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White People: What They Say in Public vs Behind Closed Doors


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In South Africa we have a very offensive word to describe black people, I'm sure most of you are familiar with it. It starts with a k.

I know your word. Working with South Africans for more than a decade, it's hard not to learn a bit about some aspects of South Africa, even if not visiting the country itself. It is indeed considered more offensive than the 'n' word by an order of magnitude.

 

Yeah as opposed to not white people. But, yeah, contrary to what PC bullcrap pretends.. racism is NOT a white only disease.

South Africa not only had white/black racism in the past, asian immigrants and day labourers were considered third rate human beings, despised by both whtie and black people. Not sure what their status is today in modern South Africa. Phillipinos are considered slaves and personal property in many Arab countries. Newly rich Chinese are some of the worst bigots you can run into today. Feel free to add to the list. It is indeed not limited to a particular group of people.

 

 

Good post and you offer some accurate insights into the whole South African perspective of what is considered offensive 

 

So most progressive South Africans try really hard to not use any derogatory words to describe other racial groups. You could argue we are oversensitive but I just believe its better to not say anything that would be considered racist or historically insensitive. And that doesn't mean you cant criticize people when its valid , its just  how you say it. The biggest issue I find nowadays is that previously disenfranchised racial groups, like some black South Africans , have no issue with unintended racist or bigoted comments. For example racism and sexism is a big no-no in our culture but many people are fine with homophobia and xenophobia when it comes to other African economic  immigrants who come to South Africa looking for economic opportunities 

 

There is the mistaken and annoying view from some sectors that racism can only be practiced by whites against blacks. And of course this needs to be corrected which the media attempts to do :)

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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While I am certainly no stranger to profanity, particularly when building fences or trying to start chainsaws, I find the use of racial slurs to be very crass and "low class". I don't believe I've ever called anyone down for doing it and I've certainly heard it done in conversations both public and private. That is because I do believe the only mouth anyone is responsible for is their own.

 

However I don't think I'd keep the company of someone who does use that kind of language. I don't think I'd hang out with someone who picks their nose and eats the byproduct either for much the same reason. I think the quickest way to discourage this kind of thing is not punishment and suppression but scorn and ridicule. After all, it's been something that gets you into trouble all along and it still happens.  

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If I'm not mistaken "niger" is the latin word for black. Why is it "offensive"?

 

Its really irrespective what words use to mean, its what they symbolize now that matters :)

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Okay, to throw in for the weird thing that partially relates:

 

They keep talking about doing a film remake of the Dambusters story.  WW2 squadron of bombers that dropped the bouncing bomb. The squadron leader had a dog that was called "Niger-dog", because it was literally, a black dog. However every time they keep talking about doing the film, it comes up that they always say they'll rename the dog to be "sensitive" to modern thought.

 

So to throw down that question, political correctness running wild?  The dog was called that not be offensive or racist, but because it was a black dog. Like calling a tabby cat "Ginger" or a Dalmatian "Spot".    For the other side, if you're re-telling a historical event, should you change even minor details like that just to be politically correct, or is that just being revisionist?

Edited by Raithe

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If I'm not mistaken "niger" is the latin word for black. Why is it "offensive"?

**** is part of the human anatomy. Calling somebody an **** is sometimes still considered being offensive. Sometimes context and intent matter.

 

Edit: The censored word referred to the rear orifice through which human waste gets disposed of

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**** is part of the human anatomy. Calling somebody an **** is sometimes still considered being offensive. Sometimes context and intent matter.

 

Edit: The censored word referred to the rear orifice through which human waste gets disposed of

ITT: mod is foiled by stupid-ass language filter. Classic.

 

OP: You misspelled "Beauton Gilbow".

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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**** is part of the human anatomy. Calling somebody an **** is sometimes still considered being offensive. Sometimes context and intent matter.

 

Edit: The censored word referred to the rear orifice through which human waste gets disposed of

ITT: mod is foiled by stupid-ass language filter. Classic.

 

OP: You misspelled "Beauton Gilbow".

 

In a thread about inappropriate language, no less!  lol

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There is a major difference in pronunciation between Niger and the slur.  It makes a world of difference how you say things.  Every year I teach 7th graders about the Niger River.

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If I'm not mistaken "niger" is the latin word for black. Why is it "offensive"?

 

Its really irrespective what words use to mean, its what they symbolize now that matters original.gif

 

 

What does it symbolyze? Is it related to the Atlantic slave trade?

 

It has a long history, but generally got regarded as an "offensive" term second half of last century. Before that, it was considered a perfectly good word, the same way as slavery and racism was considered perfectly good practises. When the latter changed, the use of the word did too.

