few more levels since he fought them but it's very easy to get 80 Def very early at which point he's very difficult to hit, and that's without any of your party actually doing anything.

 

Remember that PotD adds +50% to all mob stats (and more mobs in general, so add loads of flanking bonuses to enemies). A 64 accuracy becomes 96 accuracy, making the enemy hit for normal damage on every second hit at 96 deflection. Not counting in all the nasty debuffs that reduce deflection score.

 

Again: are you sure you're playing on PotD and didn't get hit by the difficulty bug? I'm at a buffed 90 deflection already at level 4 and the amount of incoming damage on several encounters is insane.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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