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i just hit dyrford on level 8 and i feel really overpowered as well (i did a lot of sidequests but didnt do any bounties)....i am actually scared to do sidequests at this point so i can have some challenge further :( and it pi*ss me off because i love this game so far....

I feel exactly the same way :( I actually feel a little guilty when gaining side quest exp! I find that amusing :D

 

My playthrough was PoTD, expert mode, death over maiming doesn't feature too much as you tend to get knocked out first, Eder can easily do 5+ battles before his health is low.. As seems to be the case with everyone else, the game was much harder - and felt really really good by the way - near the start, with the exception of some random encounters like trolls, which can't do anything (they hit hard and fast on BG games), and the human parties which suck throughout the game (raedrics hold is decent though for lvl 3/4, except raedric who is no harder than some of the bigger groups in there). I hit defiance at 5, there is one fight in the city I missed and found on second playthrough (forge Knights) which is far far far far harder than anything else close to it. While this is cool, it shows up the rest of act 2, nothing else in Act 2 is hard for lvl 5-8 parties on path, with the exception of Spore room and potentially the lle la rhemen optional boss (I didn't do this fight but it looked decent if you don't cheese and begin the fight through dialogue). Pwgra Druid combos are tuned ok, the rest of the crit path is really really under tuned as in you don't even need to use abilities. Got to say it again, human opponents are comically easy.

 

I did one bounty quest just to try the difficulty, chief xaurip guy, looked scary but xaurips and their friends can't really hit you. Was Lvl 7 for dyrford and the places around it which is still too high probably.

 

I think on path you should be expected to do some side content to keep up, not avoid it to keep a challenge which I ended up doing, I just used the in game characters and didn't min max, I had many normal pieces of equipment still on by end game, Eder is more than good enough to tank the lot on his own and Aloth can blow most enemies up. I waltzed into the final battle with a half arsed level 9 party really a bit disappointed with it all. The last battle certainly doesn't disappoint at least, you need to bring your A game, have buffs and good equipment etc. but barely any of the rest of the game prepares you for that. I'd guess they play tested the last battle at least.

 

I admit I can't comment on any other Act 3 content as I didn't want to experience all the brilliant content for the first time when over levelled.

Since I am trying to gauge what I should and shouldn't be doing in order to keep a challenging experience for myself, this post has been very helpful. 

 

My party just became level 6 in Act2 in PotD/ToI - have only done a couple of the Act2 side quests so far. Would you suggest sticking to the main path from here on out in order to maintain a good challenge?

 

 

Well if you're doing Trial of Iron that's a tough one. Have you finished the game before? I wiped 40+ times on the last battle at level 9 and didn't get close, beyond that, I died a few times in Act 2 in Cliaban Rilag (Spores) and a few times on Burial Isle at level 8. Bet you'd have a great time in Od Nua at lvl 6.

 

 

Haven't finished the game before so I don't know what to expect. I am not doing Bounties or Tasks because it seems this is where much of the bloated exp is coming from. I was wondering if I should take it further by limiting Quests. I am hoping I can still do the standard side quests (no tasks/bounties) and still maintain a challenging experience.

 

I really wanted to do the bounties though. Challenging encounters with unique items as a reward is nice (I love reading the lore on these items!). I don't mind it too much though, because it's just more content for me on another play through whenever the exp gets tuned or modded. 

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There is a camping limitation. Everything can be abused, if you really want to, I think it's pretty clear that it was intended you don't abuse it. Stark Contrast to baldurs gate where you can pretty much rest anywhere and many classes have nothing to do if not rested.

 

I think changing the camping supply capacity depending on difficulty would actually be a really good way to up the challenge on higher difficulties.  Make it 3 on hard and 2 on PotD. 

 

 

It's already two on hard and POTD.

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Yeah I get it.  Having not played on the harder difficulties it's hard for to understand how people find them so trivial, but I guess I'll experience it myself in future playthroughs.  I do feel that Obsidian needs to be careful and not be too heavy handed in how much they increase the difficulty.  If they address bounty xp and reduce side quest xp a bit while buffing the underperforming enemies (kith, trolls, lurkers, and both varieties of animat come to mind) I think they can make great strides without turning the game into a masochistic nightmare only a small portion of players can enjoy.

 

 

Well, the game already has an Easy and a Normal mode. The issue isn't so much that Hard is trivial, but the reverse difficulty curve. My sense is that the beginning of Hard mode is quite good: it's challenging. Later it gets Easy. So the Hard mode is only Hard for the first 1/3-1/2 of the game or so.

