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Combat Mechanics? Attack Speed, Recovery


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#21
Baki

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@Sensuki:

if i go by the logic you posted, you can actually negate the recovery time completely provided you have enough +attack speed stuff right ?

then your attack speed = the animation speed which can be modified by DEX only ?

and if the same logic can be applied to ranged weapons ...

6 chanters with ranged attack speed buff, equiped with rifles and maxed DEX ... there would be only heavily lowered animation speed + super fast reload speed ?

 

are there any recovery/animation/reload speed caps ?

do those ranged attack speed buffs stack ?

 

 

i think i was wrong about the attack speed calc. 

 

my guess is that it works like this: 

 

Let's we have modifiers of 50%(1.5) and 100% (x2) and base frames of 30. 

 

30/(1+1+0,5)=12 

 

Will try to verfify that with a high dex chanter later.

 

btw, armor malus only affects recovery time, not reload time.


Edited by Baki, 31 March 2015 - 01:58 AM.


#22
Baki

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Crossbow Speed without modifiers is

Attack: 53

Recovery: 76

Reload: 101

 

 

Now i used a buffed Chanter.

Dex: 30% Attack and Recovery and Reload Speed?

Penetrating Shot: -20% Recovery

Chant: +20% Recovery, +100% Reload Speed

Armor: -50% Recovery

 

Test Results:

Attack: 40

Recovery: 89

Reload: 41

 

Now let's see if we can calculate those values:

 

Attack: 53/(1+0,3)=40,77 -> probably correct

Recovery: 76/(1+0,2-0,2-0,5+0,3)=95 -> too far off, something is wrong here

Reload: 101/(1+1+0,3)=43,91 -> too far off, something is wrong here


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#23
ErlKing

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You sure it is not that way?

 

 

Attack: 53/1.3=40,77 
Recovery: 76/1.3*1.2/1.2*2=116 
Reload: 101/1.3/2=38

 

 

Though numbers even further from test results



#24
Baki

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ya, pretty sure thats not the case. Sensuki said it would stack additive, not multiplicative.


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#25
ErlKing

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So, heavy armor + extra low dextery + Penetrating Shot = no recover ever? or there is some cap to not get recovery time / 0



#26
Baki

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Hmm.. can you get 0? whats plate? 60%? then you could add another 20% from -5dr shots and the ranger has a talent that adds another 20% malus iirc.

 

Edit: okay i tried -50% armor, -24% dex, -20% penetrating shot, -20% Vicious Aim. It did a slow recover.

 

May its BaseFrames/(1+SpeedBonusMods)*(1+SpeedMalusMods)?

 

Test Results:

Attack: 40

Recovery: 89

Reload: 41

 

Now let's see if we can calculate those values:

 

Attack: 53/(1+0,3)=40,77 -> probably correct

Recovery: 76/(1+0,2+0,3)*/(1+0,5+0,2)=86 -> not so far off anymore

Reload: 101/(1+1)*(1+0,3)=65,65 ->nope

 

i have nbo clue how this is calculated


Edited by Baki, 31 March 2015 - 05:07 AM.


#27
Warden

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@ErlKing:

my understanding is:

first you take default animation speed, lets say some 2h melee wep. which is 30

modify it with dex bonus lets assume we have 20 dex -> 10x3% -> 30% -> 30 speed * (100% - 30%) -> 30 * 0.70 -> 21

now that we have the animation speed we multiply it by 1.2 to get the default recovery speed -> 21 * 1.2 -> 25.2

and now we apply the recovery bonuses -> 25.2 * (100% + (50% 2H - 30% dex + 50% armor)) -> 25.2 * (100% + 70%) -> 25.2 * 1.7 -> 42.84

 

in your case you are just adding % with all 3 -> (100% + (50% 2h + 50% armor + 20% penshot + 40% ??? low dex)) there is no  / 0 .... just 260% -> *2.6

on the other hand you could prolly get to recovery time * 0 or recovery time * -X

 

@Baki:

as you guessed the attack speed chant does NOT stack .... *cry*

and i had such a stylish rifleman squad named Rifleman A-F XD


Edited by Warden, 31 March 2015 - 05:13 AM.


