Achilles Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Nope. Obsidian announced several days ago that the reviewer copies didn't have any of the day 1 patch content. Anyone who has been following the updates (rather than going off half-****ed in the forums) would know this. You are correct re: the embargo stuff. Edited March 25, 2015 by Achilles "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymelion Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word. A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments. That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies. Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently) I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare. Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date? But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atn Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 @atnVery mature. And it adds so much to the discussion... The guy has a "Gracie jiu jitsu" tag in his avatar and is throwing a fit because he doesn't have a key yet. I suggested he go roll on the mats and do some bjj (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) to get his mind off things. Don't see anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinks Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey Star Citizen is a totally different beast than POE. The comparisons can be made, but honestly Wasteland 2 was worse on backer updates and it came out as a very good game. SC is a far more ambitious project and as backer sometimes I do get worried about the scale and scope of what they are attempting! Plus they killed Wingman's hangar, still messes with me on Wednesday lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrash Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Obsidian and Larian did a good job with there first kickstarter's imo. Don't even dare to compare this kickstarter with Larian's one... Edited March 25, 2015 by LordCrash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardia Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Nope. Obsidian announced several days ago that the reviewer copies didn't have any of the day 1 patch content. Anyone who has been following the updates (rather than going off half-****ed in the forums) would know this. You are correct re: the embargo stuff. So a finished product (the one on the DVD) is not the finished product because it misses a patch? Now that is something i do not understand. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymelion Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Thats why I boosted my pledge with Star Citizen to 2 grand The crux of this entire grandstand. If Obsidian had shown 10% of CIG's attitude towards backers I would have increased my pledge here too and sung their praises everywhere as well instead of now telling people not to bother with the game - odd how that works isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCrash Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies. And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well. The copy that reviewers/streamers got was not the finished product. You'd rather have what they got than the finished product? Help me understand why? Because I like having choices. The very foundation of freedom is choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yep, you're right. Sadly, as this very thread shows, it's hard to please everyone's expectations, especially ones that nobody could have predicted before it happened. Vardia, it is now common practice to 'finish' the game with a Day 1 patch. This is because when a game goes gold (certified for DVD production), it then takes a couple of weeks to distribute - that's two weeks up to the release day that they could continue to work on bugfixes and the like. So all that work they did right up to the release day goes into the Day 1 patch, 'completing' the full release version. 3 Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lychnidos Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 ManifestedISO your progress updates really complete the insanity of this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Nope. Obsidian announced several days ago that the reviewer copies didn't have any of the day 1 patch content. Anyone who has been following the updates (rather than going off half-****ed in the forums) would know this. You are correct re: the embargo stuff. So a finished product (the one on the DVD) is not the finished product because it misses a patch? Now that is something i do not understand. Then I probably can't help you. Option 1 - Early access to a game with known bugs Option 2 - Access to a fully patched version of the game on the day you were told it would be available. The question, once again, is why would someone want option 1 over option 2? There may be a very good explanation, I just don't know what it is and need someone to explain it to me. "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinks Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 ManifestedISO your progress updates really complete the insanity of this thread. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardia Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Yep, you're right. Sadly, as this very thread shows, it's hard to please everyone's expectations, especially ones that nobody could have predicted before it happened. Vardia, it is now common practice to 'finish' the game with a Day 1 patch. This is because when a game goes gold (certified for DVD production), it then takes a couple of weeks to distribute - that's two weeks up to the release day that they could continue to work on bugfixes and the like. So all that work they did right up to the release day goes into the Day 1 patch, 'completing' the full release version. I am aware of the common practice and do not mind it, but they still get the full playable game from start to end. So there is not a huge difference to the full release version, also the patch might already be ready and uploaded as it is now wednesday already for 4 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies. And that's wrong again. There is no backlash about that. There is a backlash about Obsidian not letting the backers play the game (earlier) as well. The copy that reviewers/streamers got was not the finished product. You'd rather have what they got than the finished product? Help me understand why? Because I like having choices. The very foundation of freedom is choice. You were never promised a choice. Why do you feel entitled to something that was not offered? 3 "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightguy Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) Super Excited, just watched the The Road to Eternity - Part 2 and can't wait for the product. I'm pumped to play the game! Edited March 25, 2015 by knightguy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHelg224 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'd say that "entitled" is pretty close to being a dirty word. A quote I really like is "expectations are just premeditated resentments." And it's true. You expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave in the exact, specific manner you want them to and resent them when they don't. But it's unrealistic to expect people/businesses/kittens/whatever to behave exactly as you expect them to. So in effect, you are creating your own resentments. That's not to say you can never or should never expect anyone from anyone. But you need to be a bit pragmatic. And choose your battles. And try and look at things from different angles. Obsidian is clearly not trying to screw anyone over; they are clearly trying to make money. Obsidian has been kicked around for a decade. Do you think they are going to take the money, close up shop, and run for the hills? No! If they make this work it'll just be more Obsidian-made games for us fans in the future. Ultimately, they are doing what they are doing so they can continue to sustain a development cycle for future projects. It's kind of befuddling to see so much backlash over the very common many-decade-old practice of giving out early review copies. Not going to get into a language argument on the word entitled (it has multiple meanings and different countries/societies will use it differently) I know Obsidian is going no where - but by voicing my nonacceptance of their behavior hopefully in the future they will either learn or ignore it - if they're better people they will learn if they don't then thats their consequences to bare. Lets all be completely honest here - not one person here would have been upset