Jump to content

Best attributes spread for a rogue?


Recommended Posts

 

 

 

@gromnir why do you Speak in 3rd person and sign off with 'ha good fun!' ? Personally, I think you are awesome.

I think he's roleplaying character called Gromnir from BG2: ToB.

 

It's the other way around. As crazy as it sounds.

 

 

I actually remember Gromnir from the old official Baldur's Gate boards from way, way, way, way back, before BG2 was even released, as far as I can remember, although he certainly does not remember me. This makes me feel crazy old.

 

 

That's interesting. Are there any other forumites from the olden days who got their own character in BG?

 

 

Mencar Pebblecrusher - IIRC this was the result of some sort of contest

Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lanfear from BG2, I believe.  Also, several in TOB; Chinchilla, Draconis, Merlinious (SP?) Yakman, and a few others.   It led to much strife on the old Bio Boards

there were actual a fair number in bg. mencar were not a contest winner, and there were a handful o' similar inclusions in the game, such as the vampire named del.   the scimitar throwing fellow at the docks, and the githyanki wild mage in waukeen's promenade were the contest winners.  diesel, the guy who submitted the wild mage, were insulted so frequent following the announcement that his character would be in bg2 that he either changed handles or simple left the boards.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

@gromnir why do you Speak in 3rd person and sign off with 'ha good fun!' ? Personally, I think you are awesome.

I think he's roleplaying character called Gromnir from BG2: ToB.

 

 

LOL

 

The irony.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Lanfear from BG2, I believe.  Also, several in TOB; Chinchilla, Draconis, Merlinious (SP?) Yakman, and a few others.   It led to much strife on the old Bio Boards

there were actual a fair number in bg. mencar were not a contest winner, and there were a handful o' similar inclusions in the game, such as the vampire named del.   the scimitar throwing fellow at the docks, and the githyanki wild mage in waukeen's promenade were the contest winners.  diesel, the guy who submitted the wild mage, were insulted so frequent following the announcement that his character would be in bg2 that he either changed handles or simple left the boards.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Yeah no good deed goes unpunished. I could not believe the rage and fury at the contest winners. Totally bizarre. Pity I really enjoyed Lanfear's bizarre Coran obsession.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back on topic: what 'soft skill' stats would you recommend for your MC? Perception and intelligence I guess?

wisdom and intelligence were always important in bis/obsidian d&d games where attribute checks were important.  charisma were also important, but is tough to see a poe charisma replacement. ps:t is likely the prime example o' a game developed by bis/obsidian that focused on wisdom, but even in kotor 2, the developers gave more weight to wisdom than the other attributes.  however, there is no specific wisdom attribute in poe.  that being said, both perception and resolve jointly fill the role o' d&d wisdom.  every initial main character build we consider is attempting to maximize perception, intelligence and resolve.  

 

resolve, save for a few tank builds, appears to be a serious dump stat contender.  its near uselessness from a mechanics perspective actually makes us more convinced that resolve will be important insofar as role-play and dialogue encounters is concerned.

 

unless we have missed some kinda secret trick regarding skills advancement, based on the beta, we is gonna need chose a single skill to excel at.  sure, you could throw a few points into a second skill, but ultimately, you are gonna need to focus.  if we gotta choose one skill to make an impact on quest resolutions and dialogues, it is probably gonna be lore, but that is just a guess based on games such as nwn2 and motb.  we got no diplomacy skills in poe (attributes will be more vital in poe) but lore, unlike the other skills has almost 0 use outside o' dialogues.  again, the relative mechanical uselessness o' lore is part o' what makes us believe that the developers will balance that obvious seeming lack o' return on investment. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

resolve, save for a few tank builds, appears to be a serious dump stat contender.  its near uselessness from a mechanics perspective actually makes us more convinced that resolve will be important insofar as role-play and dialogue encounters is concerned.

At least in one place in beta resolve is used to make a convincing lie. It is also described as "mental intimidation", so I'd guess it is quite important for deceptive/conman characters.