#28
Baki

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warden, that cant be true either.

 

otherwise the x2 reload speed from chant would be +100% -> Reload eliminated?



#29
Warden

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2x faster reload means reload time/2 which is -50% not +100%



#30
Baki

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has anybody ever managed to cheat attribute scores? cant get the console command for that to work.



#31
Baki

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2x faster reload means reload time/2 which is -50% not +100%

 

And what does Rate of Fire x1.2 mean?

 

bXvPwZB.png

 

without a doubt you are right that x2 Speed doubles the reload speed / halves the reloadtime.

 

Maybe that means i was intepreting the x1.2 Rate of Fire wrong? 

 

i am confused..

 

If 100% -> 1/(1+1) -> 0,5

then 20% -> 1/(1+0,2) -> 0,83


Edited by Baki, 31 March 2015 - 07:32 AM.


#32
Warden

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i would use the same logic as with the x2

time/1.2 and you will get number which it will be after 1.2 modification

 

in case of x2 its 100%/2 -> 50% which means the modifier is -50%

in case of x1.2 its 100%/1.2 -> 83% which means the modifier is -17%



#33
Baki

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so actually the modifers were:

 

Dex: 30% Attack and Recovery and Reload Speed?

Penetrating Shot: -20% Recovery

Chant: +17% Recovery, +100% Reload Speed

Armor: -50% Recovery



#34
Warden

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so actually the modifers were:

 

Dex: 30% Attack and Recovery and Reload Speed?

Penetrating Shot: -20% Recovery

Chant: +17% Recovery, +50% Reload Speed

Armor: -50% Recovery

 

i would switch the +/- because if you want to make something faster you subtract

the in-game descriptions are strange (at least for me anyway), sometimes x2 sometimes % and with armor they write -50% like the armor is making the recovery time to be 50% faster



#35
Halloween Jack

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Hey guys, did anyone work out or explain why fast melee weapons are a certain speed but all others are equal?

 

Is it really true that an average sword takes as long as a very slow poleaxe (or whatever)?

 

Cheers



#36
HurrDurr

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Okay, i still dont get it.

 

So, let's see ( and correct me if i'm wrong):

 

Every attack in the game works like this:

attack -> recovery -> attack -> recovery -> .....

with the exception of crossbows and firearms which have added reloadtime in between like this:

attack -> recovery -> reload-> attack -> recovery -> reload -> ....

 

I've read somewhere that recoverytime is doubled while moving. Is this correct?

If it is i would assume that if you start moving after half the recoverytime elapsed (and keep moving until fully recoverd) you would have a recovery time of 1.5x recoveryframes compared to standing still?

What about reload time? Can you even start moving while reloading and if so does it work the same way, or does it cancel or pause the time?

(Sorry for the basic crossbow/firearmes questions, i never paid much attention to it and i can't check right now my self)

 

The game calculates every attack in frames per swing based on 30 frames per second.

Someone said all weapons have the same swingspeed of 30 frames except fast weapons which swing at 20 frames.

First off, is this correct, and if so, does it apply to ranged weapons too? If not, does someone know the correct numbers for each weapon speed?

 

Assuming this is correct, the diffrent weapon speeds would result from diffrent recovery times:

 

first you take default animation speed, lets say some 2h melee wep. which is 30

...

now that we have the animation speed we multiply it by 1.2 to get the default recovery speed -> 21 * 1.2 -> 25.2

 

Now, is "1.2 x animationframes" the default for twohanded weapons, or rather slow weapons (again is there a diffrence between melee and ranged slow?) and what would the multipliers for fast and average weapons be?

Also, in case of crossbows and firearmes, what are the reload times?

