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I find not being able to 'drop' things quite annoying, I have to say.

 

I refuse to get annoyed at the devs though. This whole system looks really unfinished and I'm counting on them to finish it in a future patch or in the expansion.

 

You are so optimistic you make my heart melt. I wish I was.

Hah :lol: Btw you know you can drop items in the IE Mod, right?

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I actually don't want encumbrance. I know it's realistic and all that but I don't really care. It makes our lives much  easier to not have that and be able to focus to the actual game.

Dropping items though, it's not that I *need* the feature,but I dont see why not to have it

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I play the game to have fun. This is not a reality simulator. If it was I wouldn't play it.

 

Encumbrance system is anti-fun, if enough players want it, let the modders deal with it.

 

I'd prefer if Obsidian actually focused their time on developing new amazing content rather than an obscure feature a handful of people would welcome/use.

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Look, if you played D&D, and your party *didn't* have a tricked out ox cart or a team of donkeys, or your very own keel boat, you SCREWED UP.  That's all the stash is - hand waived servants.  You could hire them in the first town - it's not like anybody is doing anything there anyways, they'd be all to happy to accept a few coppers to lug all that junk around, and politely wait outside.   It also gives the DM some opportunities for side quests - because your keel boat, or your wagon will regularly be tampered with, and so you have to go lay down the boom on somebody.  No self-respecting adventuring party would be caught *dead* without oodles of pack animals and associated gear.  Sure they may have to wait at the bottom of the mountain - but even the hobbits had pack animals with them. 

That's what I thought as well. Except maybe not necessarily servants, but definitely an ox cart, and the stash is an abstraction of the fact that after clearing a dungeon you make several otherwise uneventful trips down to collect the loot and load it onto the cart.

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Do you know what is fun? Choices. You play a game because you must take choices the whole time. Except in PE where you must just click "Take it all". Not choices about what carry, not choices about if that sword you left DESERVES (yes, some of you forgot you don't have to return for everything) the tedious act of return a place you already cleaned up. That's why some of us want an encumbrance system. I don't think there was too much "inventory micromanagement" in BG, by example, just moving an armor to another character is not tedious at all. And you had those moments of "damns, I must left something... goodbye trustful sword, you served me well back then (and you could be sold very well too) but right now I need that part of the equalizer". Hard decisions, just like those you "appreciate" so much in the main story. They are part of YOUR story and YOUR unique experience in the game and in that way they are even more meaningful that other decisions you take. 

 

And yes, I'm trying to play PE this way but then I got involve in TEDIOUS tasks just to avoid take stuff and a lot of inventory micromanagement. I'm playing in hard and when I'm full items go directly to the stash and I can't reach it from the place I am, sometimes I take a couple more armors and then I must remember to move them to other characters and check all their stuff to be sure they are not too heavy. An encumbrance system would tell me the weights and will warned me if I overpass the limit. 

 

Finally I, in fact, like the stash for ingredients (something inexistent in IE games), so maybe the stash could be like the Scroll Case (for small stuff) of Baldur's Gate. 

 

You know, I've played countless CRPGs since I started in 1988, from the old Ultimas, through the birth of first-person 3D RPGs, the Fallout/IE era, to the modern rebirth of CRPGs (in all forms), and I have to say, I cannot think of any genuinely interesting situations created by encumbrance in games like Pillars of Eternity, so I call bull-poop on this, I'm afraid, Ferrante.

 

Really, the whole encumbrance issue pretty much vanishes in many CRPGs when you get a "bag of holding"-type item. Just like it does in real D&D - the game in real D&D then becomes "what utterly ridiculous things can we stuff into the Bag of Holding or Portable Hole?" - I know that with the group I DM they once managed to get a mangonel and a couple of ballistas (partially disassembled) into a Portable Hole.

 

So the very existence of items like that in D&D pretty much destroys your "interesting choices" claim when referring to past CRPGs, which you are.

 

Before you get to the point in the game where you can mindlessly shove stuff into a Bag of Holding or the like, though, there is a window where you do have to make a choice, but it is in no way whatsoever an "interesting" choice, it's simple shopkeeper math. You carry whatever is worth most by weight, and chuck away what isn't.

 

If it's a game where you can freely go back to "cleared" areas and dropped items or items in containers don't de-pop, then it's even less of a choice, because you simply carry away what is convenient, then head back for the rest.

 

The only time an actual choice that is any way difficult occurs is when the planets align and this ultra-rare scenario plays out:

 

1) You forgot to clean out your bags, and so they are full of valuable stuff.

