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Which Attributes for which class? And how high?


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monk with perception should be quite good with hight attack speed and high interruption chance you can basicly turn someone off from a fight

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only Perception is dump stat or Resolve too?

 

Depends what build you want to make, but for most, yes.

 

monk with perception should be quite good with hight attack speed and high interruption chance you can basicly turn someone off from a fight

 

No, you won't be able to turn someone off from a fight with Interruption. The odds of that happening are so small that it's not worth discussing.

 

That said, a monk can benefit from it if built for tanking, stacking Deflection.

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Quick question - how about dropping Perception in my main character (ranged Cipher) in favor of Resolve so I'd get more dialogue options?

I am looking at playing a ranger and from what I see in the wiki  perception increases accuracy AND range of non melee weapons.  The wiki also shows a plus and minus 1 for above and below 10.  So if you dump perception you will lose range added perception will increase range.  As a ranger I will dump INT I am single target DPS with no AOE or DOT abilities.  I will max might and walk the line with DEX and PER   I need added range and  Rate of Attack I am not sure If I benefit from max range via PER  and max DEX with dump INT  - 1 or 2 cons  and 1- or 2   resolve.  Perception also effects Deflections so If you are going negative on deflection beware. 

 

I will defer to all bata backers to confirm but that the way it read to me

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Is Might still useful for a pistol cipher? Or is it worth trading it for something like resolve for dialogue options...

It is mighty useful with high dmg weapons - it gives a +% so it scales with damage nicely (+30% out of 50 is much better than +30% out of 10).

 

Also useful for all your damaging cipher skills. Might is king for damage classes

Edited by Veevoir
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But if Might gives +3% to damage and Dexterity gives +3% to attack speed, then they both contribute equally to the DPS.

 

However, since faster attack speed leaves you with less of a problem with overkill, Dexterity is actually slightly better for damage dealing in a fight against multiple enemies.

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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Hmm, yes I see what you mean. I'm not wanting my main to be the primary damage dealer, more focusing on CC. So maybe Int > Res > Might  > Per > Dex > Con?

Not really.  More like Int = Might >(everything else).  At least as a primary damage dealer with a CC focus.  You want the high might absolutely, and Int makes the CC last longer.  Res.... does nothing for you. 

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But if Might gives +3% to damage and Dexterity gives +3% to attack speed, then they both contribute equally to the DPS.

 

However, since faster attack speed leaves you with less of a problem with overkill, Dexterity is actually slightly better for damage dealing in a fight against multiple enemies.

 

That would only be the case if they were multiplicative. But they aren't. Instead they are additive.

 

Let's just assume all your hits were normal hits = 100% dmg. Add 3% might on top, and you get your 3% damage increase.

Now assume all your attacks are crits = 150% dmg. Add 3% might on top (=153%) and you get an increase of 2%.

 

Same goes for the Speed. So It's important to have an overview about your multiplicators. If they are already high, it might make sense to focus on the other side as adding on top of it higher and higher basically comes with a diminishing returns.

 

However all your abilities have limited use per encounter/rest. And therefore they most likely profit more from might then from speed.

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Fair enough. It feels so wrong maxing Might when I don't want to RP my caster character as a beefcake, but perhaps that's just something we all will have to live with!

Ah.  The disconnect.

 

Yeah, I don't even see these stats that way.  When assigning attributes in PoE, I'm incrementing a spreadsheet for modifiers that have no effect on the world, just tweaking outputs for a character.  There is no rationale in the world that allows for pulling a trigger extra hard, or making a sword swing in a physically larger arc just by thinking at it.    The design is entirely gamist, with no worldbuilding attached to the mechanics.  At least, not the attributes.  They could be called Blue, Tuesday, April, Cats, Ponies and Friendship and still be just as meaningful as they are now.

 

Though personally, I'd call them Damage, Useless, Speed, Deflection1, Control and Deflection2, at least then they'd be related to what they do.

Edited by Voss
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I've read the first two pages of this thread and have some questions. What I seem to be taking away from this is:

- That Dex is not particularly useful, especially for those wearing heavy armour. Is such the case? When it says it increases attack speed 3%, it suggests a 3% DPS increase on account of attacking faster. (eg. 3 second attack @ 0 Dex  = 4 attacks in 12 seconds vs. 2 second attack at 11 Dex (33%) = 6 attacks in 12 seconds).

- That the benefits of Perception or Resolve are not as useful as those gained from other stats/

- That constitution is mostly beneficial for high base HP classes since it increases by %, not integer.

- That might is the go-to stat for DPS/Healing

- And that all stats will present unique dialogue options over the course of the game.

What kind of stats should I consider for a Druid PC? I would like to mix it up with shapeshift melee and some CC/Heals/AoE spells.

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But if Might gives +3% to damage and Dexterity gives +3% to attack speed, then they both contribute equally to the DPS.

 

However, since faster attack speed leaves you with less of a problem with overkill, Dexterity is actually slightly better for damage dealing in a fight against multiple enemies.

 

That would only be the case if they were multiplicative. But they aren't. Instead they are additive.