 

Also, dexterity is the only way to reduce the frames per swing, and since everyone assumes that recoverytime is based on swingtime it also reduces recovery (and reload?).

Everything else only ever modifies the recovery/reload time.

(Are we even certain that there arent fix recovery(and reload) times based on weaponseed?)

(More on a sidenote, i'm messing around with the time/frame thing here, just to get it right, does the game round frames , for example would 40.1 frames be 41 or 40 frames, or can it acctually calculate 40.1 frames? Well that's rather unimportant but just out of curiosity :grin: )

 

For dualwielding, there is no inherent bonus of some sort except that the swingspeed and recoverytimes of each weapon are independent of one antother? (well the first swing of the off-hand weapon starts after the mainhand-swing finshed i guess but thats it)


Edited by HurrDurr, 01 April 2015 - 07:36 AM.


#37
Baki

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yes, recovery time is doubled while moving.

 

you can find my tests for the attack speed of ranged weapons on the first page, last post. beware, im no expert and its hard to tell where an animation begins and ends. so the results will be very inaccurate.

 

recovery=1,2 x attackframes is wrong for ranged weapons. the tests seem to indicate a factor of 1.5

 

reload speed seems to be independent of attack frames but again thats just me interpreting the test results.

 

we know nothing about rounding. 

 

the inherent bonus of dual wield is the lower recovery rate compared to 1h.


Edited by Baki, 01 April 2015 - 02:06 PM.


#38
Slashe

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Ugh. the code they are using are so spagehetti right now.

 

I've found that you can practically set recovery time to 0.5 by doing the switching trick: Get the quick swap talent, excute your attack, before recovery starts and after you hit, cycle the weapons til your desired weapon.

 

What happens is that you will attack -> weapon switch recovery -> attack -> weapn switch recovery -> and so on

 

Its pretty tedious in terms of micro managing, but its great for solo-ers or characters with really high armor.

Pretty sure its a bug/exploit though

 

PS: is 0.5 recovery itme  = 30 frames?



#39
HurrDurr

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Let me apologize for the double post but somehow i can't edit my last post (or maybe i can't edit it more than once) but i did some test concerning attack rate for ranged weapons, or more specific for the war bow and huntingbow.

 

I did a recording counting the frames for each attack and recovery by pausing the game while my toon was facing away from the enemies and issuing an attack command, this made him turn to the enemy while still paused and i startet counting with the unpause frame.

(For countingpurposes and for anyone intrested, i counted 8 frames before reaching for the quiver for the huntingbow, and 10 for the warbow, which made counting consecutive attacks easier)

I did this with a few attacks for each weapon and the results where quite consistent.

 

 

huntingbow:

attack frames:27   recoveryframes:43

 

warbow:

attackframes:40    recoveryframes:62

 

my toon had 18 dex which results in a 24% increase in attackspeed and recovery time making the basevalues as follow:

 

huntingbow:

attack frames:35,53  recoveryframes:56,58

 

warbow:

attackframes:52,63   recoveryframes:81,58

 

in both cases this resultet in a recovery time ranging from ~1,55 to ~1,59 x attack speed.

 

i also tested the huntingbow with penetrationg shots for which the ingame description stats it reduces attackspeed by 20% but it acctualy increased recoverytime by 20%.

 

Also, the descriptions for weapons ingame have 3 speed values (slow, average, fast) yet for average ranged there are two diffrent attackspeeds (unless ofcourse i completely messed up here :D)  and another for melee again....

 

Hope that helps some people out there.

 

 

@ baki: Thanks for the anwsers.



#40
Cantousent

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Let me apologize for the double post but somehow i can't edit my last post (or maybe i can't edit it more than once)

It's not really limited by number of edits but rather by time. If you post once and then come back later, you'll probably not be able to edit your post. As long as you're not spamming, a double post from time to time is an age old tradition for online BBSes. :Cant's wry grin icon: Good luck and happy adventuring!




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