 

2) You are in an area that you cannot go back to for some reason.

 

3) Lots of interesting-but-heavy stuff is dropping.

 

4) You do not have a Bag of Holding or similar.

 

But really, that is super-rare, and is will never, ever happen to a player who regularly empties his bags (which is a fairly tedious housekeeping activity, I note).

 

As an aside, I have seen some slightly more interesting scenarios in first-person single-character games, like Morrowind, where you can be engaged in a break-in and have to decide what to steal - but even then, nine times out of ten, you're stealing for cash money, so you simply go with the best weight-to-value items (isometric party-based games rarely offer this kind of gameplay - last time I saw it was in Ultima 6 or 7, I think).

Edited by Eurhetemec
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I really like the stash. I *really*, *really* like the stash. Inventory management was always my biggest complaint about BG.

It is a bottomless thrash can. That's about how exciting and interesting the Unlimited Stash is. More like "Unlimited Thrash".

 

EDIT: Also, I sold thrash (low-tier/bad/clone-equipment) for about 50k copper lol.

Edited by Osvir
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Well It's all about game style. I love stash (and my wife loves it even more she is get to each place in evry area and take evrything type of person).

 

I understand fans of "realism". It's so much easier in PnP when GM can sit with players and talk if they want ultra realistic campaign or something where they can forget about paying in inn's or thinking about maximum load.

 

Something immersive, like cart, mule or handfull of Patsys carring all the stuff could be Consensus (but as we know consensus worst solution for both sides of conflict).

 

If I have to choose. I will leave stash as is.

"Go where the others have gone, to the tenebrous limit

for the golden fleece of void, your ultimate prize

go upright among those who are on their knees

among those turning their backs on and those fallen to dust"

Zbigniew Herbert, Message of Mr. Cogito

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Weight without volume is not realistic.

 

It's just a waste of devs time to fill hundreds of items with weight values just to end up with total paradoxes such as a person backpack being full with 20 daggers or 3 armors... where 20 daggers can easily fit the backpack, but having anything more than one body armor in a backpack is weird and detached from reality.

 

Not to mention that running back and forth between half-finished dungeon and nearest shop to dump all of the equipment is not only tedious and miserable job, but also completely breaks any sparks of realism and immersion created by adding weight to the items.

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@Nanakamado: Or a button in the options menu that greys it out, or puts an "X" over it (Or more like, disallowing Weapons, Armor, Potions, Scrolls, to be put into the Stash, but allowing lockpicks, pets, ingredients, books, to be put in the stash).

I do the same thing as your wife, I pick up everything, partially because I can, and partially I'll be at a better advantage later on. And I also can see the abstracted immersion of having an imagined cart with you, or slaves, or even have your own caravan or whatever. And you can make it make sense in a pretend-way, but, I don't know, it disturbs the economical balance in the game (in my opinion), because you get so much more than you need. Way too easy gold.

Another solution would be to heighten the upkeep of the stronghold, make it more costly in some way (maybe more attacks the more complete it is, maybe more costs the more complete it is, and hirelings being way more expensive).

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I like encumbrance. I don't like having a bottomless magical box where every single little thing I pick up goes to. Why not just have the PCs auto pick up everything that isn't bolted down as well then? I like making difficult choices about what to pick up and what to leave behind. It seems most people here don't like it and I respect your opinions as well, but it just feels like the Stash as it is currently constructed destroys inventory management and the ingame economy. Being able to pick up and sell everything with zero repercussion creates a game world where money is essentially limitless and meaningless because wealth is so easy to create.

 

I think everyone is getting caught up on the wrong issue when discussing the Stash. It isn't the inventory management or lack thereof that is creating problems, it is the effect the Stash has on the in-game economy that is creating an issue in my opinion. I don't understand design choices like limiting the number of times the party can rest, but then creating a limitless Stash and source of money. I feel you either create a game world with very rigid - strict rules all around so the player has to make hard choices or create a world where anything goes and the game experience goes as far as the player's imagination takes them. Doing a little of both creates a game that frustrates players because some mechanics have no rules and some mechanics are very rigid.

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My last trip to sell off items I'd picked up, the tons of mundane items I tossed in the stash came to about 10% of the total value of what I sold, and the magical items would've easily fit in my standard inventory slots.  I don't find the stash's effect on the economy a problem because I don't find a ~10% boost in my money a significant problem.