 

Multiplicative, with might: 100*1,03 damage / 10 seconds = 10,3 DPS or 100*1,5*1,03 damage / 10 seconds = 15,45 DPS

Additive, with might: 100*(1 + 0,03) damage / 10 seconds = 10,3 DPS or 100*(1 + 0,03 + 0,5) damage / 10 seconds = 15,3 DPS

 

Multiplicative, with dexterity: 100 damage / 10*(1-0.03) seconds = 10,309... DPS or 100*1,5 damage / 10*(1-0.03) seconds = 15,46... DPS

Additive, with dexterity (same as above, but...): 100 damage / 10*(1-0.03) seconds = 10,309... DPS or 100*1,5 damage / 10*(1-0.03) seconds = 15,46... DPS

 

Do you see what I mean now? I'm not sure how they calculate attack speed - if a Dexterity bonus multiplies time taken for attack by 1/1,03 which is one other possibility we get that DEX and MIG gives the same bonus to damage, like I wrote first.

 

In all of these cases, DEX is better or equally good.

 

Let's just assume all your hits were normal hits = 100% dmg. Add 3% might on top, and you get your 3% damage increase.

Now assume all your attacks are crits = 150% dmg. Add 3% might on top (=153%) and you get an increase of 2%.

 

I'm not sure you understand yourself what you are writing here. Are you just trying to say that you get relatively diminishing returns? If +3% bonus on top gives 153% damage, then than means you have added the same amount of damage as when you went from 100% to 103%. This is of course a smaller amount relative to the total damage than if you start at 150%, which means that better attack speed (that is, higher DEX) becomes more important with 150% damage since that increases damage by a fixed factor (that is, multiplicatively).

 

However all your abilities have limited use per encounter/rest. And therefore they most likely profit more from might then from speed.

 

But why are you interested in damage from just abilities? Surely what is interesting is the damage dealt from all sources?

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"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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Fair enough. It feels so wrong maxing Might when I don't want to RP my caster character as a beefcake, but perhaps that's just something we all will have to live with!

 

Might is both physical and spiritual strength. So its not just being a muscle wizard, though you can play it that way if you so desire.

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Most enemies have at least a little DR, no?  That'd push things well towards Might being better, as fewer high-impact hits would mean fewer instances of DR applying its flat reduction. 

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I've read the first two pages of this thread and have some questions. What I seem to be taking away from this is:

- That Dex is not particularly useful, especially for those wearing heavy armour. Is such the case? When it says it increases attack speed 3%, it suggests a 3% DPS increase on account of attacking faster. (eg. 3 second attack @ 0 Dex  = 4 attacks in 12 seconds vs. 2 second attack at 11 Dex (33%) = 6 attacks in 12 seconds).

- That the benefits of Perception or Resolve are not as useful as those gained from other stats/

- That constitution is mostly beneficial for high base HP classes since it increases by %, not integer.

- That might is the go-to stat for DPS/Healing

- And that all stats will present unique dialogue options over the course of the game.

What kind of stats should I consider for a Druid PC? I would like to mix it up with shapeshift melee and some CC/Heals/AoE spells.

 

Dex is complicated. Bizarrely complicated, because most actions have an attached recovery timer as well (and a lot of ranged weapons have another reload timer as well), and speed is done by animation frames, not actual seconds.  So the 3% isn't a flat 3%.

 

Per/Res- if you throw yourself in front of attacks, the deflection bonus matters.  Otherwise, not so much, and the interrupt mechanics are wonky.

 

Con- yes. 

Might- yes

 

Dialogue- yes, but and conditional.  You also have disposition choices (which have a more lasting impact), and word of dev is the attribute dialogue choices aren't necessarily better (or even positive), and sometimes just paying attention benefits you more.

 

Druid- Might and Int.   Might benefits you regardless of shapeshift melee or spells (or damage/healing). Druids have a lot of AoE (which benefits from Int) and some CC, summons or debuffs (which also benefit from int).  Dex might help you some, but...really, most of what you are doing will involve blowing people the hell up or making their day miserable for as long as possible.

Edited by Voss
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I am also interested in your thoughts about what attributes are good for Chanters in particular. I assume that INT is most important attribute to increase the duration of chants. And obviously Might would improve any damaging Invocations. But what about any less obvious benefits?

Most particularly:

1.      Will Might increase the chant healing effect?

2.      Will any attributes improve our summons?

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Most enemies have at least a little DR, no?  That'd push things well towards Might being better, as fewer high-impact hits would mean fewer instances of DR applying its flat reduction. 

 

Correct, this is in favour of MIG. Then it makes sense that DEX is a just a wee bit better if we do not count DR in.

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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@Kingsgambit: Coming to this later if it wasnt answered till then already

 

@Rostere:

 

I will try to explain both things at once by giving a very extreme and unrealistic example.

 

Lets say you have a class who by a passive ability has a 900% damage bonus, so it has a total of 1000% damage. Your weapon does 10 points of damage. After the modifier its 1,000 points of damage.

 

Now if you add 15% by having 15 might on top of that you end up at 1015% => 1015 dmg. And not 1150% (which would have been multiplicative).

 

Now lets assume that the speed of the class is 100%. And this class has no way to increase it by any buffs but only by dexterity.

So if you have 15 dexterity, so that 15% of speed are added, you end up with 115%. Now as the base is 100% you more or less actually increase your DPS by 15%. So you increase your 1000 dmg you end up with 1150 dmg.

 

Of course the differences in the "real world" are rather slim. But there is indeed a difference. :)

Edited by Kordanor
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