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So, it's done. Congrats. Here's some KS feedback FWIW

kickstarter feedback customer obsidian take it or leave it

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31 replies to this topic

#21
Ohioastro

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Traditional betas suffer from a huge problem: you encounter the full game for the first time in a buggy and unfinished state.  That's the #1 reason why I don't play betas: I want my first play through to be polished, not disappointing and broken.  The backer beta here was, to me, a brilliant alternative: you get to test the mechanics (the real point of a beta) without having the storytelling compromised.



#22
Sunjammer

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... You got to experience and be part in the backer beta WAY before previewers and streamers got a hold of this game ...

I keep seeing this as a counter-argument to the preferential treatment given to "content creators" and it might have some merit if every backer got a beta key but you have to pledge at or above the $110 level or pledge an extra $25 specifically for the key. And while I don't know about the latter, only 7,615 out of 73,986 backers (i.e. about 10.3%) pledged at or above $110 so my guess would be that the vast majority of backers were excluded from the beta and didn't get to experience the game before anyone let alone people that were given keys for no other reason than they've been playing Cities: Skylines for the last couple of weeks.


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#23
PrimeJunta

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Maybe it was my expectation to have the real game as a beta, complete with signed NDA and everything. It was not really made clear what the "backer beta" would be.


There are closed, public, and semi-public betas. This was a semi-public one. It never even occurred to me that it would be a closed one, with NDA's and stuff. I mean, who wants the hassle of dealing with and then potentially enforcing thousands of NDA's?

#24
Azmodiuz

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Dear Obsidian,

 

So here we are. 2012 seems a long time ago, doesn't it? I found out about it while playing Diablo 3 with Gftd1. He mentioned PoE in chat. I logged off and checked it out. I backed it pretty soon afterwards.

 

So, now we're on launch day here's my two pence FWIW. They say no feedback is bad feedback. Which is, of course, utter bollocks.

 

I've watched the first two parts of your video about developing PoE. Even a horrible old bastard like me was moved by your passion. OK, I was only moved a little bit, but for me that's progress. Anyhow, it was great being even a tiny part of the juggernaut that you unleashed by launching your Kickstarter. I don't regret a penny.

 

You've put two fingers up to the naysayers, gate-keepers and legacy publishers and won. Man, that must feel good. It's a buzz seeing the game at the top of the Steam listings. I've been posting here since the first week of Obsidian and at BIS forums before that. Watching the journey has been genuinely brilliant fun. I speak for many when I say this success is richly deserved. The idea that your studio might fold was horrible. Thank your deities of choice it hasn't.

 

So that's enough smoke blown up your arses. You did good. Here's what I think you didn't do so well, take it or leave it.

 

 

1. Legacy Stockholm Syndrome - I see this with legacy authors. You shake off the shackles of publishers and stumble, blinking, into the light. Hell, you're free to do what you like. But... the pull of The Old Ways is strong. So you end up with indie freedom but legacy attitudes when it comes to new ways of involving backers and taking risks. For example the launch of the game and decisions around Paradox's preview strategy (some of the streamers, guys, shouldn't have been trusted with Kandy Krush, let alone Pillars). Although I'm personally [fairly] relaxed about the release myself, I dig why some backers are asking why they were treated the same as Joe Soap who just wandered onto Steam. The answer lies in communication. You guys must be so freaking busy, I see where the cracks in the pavement must open up. But it has to be a lesson learnt. There should be no surprises around crap like this.

 

 

2. Community Management - You finally did it, and the guy is clearly up to the job. But it was too late. That position should have been filled on Day One. We can only speculate as to the hype, synergies and opportunities that might have come out of it. For long periods of development it seemed like you thought the video updates could make up for a lack of forum presence. I think this was a mistake. Forum-goers are a contrary pain in the arse, this much is true, but somewhere in that muck there might be gold. Your forum-goers are also your missionaries, prepared to travel into dark, unexplored regions of the gaming omniverse to spread light where there was previously only FPS shooters. The more engagement, the further they roam. A CM would have filled that gap and allowed devs to dev. Edit - Bioware is awesome at this. Say what you like about their games (and I do), you can't even begin to knock how their CMs mobilize the Bio-horde.

 

 

3. Set out your stall - What is a backer? (ha ha 'What is the nature of a Backer?') A customer? An investor? Some schmuck who put down a chunk of cash for a risky pre-order? I've felt like all three during the KS. This was inevitable given it's your first go at crowd-funding, but in the future maybe you need to lay down some ideas and boundaries beyond legal rubric. Some folks thought of themselves as benevolent pre-orderers and some felt they were clearly share-holders in Obz (ha ha ha). Many felt somewhere in-between. I think you need an honest statement of expectation, a compact with your backers. A guarantee. It should be completely realistic but it should also include some carrots as well as sticks.