 

I'm more concerned about the additional enemies added by hard when they start being equipped with magical items; that has the potential to represent a significant boost in how much money I get.

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^That's what I'm talking about. When you get 20-30 "Fine Breastplates", that doesn't make it any less thrash, and you can sell that virtually indefinately, and those items sell for some, IIRC, 140 cp. I'm not talking about blank items, like a regular Common Dagger, but rather the "Uncommons" that are blue. In bulk, you can sell those for a lot, and the amount of Rare/Epic/Legendary armors means you're pretty much never going to have to use any of the Exceptional or Superb armors you can find either.

They are pretty much just piles of cash, everything that isn't epic/legendary.

*shrug* I guess I'm just seeking~dreaming~envisioning an intricate economy system in a cRPG~ yet to be seen (just so you all know, this is not the first time I'm bringing this up :p). Uncharted Waters breeding with a cRPG, mmmhmm. That'd be wonderful :D

Stronghold+Crafting elements? Visitors asking for scrolls of some type, you have to craft it? Create trade routes with the various factions? Research? Build a military force? Expand? Exterminate? Explore? Exploit? (4X of Eternity xD) integrating crafting into the stronghold and with visitors and making it important somehow, and then create a wonderful dynamic echo-system economy :p :p (I'm not asking for it, I am demanding it!!).

Just kidding of course. It's just a dream, a vision. And there's no Unlimited Stash's in it, that's for sure. But it's an extensive and deep, complex system that would take years to develop on its own. Maybe in Pillars of Eternity #4..X!

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I like encumbrance. I don't like having a bottomless magical box where every single little thing I pick up goes to. Why not just have the PCs auto pick up everything that isn't bolted down as well then? I like making difficult choices about what to pick up and what to leave behind. It seems most people here don't like it and I respect your opinions as well, but it just feels like the Stash as it is currently constructed destroys inventory management and the ingame economy. Being able to pick up and sell everything with zero repercussion creates a game world where money is essentially limitless and meaningless because wealth is so easy to create.

 

I think everyone is getting caught up on the wrong issue when discussing the Stash. It isn't the inventory management or lack thereof that is creating problems, it is the effect the Stash has on the in-game economy that is creating an issue in my opinion. I don't understand design choices like limiting the number of times the party can rest, but then creating a limitless Stash and source of money. I feel you either create a game world with very rigid - strict rules all around so the player has to make hard choices or create a world where anything goes and the game experience goes as far as the player's imagination takes them. Doing a little of both creates a game that frustrates players because some mechanics have no rules and some mechanics are very rigid.

 

Dirk, you're wrong. The economy is designed on the assumption of an unlimited stash.

 

'nuff said.

Edited by Eurhetemec
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I like encumbrance. I don't like having a bottomless magical box where every single little thing I pick up goes to. Why not just have the PCs auto pick up everything that isn't bolted down as well then? I like making difficult choices about what to pick up and what to leave behind. It seems most people here don't like it and I respect your opinions as well, but it just feels like the Stash as it is currently constructed destroys inventory management and the ingame economy. Being able to pick up and sell everything with zero repercussion creates a game world where money is essentially limitless and meaningless because wealth is so easy to create.

 

I think everyone is getting caught up on the wrong issue when discussing the Stash. It isn't the inventory management or lack thereof that is creating problems, it is the effect the Stash has on the in-game economy that is creating an issue in my opinion. I don't understand design choices like limiting the number of times the party can rest, but then creating a limitless Stash and source of money. I feel you either create a game world with very rigid - strict rules all around so the player has to make hard choices or create a world where anything goes and the game experience goes as far as the player's imagination takes them. Doing a little of both creates a game that frustrates players because some mechanics have no rules and some mechanics are very rigid.

 

Dirk, you're wrong. The economy is designed on the assumption of an unlimited stash.

 

'nuff said.

 

Can you prove that?  I don't think the devs would design the game under the assumption that every player will pick up everything not bolted down and sell it.  That is as much of a waste of time as micro managing your inventory.

 

That being said, if you can prove it, then you are right.

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Bound by Flame, had a pretty good system with converting pretty much anything into crafting components and you could do it whenever you wanted. This way players has to prioritize and keep any quality items they think are worth holding onto, while resisting collectomania and going through those back-and-forth pedalling from one merchant to another.