 

Which I find quite funny considering Paladins are the ones with high resolve ;)

Edited by Veevoir
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

resolve, save for a few tank builds, appears to be a serious dump stat contender.  its near uselessness from a mechanics perspective actually makes us more convinced that resolve will be important insofar as role-play and dialogue encounters is concerned.

At least in one place in beta resolve is used to make a convincing lie. It is also described as "mental intimidation", so I'd guess it is quite important for deceptive/conman characters.

 

Which I find quite funny considering Paladins are the ones with high resolve ;)

 

 

Resolve is more or less force of personality and personal will, a bit like a Willpower and Charisma attribute rolled into one, so it makes perfect sense that Paladins would have high Resolve from a thematic/narrative point of view. It also makes sense that conmen, swindlers, bards and rogues would have high resolve.

 

Which is why it's so funny that Resolve is a prime dump stat for Paladins and Rogues.

t50aJUd.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not for tank paladins which will be probably the most common usage of the class.

But for rogues - yeah. I'm kinda thinking about a gun-switching rogue just for that reason - I can make dex a dump stat (doesn't influence anything but attack speed which with guns doesnt matter) and pump some Might, Int and Resolve up. Maybe some Perception to spice things up, seems to be important for checks in dialogue/stories

An Aumauaua rider from Deadfire Archipelago. Now where did I leave my pirate ship..

Edited by Veevoir
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 we got no diplomacy skills in poe (attributes will be more vital in poe) but lore, unlike the other skills has almost 0 use outside o' dialogues.  again, the relative mechanical uselessness o' lore is part o' what makes us believe that the developers will balance that obvious seeming lack o' return on investment. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Aint Lore values used as a requirement to use scrolls? Depending on scroll frequency/gold value, it could be vital to Hybrid spellcaster builds like Fighter-Mage. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 we got no diplomacy skills in poe (attributes will be more vital in poe) but lore, unlike the other skills has almost 0 use outside o' dialogues.  again, the relative mechanical uselessness o' lore is part o' what makes us believe that the developers will balance that obvious seeming lack o' return on investment. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Aint Lore values used as a requirement to use scrolls? Depending on scroll frequency/gold value, it could be vital to Hybrid spellcaster builds like Fighter-Mage. 

 

 

In fact, it is (if I remember well, you can use a scroll of Lore/2 level... So, it is useful. And, we love some roleplaying too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 we got no diplomacy skills in poe (attributes will be more vital in poe) but lore, unlike the other skills has almost 0 use outside o' dialogues.  again, the relative mechanical uselessness o' lore is part o' what makes us believe that the developers will balance that obvious seeming lack o' return on investment. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Aint Lore values used as a requirement to use scrolls? Depending on scroll frequency/gold value, it could be vital to Hybrid spellcaster builds like Fighter-Mage. 

 

very true.  the scrolls is an important mechanic.  am not sure if it is equal to the mechanical value o' the other skills, but thanks for identifying that point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

But for rogues - yeah. I'm kinda thinking about a gun-switching rogue just for that reason - I can make dex a dump stat (doesn't influence anything but attack speed which with guns doesnt matteR)

 

I know you already know this, Veevoir, as you were posting in the thread with Sensuki's tests. Just wanted to point it out for anybody following: dex now greatly influences guns Attack speed and reload animations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

resolve, save for a few tank builds, appears to be a serious dump stat contender.  its near uselessness from a mechanics perspective actually makes us more convinced that resolve will be important insofar as role-play and dialogue encounters is concerned.

At least in one place in beta resolve is used to make a convincing lie. It is also described as "mental intimidation", so I'd guess it is quite important for deceptive/conman characters.

 

Which I find quite funny considering Paladins are the ones with high resolve ;)

 

 

Resolve is more or less force of personality and personal will, a bit like a Willpower and Charisma attribute rolled into one, so it makes perfect sense that Paladins would have high Resolve from a thematic/narrative point of view. It also makes sense that conmen, swindlers, bards and rogues would have high resolve.

