Why do camp sites disappear?

[CameraLuv]

Hi, I was wondering why camp sites disappear after use? Once you set up camp, that's a camp set up, presumably. You should be able to return to it and rest some more. At least that is how camping works.

 

Otherwise, don't call it making camp and call it what it really is. A health/rest potion that can only be used outside of combat.

 

I am still only in the beginning hours of the game, but I find it dull thinking I will have to make frequent treks back to an inn, just to rest up, because camping supplies are limited. Damage happens. Resting was never a problem in the BG games. You could rest almost anywhere, while risking wandering monsters. In this game, however, the lack of such functionality is already a looming tedium.

 

Tedium |= Fun.

 

Do actual health potions exist? 

 

Aside from these niggles I'm enjoying the game a lot  

[Gorbag]

They are camping supplies, not camp sites. Stuff like food, wood and the like. Obsidian limited the number of camping supplies you can carry to avoid rest-spamming and as a substitute for resting encounters (which were tedious *and* reload-inducing). I'm sure the limit will be modded out pretty soon for those who don't like the mechanic and just want to rest away.

Yes, there are health potions in the game. In fact you can get one in the very first area of the game (the clearing near the caravan camp).

EDIT: Actually these are potions that restore endurance. I haven't seen any potions that restore health (long term damage) so far.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Gorbag

[Bazy]

Resting was never a problem in the BG games. 

Lol

[Mansen]

It's an arbitrary restriction that Obsidian thought would be cool to port from Pen and Paper to video game format - Of course they didn't take into consideration that such a restriction puts some demand on the GM to actually make the campaign flexible enough to avoid trapping the party in suicide situations all of the time.

 

I've memory hacked the restriction away so I always have 4 supplies - Makes it feel like good ole' Baldurs Gate (and Neverwinter Nights) - I wouldn't mind an official workaround or even something as simple as a mod turning supplies free and giving people a higher limit.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There is already a mod for unlimited camping supplies

[Mansen]

There is already a mod for unlimited camping supplies

 

Happen to have link handy? New to Obsidian's forums and there are a lot of subforums 

[Stereophobia]

Just think about how much you need for a single nights camping for two people. Enough wood to burn for several hours (warmth and cooking/boiling water) which at a minimum will fill a backpack. Enough water for cooking, drinking, cleaning wounds, again you're looking at several litres/gallons. Enough food for your evening and morning meal.

The tents, pots, and bedding are usually small and light, its the consumables that need replacing and bog you down.

[Ink Blot]

You can use the in-game developer console to rest anywhere without supplies, but this will disable achievements if you're on the Steam version.

[Mansen]

Just think about how much you need for a single nights camping for two people. Enough wood to burn for several hours (warmth and cooking/boiling water) which at a minimum will fill a backpack. Enough water for cooking, drinking, cleaning wounds, again you're looking at several litres/gallons. Enough food for your evening and morning meal.

The tents, pots, and bedding are usually small and light, its the consumables that need replacing and bog you down.

 

What you need is to take out your bedroll - And sleep. Anything else is a luxury and entirely dependant on the environment and your dietary needs.

[Stereophobia]

 

Just think about how much you need for a single nights camping for two people. Enough wood to burn for several hours (warmth and cooking/boiling water) which at a minimum will fill a backpack. Enough water for cooking, drinking, cleaning wounds, again you're looking at several litres/gallons. Enough food for your evening and morning meal.

The tents, pots, and bedding are usually small and light, its the consumables that need replacing and bog you down.

 

What you need is to take out your bedroll - And sleep. Anything else is a luxury and entirely dependant on the environment and your dietary needs.

 

That's true if you're just out hiking, but after getting into several battles, sustaining injuries, and not stopping to eat will leave you needing more than simply getting your head down for the night.

 

At the very least we always see a fire burning.

[Mansen]

"Party in a box" luxury spa package - Only a mere 63c a piece (at discount). Meanwhile learning spells permanently costs 100cp in comparison.

 

Still waiting around for a friendly link to that mod - definitely easier than having to memory hack.

[CameraLuv]

Still waiting around for a friendly link to that mod - definitely easier than having to memory hack.

I tried asking sensuki, who apparently made the "unlimited camping supplies" mod, where to get it. He didn't answer that, but simply said,"

You can actually just do this

 

type Iroll20s in the console

 

type rest

 

 

So unless anyone else has a link, I guess nobody wants us to find it

Are you using cheat engine? Wanna share the location for the memory hack?

[Lephys]

It's an arbitrary restriction that Obsidian thought would be cool to port from Pen and Paper to video game format - Of course they didn't take into consideration that such a restriction puts some demand on the GM to actually make the campaign flexible enough to avoid trapping the party in suicide situations all of the time.

 

Haha. "Arbitrary." Yeah, like HP limits, or finite weapon damage, or Quick Item slots, etc.

 

Why game have limits?! *puppy head-tilt*

[Sock]

 

It's an arbitrary restriction that Obsidian thought would be cool to port from Pen and Paper to video game format - Of course they didn't take into consideration that such a restriction puts some demand on the GM to actually make the campaign flexible enough to avoid trapping the party in suicide situations all of the time.

 

Haha. "Arbitrary." Yeah, like HP limits, or finite weapon damage, or Quick Item slots, etc.

 

Why game have limits?! *puppy head-tilt*

 

 

I was going to say something here too.

 

With the health/endurance mechanic, being able to rest unrestricted completely negates any and all risk of playing the game.

[TrueMenace]

Unlimited camping supplies trivializes the entire game's difficulty.

 

I bet I could do Path of the Damned, expert + trial of iron with unlimited resting. Rest every god dam fight. Easiest game ever.

 

Per rest spells essentially get buffed to per encounter.