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You won't reach level 12 before reaching the halfway point of the game's crit path unless you're doing a LOT of sidequests. You certainly won't do so if you just stick to the crit path.

so? i fail to see your point. does it mean, i have to rush through the game activly avoiding sidequest, in oder to be challenged?

 

shouldnt it be the other way around? if a specific area/fight is too hard -> turn back, get more xp through sidequests and then try again.

 

 

Nice, someone who gets it :)

 

It should be balanced so the game is challenging (more so at higher difficulty levels) after you've done most/all of the side quests.

 

If people who rush the game, only sticking to the main story, find it too challenging later on, they still have multiple choices; do some side quests or simple turn down the difficulty level! But as it stands now, for people who actually like to experience the whole game (the horror!), we're screwed - the game is far too easy even on hard level.

 

I had to use the IE Mod to hack the game to PoTD. It's now quite challenging (but it still doesn't feel like a 'nightmare level'), I'm only in act 2 though.

 

Come on Obsidian, you have an epic classic game here. You just need to fix the hard and PoTD difficulty levels so it's balanced throughout all the acts, for people who do side quests. We the community would really appreciate a post from a dev on this subject.

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It should be balanced so the game is challenging (more so at higher difficulty levels) after you've done most/all of the side quests.

 

 

 

They could really go two ways about it: 

 

A) balance the game so that side-quests are required

B) balance the game around just the main quest line, but allow you to keep playing the game after the main quest is over

 

I think they went with B, and that's a perfectly valid choice.

 

Maybe you think they didn't go far enough.  Maybe you'd prefer A.  Those are perfectly valid stances to take, and why difficulty balance should be left to modders.  Obsidian should focus on stuff modders can't change, and it would be really cool if Obsidian works with the modding community (leveraging free labor) to ensure that what people want modded can be.

Edited by Daemonjax

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Who cares about hard mode

 

Who cares about you?

 

Go to another thread if you have nothing to contribute here.

Edited by Valsuelm
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For those of you avoiding bounties.  I believe the xp is given when they're turned in, so you could do the fights (and they are pretty fun, gotta say, most fun I had in act 2) and then just not turn them in.

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For those of you avoiding bounties.  I believe the xp is given when they're turned in, so you could do the fights (and they are pretty fun, gotta say, most fun I had in act 2) and then just not turn them in.

 

Wow this is awesome... I had no idea :D 

 

Do you get the item without having to turn in the bounty?

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Hard is not too easy. Hard only stop being hard because of the weird level curve allowing your team to be much higher level than enemies if you do all side quests before the main quest line. But I must say, without dinamic levels, it's pretty impossible to cover all bases - if the game was impossible without doing side quests first (like, say, Dragon Age Inquisition), people would complain a lot too.

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Hard is not too easy. Hard only stop being hard because of the weird level curve allowing your team to be much higher level than enemies if you do all side quests before the main quest line. But I must say, without dinamic levels, it's pretty impossible to cover all bases - if the game was impossible without doing side quests first (like, say, Dragon Age Inquisition), people would complain a lot too.

 

I don't know, it may help if we had an idea of what levels the developers balanced the crit path around. For all we know, they balanced Dryford Village around level 4 parties.

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I hope Josh is looking into this. Stuff like this is arguably more detrimental to many more users than some of the bugs they are fixing, and should probably be prioritised. Can we get a confirmation that it's being looked into at least?

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It took me a while to learn how to play this game, but I see what you guys are talking about to a certain degree. I think hard difficulty is fine as it is as long as you play Trial of Iron. Trial of Iron will give you that pressure you're looking for.

 

Conclusion: Enable Trial of Iron


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Despite what I may post, I'm a huge fan of Pillars of Eternity, it's one of my favorite RPG's.

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For those of you avoiding bounties.  I believe the xp is given when they're turned in, so you could do the fights (and they are pretty fun, gotta say, most fun I had in act 2) and then just not turn them in.

 

Wow this is awesome... I had no idea :D 

 

Do you get the item without having to turn in the bounty?

 

 

Well you get whatever loot they were carrying.  I don't believe you get any items from the bounty-giver, just gold and xp.

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You guys must be pretty beast at this game because I completed every side quest I could find before Cad Nua and I kept getting owned by the ghost mobs. They randomly teleport to the DPS in my party and start wailing on them. After just a few hits, they're dead and Eder is standing around with his balls in his hand and no idea what to do.