 

Which is why it's so funny that Resolve is a prime dump stat for Paladins and Rogues.

 

this is where d&d messes with your head... that and folks who read dictionary definition w/o recognizing context.  yes, in some crap dictionaries, "strength o' personality" will be listed as a synonym for charisma, but w/o context, the wrong meaning is attached. a monstrous and extreme frightening troll in 3e d&d could have high charisma, 'cause some yutz at wotc read "strength of personality" somewhere in a dictionary definition for charisma and then finagled the meaning.  our scorn should be palpable. however, from a crpg rules mechanic perspective, it makes much sense to have charisma mean more than what it actual does.  d&d undead, for instance, has 0 constitution.  when d&d 3e were first released, undead were seriously handicapped when facing any mid or high level party. without having a positive charisma modifier replace their universal 0 constitution score, undead were so pathetic vulnerable to spells such as disintegrate (and other fort saves that were missing from undead list o' immunities) that it were actual amusing.  "and the all-powerful, level 20 vampire knight needs... he needs a natural 20 to make his save against your disintegrate? that's $%#@."

 

even so, the only folks that could equate charisma with resolve is d&d/crpg folks.  you can no doubt imagine a loathsome wart o' human being who makes children cry at the sight o' him-- the guy gives off a creepy vibe like the stench from befouled outhouse in georgia... in july. is it possible to conjure up such a person, who no doubts tortures small animals in his basement for fun and has never had a single friend, having towering resolve? sure.  as revolting as he is, our bipedal fungus o' a man could have the kinda will and determination to suffer any indignity or pain to achieve his goals.  

 

don't use d&d/crpg definitions.  please.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

resolve, save for a few tank builds, appears to be a serious dump stat contender.  its near uselessness from a mechanics perspective actually makes us more convinced that resolve will be important insofar as role-play and dialogue encounters is concerned.

At least in one place in beta resolve is used to make a convincing lie. It is also described as "mental intimidation", so I'd guess it is quite important for deceptive/conman characters.

 

Which I find quite funny considering Paladins are the ones with high resolve ;)

 

 

Resolve is more or less force of personality and personal will, a bit like a Willpower and Charisma attribute rolled into one, so it makes perfect sense that Paladins would have high Resolve from a thematic/narrative point of view. It also makes sense that conmen, swindlers, bards and rogues would have high resolve.

 

Which is why it's so funny that Resolve is a prime dump stat for Paladins and Rogues.

 

this is where d&d messes with your head... that and folks who read dictionary definition w/o recognizing context.  yes, in some crap dictionaries, "strength o' personality" will be listed as a synonym for charisma, but w/o context, the wrong meaning is attached. a monstrous and extreme frightening troll in 3e d&d could have high charisma, 'cause some yutz at wotc read "strength of personality" somewhere in a dictionary definition for charisma and then finagled the meaning.  our scorn should be palpable. however, from a crpg rules mechanic perspective, it makes much sense to have charisma mean more than what it actual does.  d&d undead, for instance, has 0 constitution.  when d&d 3e were first released, undead were seriously handicapped when facing any mid or high level party. without having a positive charisma modifier replace their universal 0 constitution score, undead were so pathetic vulnerable to spells such as disintegrate (and other fort saves that were missing from undead list o' immunities) that it were actual amusing.  "and the all-powerful, level 20 vampire knight needs... he needs a natural 20 to make his save against your disintegrate? that's $%#@."

 

even so, the only folks that could equate charisma with resolve is d&d/crpg folks.  you can no doubt imagine a loathsome wart o' human being who makes children cry at the sight o' him-- the guy gives off a creepy vibe like the stench from befouled outhouse in georgia... in july. is it possible to conjure up such a person, who no doubts tortures small animals in his basement for fun and has never had a single friend, having towering resolve? sure.  as revolting as he is, our bipedal fungus o' a man could have the kinda will and determination to suffer any indignity or pain to achieve his goals.  