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Gromnir, do you have a "NA indian name"? Is that practice no longer used?

 

Disclaimer: 99% of my knowledge of NA's is from old Westerns.

too much westerns, and is kinda complicated.  for instance, while we all know crazy horse and sitting bull, that were not their birth names, and in ordinary conversation it would be less likely for any oglala/lakota to use such names.  is no oglala family names, but many did and do give birth names that ain't gonna be social security card fare.  giving oglala birth names is common.  our father, who were military, saw no point. so no oglala birth name.  but the birth name is typical temporary and other names will be acquired eventual. birth name is a kinda nickname. our grandparents actually raised us and they gave us a name that were used by everybody anyways... or rather  we had a "nickname" that were used interchangeably with "boy" for the first 12.5 years o' our life.  for various reasons, in oglala records, we has two recognized names, one o' which is identical to the name on our social security card, but neither o' which is the one our grandparents gave to us.  'course, typical, when speaking with family or friends back home, a complete other name is actual used and is all very natural to us, but is seeming strange. 

 

the matter is further complicated 'cause the lakota language is darn close to dying. very few folks under age 60 actual know lakota. each generation knows less. at pine ridge there is always classes for such stuff, but is much like taking spanish or french in high school or college... but less so. folks learn words or phrases, but w/o native speakers to speak to, the language skills is lost or degrade.  our parents actual had college degrees, and eventual advanced degrees. one o' our grandparents had a bachelors from dartmouth and a masters from ucla. even so, our parents didn't seem to know just how advantageous it is for a child to learn multiple languages-- our grandparents were discouraged from teaching us lakota. nevertheless, while our grandparents didn't "teach" us lakota, they spoke lakota as much/more than english, so we know more than do most 40 somethings. naming is close tied to language, and genuine knowledge o' the language is near dead. 

 

so, yes to having oglala names, and yes to the practice, but the answer were necessarily more complex than you likely expected and chances are you don't have the answer you were looking for regardless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

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You have an Obsidz name, Grom... Fights With Trolls.

Edited by Cantousent
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so, yes to having olala names, and yes to the practice, but the answer were necessarily more complex than you likely expected and chances are you don't have the answer you were looking for regardless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Good information and I don't have an agenda. I didn't expect you to reveal your name, I was just wondering if the practice still exists.

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so, yes to having olala names, and yes to the practice, but the answer were necessarily more complex than you likely expected and chances are you don't have the answer you were looking for regardless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Good information and I don't have an agenda. I didn't expect you to reveal your name, I was just wondering if the practice still exists.

 

 

I have to be honest I would love to know your oglala name, unless of course  its confidential for some reason?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I have to be honest I would love to know your oglala name, unless of course  its confidential for some reason?

 

Bruce the Identity Thief! tongue.png

 

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken "niger" is the latin word for black. Why is it "offensive"?

Its really irrespective what words use to mean, its what they symbolize now that matters original.gif

 

What does it symbolyze? Is it related to the Atlantic slave trade?

 

It has a long history, but generally got regarded as an "offensive" term second half of last century. Before that, it was considered a perfectly good word, the same way as slavery and racism was considered perfectly good practises. When the latter changed, the use of the word did too.

 

Pretty sure it was considered offensive before that, but probably depended heavily on which side of saying it you were on.

 

(Also - and I'm not defending it - but with respect to the original post, I'd suspect that pretty much any white person born before, say, 1948 or so PROBABLY has uttered something that'd be considered racist now.  Not guaranteed, but highly different times)

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There is no consensus on the word. Not all black people use it and some are even against it being used at all

 

I'm against using the words white, CIS, popcorn and clown

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(Also - and I'm not defending it - but with respect to the original post, I'd suspect that pretty much any white person born before, say, 1948 or so PROBABLY has uttered something that'd be considered racist now.  Not guaranteed, but highly different times)

Aye. You should have heard what my father called Brazil nuts.

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There is no consensus on the word. Not all black people use it and some are even against it being used at all

 

I'm against using the words white, CIS, popcorn and clown

 

 

Cool, I guess

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(Also - and I'm not defending it - but with respect to the original post, I'd suspect that pretty much any white person born before, say, 1948 or so PROBABLY has uttered something that'd be considered racist now.  Not guaranteed, but highly different times)

Aye. You should have heard what my father called Brazil nuts.

 

 

Yeah, they were sold under that name for many years (you can, occasionally, see it crop up in really old films on signs in stores and such).

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There is no consensus on the word. Not all black people use it and some are even against it being used at all

 

I'm against using the words white, CIS, popcorn and clown

 

 

None of those words are offensive, to any people if at all, and therefore its  not relevant to see them in the same way n**r is used. So I don't get your comparison or point ?

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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