 

 

These aren't massive gripes - the success of the enterprise speaks for itself. I'm still unhappy about some of the decisions around the game mechanics, but I'm big enough and ugly enough to suck that up and play the hell out of this game. But, as a backer and fan, if you want to finesse and build on what you've already achieved, I humbly submit my opinion for your consideration.

 

Best regards,

 

MC

 

Great Post, I would send it straight to BAlder or something lol.

But it quite obvious, the backs for PoE are a special kind, that care much more then the usual kind of backer /prepurchaser you would otherwise normally find. This game was vague, and not even close to being made when we backed, but we had been waiting for years for it. Well, we waited over a decade to have the opportunity to get our sentiments about old interplay and blackisles games out and get them coming back. I think Obsidian didn't expect to see so much attention from us, or care coming from so many.

I wish they would partially fund the Expansion the same way. I want a expansion thats large, like mask of the betrayer. ToB and ToSC for me were kind of small, and I couldn't evenb tell they were really expansions most of the time.



#25
Moirnelithe

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snip

 

Great Post, I would send it straight to BAlder or something lol.

But it quite obvious, the backs for PoE are a special kind, that care much more then the usual kind of backer /prepurchaser you would otherwise normally find. This game was vague, and not even close to being made when we backed, but we had been waiting for years for it. Well, we waited over a decade to have the opportunity to get our sentiments about old interplay and blackisles games out and get them coming back. I think Obsidian didn't expect to see so much attention from us, or care coming from so many.

I wish they would partially fund the Expansion the same way. I want a expansion thats large, like mask of the betrayer. ToB and ToSC for me were kind of small, and I couldn't evenb tell they were really expansions most of the time.

 

The expansion was partially funded that way, there was an option to add $20 to your pledge for the expansion.



#26
Maviarab

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To the OP.....agree with everything you said except point 2.

 

Seriously...you're saying Biowares Chris 'fat useless idiot' Priestly used to be a 'good' CM?  rofl..hahaha....*dies laughing*.....

 

Idiot would sooner berate your grandmother than actually be any help and do his actual job.



#27
Monte Carlo

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To the OP.....agree with everything you said except point 2.

 

Seriously...you're saying Biowares Chris 'fat useless idiot' Priestly used to be a 'good' CM?  rofl..hahaha....*dies laughing*.....

 

Idiot would sooner berate your grandmother than actually be any help and do his actual job.

 

No, I was referring to the post-Chris regime and especially the CM team around Inquisition.



#28
Monte Carlo

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OK, how do folks feel now?

 

The whole thing *feels* like a massive success... could anything have been done better? Plenty of folks disagree with me, that's cool I wanted a lively debate.



#29
santanzchild

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$298 well spent got exactly the game I wanted sans a few show stoppers but all will be fixed in a week or so. This was the first of over 100 projects I backed and it is by far my favorite!

Edited by santanzchild, 30 March 2015 - 01:10 AM.


#30
PrimeJunta

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Plenty of things could've been done better, and plenty of things could/should be fixed/adjusted in updates or expansions. I feel a long dissertation on the topic stewing in the depths of my misanthropic soul, but I won't release it until things settle down here a bit.

It's still a massive success, little warts and all. JES can design an RPG system that's rich, varied, and fun to play. Take that doubters!

#31
Monte Carlo

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JES can design an RPG system that's rich, varied, and fun to play. Take that doubters!

 

That's always going to be a matter of opinion. Like I say, it's a matter of taste. Large swathes of it aren't to mine.



#32
PrimeJunta

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Yeah 'pinions man.

Most of the things I'd like to see changed are matters of execution rather than design, e.g. the way toons often refuse to attack the target you designated but switch to something else, or run back and forth because there isn't a path to the target. Or balancing issues; the paladin seems a bit underwhelming ATM for example, and the wizard needs to be beefed up a bit to match the druid in its main mission. Little things.

Design-wise, the biggest thing I'd like them to change is stealth. It's serviceable but not really all that interesting or fun. At least make it per-character, allow re-stealthing in combat if you move out of the field of view, and, ideally, switch from circles to circle+cone so you can sneak up on people from behind. Designing stealth as a game mode was a bad idea.

I also disagree with some of the decisions made in the spell system. While it's not bad by any means -- combining things to attack weak defenses to debuff stronger ones so you can do damage is interesting enough in its way -- it could be a lot better. The wizard self-buffs are useless because of the opportunity cost in time: removing pre-buffing outright was throwing the baby out with the bath water. There should also be room for more interesting counters than just Suppress Affliction.

But I'm really digging the "core" character mechanics -- the way each class plays genuinely differently, and the way you can skew them in different directions. I also like the combat more and more as I go. I don't know if I'm in the minority, but I am enjoying dealing with the engagement mechanic -- using it to lock down enemies, observing it to see when I can move with impunity, and dealing with it when one of my squishies gets engaged.





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