 

What is the point of HP and fatigue?

 

Endurance is trivialized.

 

Rofl, makes me really laugh out loud at people using unlimited camping supplies.

 

If you are constantly going to town to rest, you are doing something wrong lol...

Edited March 27, 2015 by TrueMenace

[Tigranes]

Camping supplies you can carry with you are limited for balancing purposes, so that you can't just rest after every single fight (which, by the way, makes your game less interesting, since every battle is now with the same max HP and same spells).

 

Usually, if you're resting after several battles, you shouldn't really be backtracking to town more than once to get through a dungeon. 

[Mansen]

With the health/endurance mechanic, being able to rest unrestricted completely negates any and all risk of playing the game.

 

 

 

You mean like being able to walk back to the nearest inn and get a free rest? Oh I am feeling SO limited all of a sudden - On my patience that is. It is arbitrary because it's simply an anti-convenience mechanic.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Mansen

[Tigranes]

Nobody would actually run back to an inn after every battle unless they were just nuts. 

 

The point is that if you rest every battle or every other battle, then it diminishes the tactical depth of the game, it also makes the game too easy - there are real tradeoffs, it's not like a "take all" button in loot which would be purely convenience. 

 

Of course people say "let me choose, give me choice" but by that logic you'd have to make every single thing in the game optional. Ammo? Health/endurance? Engagement? Repair? At some point you have to let the developer, you know, design the game. 

[Lephys]

You mean like being able to walk back to the nearest inn and get a free rest? Oh I am feeling SO limited all of a sudden - On my patience that is. It is arbitrary because it's simply an anti-convenience mechanic.

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So what you're saying is... if you couldn't go back to town and rest whenever you wanted, AND you still had limited camping supplies, you would suddenly be fine with the game's design and not wish for unlimited camping supplies?

 

Also, I just want to clarify here, in the face of all these posts about how silly a lack of limitation is, that there's nothing wrong with enjoying playing a game with cheat codes on, etc. If you have fun having infinite health, for example... that's not wrong. But, that's wrong as part of a game's design. That's why cheat codes are called "cheat" codes. There's nothing wrong with using them, but wondering "Why isn't the regular game just as unrestricted as these cheat codes, by design?!" is a really silly thing to wonder. As if it's somehow wrong of the game to require that you perform to a certain level of effectiveness so that you don't fail.

[Mansen]

Of course people say "let me choose, give me choice" but by that logic you'd have to make every single thing in the game optional. Ammo? Health/endurance? Engagement? Repair? At some point you have to let the developer, you know, design the game. 

 

There's also a similar old saying - Don't fix what ain't broken. Unrestricted resting has worked fine for IE games for ages - And since Obsidian didn't actually restrict it properly, just make it bothersome to do, I wouldn't exactly say it's "design"

 

Heck - The very same Inn offers a random traveller free sleep, board and food (not to mention medicine) in a village that is literally starving according to its villagers.

 

But what do I care - There's a workaround to this arbitrary restriction.

[Lephys]

There's also a similar old saying - Don't fix what ain't broken. Unrestricted resting has worked fine for IE games for ages - And since Obsidian didn't actually restrict it properly, just make it bothersome to do, I wouldn't exactly say it's "design"

-----------------------------------------

 

There's also a saying I just made up, right now: "Don't assume that doing something a different way must be an attempt to 'fix' something."

 

Designing the game so that you have to manage your health over the course of several battles isn't any more wrong than designing a game so that you're always in perfect health every time you meet an adversary. It's simply two completely different ways of designing the game. In the former, how you do in each battle matters in a different way. In the latter, as long as you don't die in one battle, you're golden, and your worries reset.

 

And yes, what do you care? That's an excellent question. While you're at it, just go ahead and grab the mod that prevents you from even being able to take damage. Then you don't even have to worry about resting at all, 8D!

[Mansen]

Making a clear design decision (that I admittedly disagree fundamentally with) is one thing - Reneging on it by circumventing it is another matter. Like you asked - Would it be more okay if inns weren't a free meal ticket? Why yes - Because as long as the free options exists like that, having campfires being limited is just an arbitrary and anti-convenience feature.

 

If I wanted to, I could backtrack to an Inn every time and get a free rest and go back - ad nauseum. With how much the campfires are at the start it makes even less sense to have the system.

 

Anyway - I'm done here. Just wanted to point out the arbitary design. It's not a problem for me because of the IE Mod. Also try to avoid using strawmen in your arguments in the future - Nobody likes those.

[Lephys]

Making a clear design decision (that I admittedly disagree fundamentally with) is one thing - Reneging on it by circumventing it is another matter. Like you asked - Would it be more okay if inns weren't a free meal ticket? Why yes - Because as long as the free options exists like that, having campfires being limited is just an arbitrary and anti-convenience feature.

 

If I wanted to, I could backtrack to an Inn every time and get a free rest and go back - ad nauseum. With how much the campfires are at the start it makes even less sense to have the system.

--------------------

 

That's just silly. If you wanted to, you could go stock up on camping supplies every time you ran out. If you wanted to, you could replenish any finite items in between every battle. Does that mean scrolls and potions should have infinite uses, or just not exist, simply because it's purely a matter of convenience?

 

Or, better yet, making a new game shouldn't be an option, because you could always just make a new game and get back to that same point using fewer camping supplies. It's just really inconvenient.

 

I don't know how else to explain the difference between not having to manage something at all, and having to manage something. And you still haven't touched on any limitation at all existing in your line of reasoning. If there's a less convenient way of achieving something in the game, then we should just always make it the most convenient thing ever? If not, then why? What criterion justifies limitation?

[Mansen]

The strawmen are strong with this one...

[Lephys]

Sincere question: How have I intentionally misrepresented your argument?