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I like encumbrance. I don't like having a bottomless magical box where every single little thing I pick up goes to. Why not just have the PCs auto pick up everything that isn't bolted down as well then? I like making difficult choices about what to pick up and what to leave behind. It seems most people here don't like it and I respect your opinions as well, but it just feels like the Stash as it is currently constructed destroys inventory management and the ingame economy. Being able to pick up and sell everything with zero repercussion creates a game world where money is essentially limitless and meaningless because wealth is so easy to create.

 

I think everyone is getting caught up on the wrong issue when discussing the Stash. It isn't the inventory management or lack thereof that is creating problems, it is the effect the Stash has on the in-game economy that is creating an issue in my opinion. I don't understand design choices like limiting the number of times the party can rest, but then creating a limitless Stash and source of money. I feel you either create a game world with very rigid - strict rules all around so the player has to make hard choices or create a world where anything goes and the game experience goes as far as the player's imagination takes them. Doing a little of both creates a game that frustrates players because some mechanics have no rules and some mechanics are very rigid.

 

Dirk, you're wrong. The economy is designed on the assumption of an unlimited stash.

 

'nuff said.

 

Can you prove that?  I don't think the devs would design the game under the assumption that every player will pick up everything not bolted down and sell it.  That is as much of a waste of time as micro managing your inventory.

 

That being said, if you can prove it, then you are right.

 

 

I'll be honest - I can't prove it at this point, but it's a more valid assumption than your "They acted completely without thought!" one, I would suggest. The very low value of most items picked up commonly from enemies (normal weapons/armour) I think strongly supports my thesis - it's much, much lower than in any encumbrance-based game I can think of.

 

We should probably ask them, though. I'll try and tweet them tonight.

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Do you know what is fun? Choices. You play a game because you must take choices the whole time. Except in PE where you must just click "Take it all". Not choices about what carry, not choices about if that sword you left DESERVES (yes, some of you forgot you don't have to return for everything) the tedious act of return a place you already cleaned up. That's why some of us want an encumbrance system. I don't think there was too much "inventory micromanagement" in BG, by example, just moving an armor to another character is not tedious at all. And you had those moments of "damns, I must left something... goodbye trustful sword, you served me well back then (and you could be sold very well too) but right now I need that part of the equalizer". Hard decisions, just like those you "appreciate" so much in the main story. They are part of YOUR story and YOUR unique experience in the game and in that way they are even more meaningful that other decisions you take. 

 

And yes, I'm trying to play PE this way but then I got involve in TEDIOUS tasks just to avoid take stuff and a lot of inventory micromanagement. I'm playing in hard and when I'm full items go directly to the stash and I can't reach it from the place I am, sometimes I take a couple more armors and then I must remember to move them to other characters and check all their stuff to be sure they are not too heavy. An encumbrance system would tell me the weights and will warned me if I overpass the limit. 

 

Finally I, in fact, like the stash for ingredients (something inexistent in IE games), so maybe the stash could be like the Scroll Case (for small stuff) of Baldur's Gate. 

 

You know, I've played countless CRPGs since I started in 1988, from the old Ultimas, through the birth of first-person 3D RPGs, the Fallout/IE era, to the modern rebirth of CRPGs (in all forms), and I have to say, I cannot think of any genuinely interesting situations created by encumbrance in games like Pillars of Eternity, so I call bull-poop on this, I'm afraid, Ferrante.

 

 

Well, It just happen to me the whole time in P.E., due I'm playing without send big stuff to the stash or carrying more than 1 armor in each pack. In Raedric's Hold, It was like that situation every room. Damns, those guys had expensive armors so I had to undress my team just to carry them. It was fun for me. Realism is good sometimes if it does not hurt playability and still it can ADD some good stories.

Anyway, I don't dislike the stash too much and don't hate the new system (I was just pointing that encumbrance CAN be cool too), so, If you all dislike encumbrance, probably Obsidian took the right decision in this topic. To me, the best would be an option to activate the encumbrance but I don't think it is possible without a lot of work. Let's play the game the way it is and stop complaining!

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People are crying about having to go back frequently to get more camping resources.

If you limit the carry capacity with weight and remove the stash there will be a revolution.

 

Not to mention that if you add max carry weight, you'll probably have a harder time making weird combos like a wizard in full plate mail.

Edited by DocDoomII
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I think the fact that this, along with people complaining about not being able to walk, is a pretty good sign. The greatest problems with the game is that it's not annoying enough and you can't do things slower?!

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Are there no rules about making multiple copies of the same troll threads repeatedly ?  Stop asking for a simulation game. You have a very personal and arbitrary list of wants as to what you want simulated anyway. 

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