 

I started the game on Hard and wimped out and knocked it down to Normal. After that, the game was much more manageable but also way too easy. Tabletop-derived RPGs are much more mechanics-based than they are strategic so I dunno what the deal was. My characters constantly kept missing their attacks even with buffs and targeting weaknesses. Aloth couldn't get any fire casts off on the ghost mobs cause he'd get ganged up as soon as he started casting.

 

My party is level 3-4. PC is Cipher with Eder, Aloth, Durance, and Kana.

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You guys must be pretty beast at this game because I completed every side quest I could find before Cad Nua and I kept getting owned by the ghost mobs. They randomly teleport to the DPS in my party and start wailing on them. After just a few hits, they're dead and Eder is standing around with his balls in his hand and no idea what to do.

 

I started the game on Hard and wimped out and knocked it down to Normal. After that, the game was much more manageable but also way too easy. Tabletop-derived RPGs are much more mechanics-based than they are strategic so I dunno what the deal was. My characters constantly kept missing their attacks even with buffs and targeting weaknesses. Aloth couldn't get any fire casts off on the ghost mobs cause he'd get ganged up as soon as he started casting.

 

My party is level 3-4. PC is Cipher with Eder, Aloth, Durance, and Kana.

 

The shadow fights are not the reference point for all discussions about difficulty. Shadows are a bitch and everyone hates them (or loves them for the challenge).

You're still in act 1? In that case, the problem hasn't manifested for you yet.

We are talking act 2 and act 3 mostly. Act 1 is pretty decent balancing-wise.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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You guys must be pretty beast at this game because I completed every side quest I could find before Cad Nua and I kept getting owned by the ghost mobs. They randomly teleport to the DPS in my party and start wailing on them. After just a few hits, they're dead and Eder is standing around with his balls in his hand and no idea what to do.

 

I started the game on Hard and wimped out and knocked it down to Normal. After that, the game was much more manageable but also way too easy. Tabletop-derived RPGs are much more mechanics-based than they are strategic so I dunno what the deal was. My characters constantly kept missing their attacks even with buffs and targeting weaknesses. Aloth couldn't get any fire casts off on the ghost mobs cause he'd get ganged up as soon as he started casting.

 

My party is level 3-4. PC is Cipher with Eder, Aloth, Durance, and Kana.

 

The shadow fights are not the reference point for all discussions about difficulty. Shadows are a bitch and everyone hates them (or loves them for the challenge).

You're still in act 1? In that case, the problem hasn't manifested for you yet.

We are talking act 2 and act 3 mostly. Act 1 is pretty decent balancing-wise.

 

 

Why wouldn't they be if they're practically all you fight in Act 1?

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You guys must be pretty beast at this game because I completed every side quest I could find before Cad Nua and I kept getting owned by the ghost mobs. They randomly teleport to the DPS in my party and start wailing on them. After just a few hits, they're dead and Eder is standing around with his balls in his hand and no idea what to do.

 

I started the game on Hard and wimped out and knocked it down to Normal. After that, the game was much more manageable but also way too easy. Tabletop-derived RPGs are much more mechanics-based than they are strategic so I dunno what the deal was. My characters constantly kept missing their attacks even with buffs and targeting weaknesses. Aloth couldn't get any fire casts off on the ghost mobs cause he'd get ganged up as soon as he started casting.

 

My party is level 3-4. PC is Cipher with Eder, Aloth, Durance, and Kana.

 

That's the party I usually run with at that point, and it's really good for dealing with those shadows.

 

*The Cipher should Mental Binding anything that hops on anyone that's not your frontline. Mind Blades will also ruin the shadows at that level.

*Eder's knockdown is really helpful in those fights.

*Kana has Reny Daret's Ghost and/or Bones Under The Hill to bring the odds more into your favor. Also, if you picked any of the Cipher foe beam spells, you can link with one of

 Kana's summons (placed in the enemies backline), or a Ranger's pet, and basically solo the packs by running them around like fools.

*Durance really does well with Iconic Projection, Repulsing Seal, and healing during these fights.

Edited by Elgyn

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For those of you avoiding bounties.  I believe the xp is given when they're turned in, so you could do the fights (and they are pretty fun, gotta say, most fun I had in act 2) and then just not turn them in.

 

You actually get half immediately and half when turning the heads in I believe.  There's definitely a significant amount of xp awarded just from the fights alone.

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Why wouldn't they be if they're practically all you fight in Act 1?

 

 

As I said: the game gets A LOT easier in act 2 and act 3, with only very very few encounters that stand out. Just wait for it. You'll definitely notice it once you get there.