 

don't use d&d/crpg definitions.  please.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

But by the D&D definition of charisma, you can have the exact same character, substituting Resolve for Charisma. The dictionary definition of charisma is really meaningless in this context.

t50aJUd.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is poe.  d&d definitions is what is meaningless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

But for rogues - yeah. I'm kinda thinking about a gun-switching rogue just for that reason - I can make dex a dump stat (doesn't influence anything but attack speed which with guns doesnt matter) 

 

So let me get this straight... I read on the wiki http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Dexterity that "In combat, it affects the character's Action Speed with all attacks" but it has no influence on the speed with which you can fire your pistol? What is the reasoning behind that? Is it just a firearm thing or does attack speed only influence melee weapons? *confused*

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But for rogues - yeah. I'm kinda thinking about a gun-switching rogue just for that reason - I can make dex a dump stat (doesn't influence anything but attack speed which with guns doesnt matter) 

 

So let me get this straight... I read on the wiki http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Dexterity that "In combat, it affects the character's Action Speed with all attacks" but it has no influence on the speed with which you can fire your pistol? What is the reasoning behind that? Is it just a firearm thing or does attack speed only influence melee weapons? *confused*

 

If I understand it right, the main things that slows down guns is the reload speed, which dex doesn't affect.  So it isn't that dex has _zero_ effect (it affects the attack animation, IIRC). Its just that the minor speed boost on the attack itself is insignificant compared to the reload speed.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the best/a good weapon class for a dual wield melee rogue?  Ruffian?

Or probably Noble for maces.

 

For the record, I really dislike the way these groups work.  Rarely do I want any two in a single group, and the group names are... eh.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the best/a good weapon class for a dual wield melee rogue?  Ruffian?

You don't really need to spec in a specific weapon class with rogues.

It only gives you +6 Acc.

With Reckless Assault (modal)ability you get +8 acc and x1.2 dmg.

Id put that point into something like two weapon fighting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is the best/a good weapon class for a dual wield melee rogue?  Ruffian?

You don't really need to spec in a specific weapon class with rogues.

It only gives you +6 Acc.

With Reckless Assault (modal)ability you get +8 acc and x1.2 dmg.

Id put that point into something like two weapon fighting.

 

 

Hmm. I'd rather stack the rogue's damage multipliers on a two handed weapon.  (Sneak attack + reckless + blind or cripple strikes + ???)

 

And increased accuracy does help the rogue keep off the miss chances altogether and push up the crit chance.  Not entirely sure it is worth it to take the weapon talent, but I suspect the rogue isn't lacking for talent choices...

Edited by Voss
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But for rogues - yeah. I'm kinda thinking about a gun-switching rogue just for that reason - I can make dex a dump stat (doesn't influence anything but attack speed which with guns doesnt matter) 

 

So let me get this straight... I read on the wiki http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Dexterity that "In combat, it affects the character's Action Speed with all attacks" but it has no influence on the speed with which you can fire your pistol? What is the reasoning behind that? Is it just a firearm thing or does attack speed only influence melee weapons? *confused*

 

Attack consists of 3 phases: attack, recovery (+additional recovery penalty for 2H and guns, varies),(+reload for crossbow/guns).

 

I was under the impression that only attack time is modified by dex, which in itself is just a smaler part of time spent between shots. So minimal impact of Dex.

 

However it was proven in the "dex influence" thread that comparing Dex 19 Arquebus shooter to Dex 10 - the first one go 5 shots out in the time dex 10 one got 4. So the impact is pretty noticeable.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is the best/a good weapon class for a dual wield melee rogue?  Ruffian?

You don't really need to spec in a specific weapon class with rogues.

It only gives you +6 Acc.

With Reckless Assault (modal)ability you get +8 acc and x1.2 dmg.

Id put that point into something like two weapon fighting.

 

 

The fact that you can get +Accuracy from something else doesn't invalidate bonus Accuracy from other sources. +6 Accuracy still isn't bad.

t50aJUd.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...