in any way shape or form getting their KS editions early. Am I right? is there anyone who would have turned around and yelled at Obsidian for not holding it back and releasing it at the scheduled date? But conversely there are people who are upset at finding out their backer status wasn't important enough to Obsidian for them to put them first above media. These people are allowed to feel slighted and disrespected and are allowed to voice their feelings on the matter. If Obsidian gave a crap about their backers they'll listen if they don't they wont either way their actions get judged. Clearly you are having difficulty comprehending other viewpoints. Would I be "upset" if I got early access to the game? No. But I do honestly believe it would have been the wrong decision, and a weird one to boot, on something this high profile. This is not some crappy spaceflight game for the PS Vita, this is a spiritial successor to Baldur's Gate that will appeal to people who have never even heard of and want no part of Kickstarter. I don't think it is smart marketing to elevate Kickstarter backers over the general populace. In fact, the reality is, Kickstarter backers ceased to be a revenue stream once their pledges were collected. Now, they have to appeal to the general populace. I think that Pillars of Eternity is woefully under-advertised but other than that I think their decisions are savvy. So I'm not sure "upset" is the right word but I think a headstart release would have worked against them, and it's not one I would have necessarily appreciated, no. Again, I look at this holistically, not individually. What is best for Obsidian? What is best for Obsidian is to maximize revenue and profit. And, actually, that works for me individually too because Obsidian's success means more future Obsidian products for me as a fan of Obsidian. Also, your decision not to get into a semantics debate with me over the meaning and use of entitled is a wise one, because you will lose the argument. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardia Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Nope. Obsidian announced several days ago that the reviewer copies didn't have any of the day 1 patch content. Anyone who has been following the updates (rather than going off half-****ed in the forums) would know this. You are correct re: the embargo stuff. So a finished product (the one on the DVD) is not the finished product because it misses a patch? Now that is something i do not understand. Then I probably can't help you. Option 1 - Early access to a game with known bugs Option 2 - Access to a fully patched version of the game on the day you were told it would be available. The question, once again, is why would someone want option 1 over option 2? There may be a very good explanation, I just don't know what it is and need someone to explain it to me. I would choose version 2 all the time, but it looks polished at option 1 and that is what many see. Also reviewers will rate and review just that version for their score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydenRead Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I told Steam to start the preloading. We are going to be giving backers keys in the next few hours and if we didn't tell them to enable preloading we wouldn't have been able to enable it until tomorrow. So it has been 2 1/2 hours since this post... Any information yet on when backers are getting their keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBripa Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 DL'ed in like ten minutes, but was disappointed to see a placeholder icon instead of the pillars icon on my desktop. Does the icon have to be embargoed?! Anyway, so excite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryy Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Welp. Off to install and play the new Dragon Age DLC to pass the time for keys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymelion Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey Star Citizen is a totally different beast than POE. The comparisons can be made, but honestly Wasteland 2 was worse on backer updates and it came out as a very good game. SC is a far more ambitious project and as backer sometimes I do get worried about the scale and scope of what they are attempting! Plus they killed Wingman's hangar, still messes with me on Wednesday lol Actually no SC isn't a completely different beast - it's just Chris Roberts knew to put the fans first and he has reaped the rewards for that. Pillars of Eternity could have done that at anytime. Wasteland 2 I never backed - I did end up buying it at the recommendation of a friend though otherwise I wouldn't have. I imagine there are a lot of backers who never even knew this site was here are now looking through their emails wondering where their keys are to play the game that the media is playing. Because for a 4 million dollar kickstarter these forums sure have been vacant the last few months - compared to other kickstarters where the community only keeps growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mychal26 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The self-entitlement here is quite amazing. The game doesn't release for another day and a half, so I'm not sure how anyone thinks they should get it early just because reviewers were given early copies, which is the standard practice in the industry. If you don't get the key by the end of Thursday complain, but doing so now just makes you seem like whiny b****es. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHelg224 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey Star Citizen is a totally different beast than POE. The comparisons can be made, but honestly Wasteland 2 was worse on backer updates and it came out as a very good game. SC is a far more ambitious project and as backer sometimes I do get worried about the scale and scope of what they are attempting! Plus they killed Wingman's hangar, still messes with me on Wednesday lol Actually no SC isn't a completely different beast - it's just Chris Roberts knew to put the fans first and he has reaped the rewards for that. Pillars of Eternity could have done that at anytime. Wasteland 2 I never backed - I did end up buying it at the recommendation of a friend though otherwise I wouldn't have. I imagine there are a lot of backers who never even knew this site was here are now looking through their emails wondering where their keys are to play the game that the media is playing. Because for a 4 million dollar kickstarter these forums sure have been vacant the last few months - compared to other kickstarters where the community only keeps growing. I've kickstarted over 20 things and I don't think I've ever used the forums for any of them. Not everyone has time to go to a million forums. There are other things in my life than Pillars of Eternity and I imagine there are a lot of backers that fall into that category. Probably an overwhelming majority of them. Of course interest increases right near release. You sure do love judging everything through your own, singular experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) I would choose version 2 all the time, but it looks polished at option 1 and that is what many see. Also reviewers will rate and review just that version for their score. As would I. Unfortunately, despite how things appears (I would hate to think that it would look like a rough alpha at this stage), the version they are playing has known bugs. The reviewers were warned and were asked to keep this in mind when writing their reviews (embargoed until Thursday). Now that you and I are on the same page, perhaps LordCrash can explain why option 1 should be the clear choice. Edited March 25, 2015 by Achilles "Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies" "Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHelg224 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hey Star Citizen is a totally different beast than POE. The comparisons can be made, but honestly Wasteland 2 was worse on backer updates and it came out as a very good game. SC is a far more ambitious project and as backer sometimes I do get worried about the scale and scope of what they are attempting! Plus they killed Wingman's hangar, still messes with me on Wednesday lol inXile absolutely mismanaged many things, including communication. The game turned out good, but I got rather annoyed with inXile a few times. Obsidian did a much better job by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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