Edited by Zwiebelchen

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I think it's worth pointing out that in RPGs not all encounters are supposed to be nail-bitingly hard. Many are designed to be power trips filler just opportunities for your party to practice and enjoy their skills and levels. Of course, if there no hard fight at all, that's a bit of a problem.

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I think it's worth pointing out that in RPGs not all encounters are supposed to be nail-bitingly hard. Many are designed to be power trips filler just opportunities for your party to practice and enjoy their skills and levels. Of course, if there no hard fight at all, that's a bit of a problem.

 

This is definitely true. Epic games should deliver a feel of overpoweredness at times. The problem comes with a completely inverted difficulty curve.

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It took me a while to learn how to play this game, but I see what you guys are talking about to a certain degree. I think hard difficulty is fine as it is as long as you play Trial of Iron. Trial of Iron will give you that pressure you're looking for.

 

Conclusion: Enable Trial of Iron

 

trial of iron does NOTHING to make the fights more challenging. 

 

it doesnt matter if u're dead or maimed DURING a fight. the only thing it does is: it forces u to reload more often. the actual fights are more or less the same difficulty. so if you are blazing through the fights in hard mode without any real resistance u will do the same on potd or trial of iron or expert mode.

 

 

 

Hard is not too easy. Hard only stop being hard because of the weird level curve allowing your team to be much higher level than enemies if you do all side quests before the main quest line. But I must say, without dinamic levels, it's pretty impossible to cover all bases - if the game was impossible without doing side quests first (like, say, Dragon Age Inquisition), people would complain a lot too.

 

 

i really cant understand your point of view.... i would complain because i would have to do ALL the CONTENT of the game?

 

sorry but if u want to rush through the game, maybe hard difficulty isnt exactly the right thing for u. 

if the game on hard ist too difficult, u can always swap back to easy/normal or backtrack a bit and get more xp. 

 

on the other-hand. if the hard mode is too easy... there is nothing else u can do other than skipping game content. 

 

 

 

i am playing on hard, have not done any bounties or quest related things in caed nua, beside reaching lvl 5 or 6  in the dungeons. i am currently at defiance bay, having for the most part, completed all side- and mainquests (which i have found) and ready to get on with the game. so thats what act 2? 

my current level is 7/8 and i am just cleaving through any mobs i find. the drakes were a bit nasty and i had to actually pause the game and issue commands and attack with spells and debuffs... but the rest is pretty dull.

 

 

i will now stop playing pillars of eternity because i see no point in it... when they fix the balancing issues i will try again. in the mean time i will try out divinity: original sin, since that game really went by me, didnt even know it exist before reading about it here in the forums. :)

 

its really a shame because the game is freaking fantastic otherwise... the quest are great, the lore is interesting and the design is really damn good (i love to spend time in the bestiary to learn all the weaknesses of the mobs etc) and i like the camping mechanics.

 

i hope they will fix this soon, either by adding a very hard mode or tweaking the xp rewards. until then have fun guys and i wish obsidian all the success in the world with this game. keep on!

Edited by RedNoak
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You guys must be pretty beast at this game because I completed every side quest I could find before Cad Nua and I kept getting owned by the ghost mobs. They randomly teleport to the DPS in my party and start wailing on them. After just a few hits, they're dead and Eder is standing around with his balls in his hand and no idea what to do.

 

I started the game on Hard and wimped out and knocked it down to Normal. After that, the game was much more manageable but also way too easy. Tabletop-derived RPGs are much more mechanics-based than they are strategic so I dunno what the deal was. My characters constantly kept missing their attacks even with buffs and targeting weaknesses. Aloth couldn't get any fire casts off on the ghost mobs cause he'd get ganged up as soon as he started casting.

 

My party is level 3-4. PC is Cipher with Eder, Aloth, Durance, and Kana.

 

That's the party I usually run with at that point, and it's really good for dealing with those shadows.

 

*The Cipher should Mental Binding anything that hops on anyone that's not your frontline. Mind Blades will also ruin the shadows at that level.

*Eder's knockdown is really helpful in those fights.

*Kana has Reny Daret's Ghost and/or Bones Under The Hill to bring the odds more into your favor. Also, if you picked any of the Cipher foe beam spells, you can link with one of

 Kana's summons (placed in the enemies backline), or a Ranger's pet, and basically solo the packs by running them around like fools.

*Durance really does well with Iconic Projection, Repulsing Seal, and healing during these fights.

 

Thanks for the tips. I'll give it another shot but I kept getting overwhelmed on Hard and getting my abilities resisted. Mental Binding barely worked most of the time.

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