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Obama's Iran talks

politics Iran US Israel Obama Netanyahu

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#21
HoonDing

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Elections in Israel are coming up. That's all one needs to know.



#22
Enoch

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http://www.bbc.com/n...e-east-31716684
 
Am i the only one who is worried that Netanyahu can only keep track of three or four sentences at a time. Look at that pile of pages. There is room for a lot more bullet points on an A4 page than that and since everything is a punchline I don't see how one would need anything other than bullet points.


Or he's just too proud to get his eyesight checked and get glasses.

 

 

A number of years back, I had occassion to see the late Senator Robert Byrd give a brief talk.  He used notes, bound in a 3-ring binder, that were printed in what I estimated to be a 72-point font. 

 

Politicians-- even octogenarian ones-- don't like being seen with their reading glasses on. 

 

 

Edit:  As to the circumstances and content of the speech, this is the kind of thing that everybody comes out of looking bad.  Just a terrible idea to begin with, with foreign officials on both sides publicly allowing themselves to be used as props in the internal politics of their supposed allies. 


Edited by Enoch, 04 March 2015 - 10:53 AM.


#23
Meshugger

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Open trade and diplomatic relations with Iran instead.

 

The future is bright with a youth that is highly secular and down-right anti-islamic. Many are embracing their Persian heritage and some even convert to Zoroastrianism. Also bear in mind that even if it is an Islamic country, they are predominantly Shia, which makes them an outsider compared to all the other middle eastern countries.  Align with them, and the Israeli lobby slightly loses power and most importantly, the land of terrorism, Saudi-Arabia loses some as well. With this new alliegence, there is of course the difficulty of what to do ISIS, but it's Iran's interest to defeat them as much as the Syrian government. Make way for the possible dissolution of Iraq for the Kurdish nation in the north Sunni-Iraq in the middle the Peoples Republic of Shia-Iraq in the south after ISIS is finally defeated. Iran will ofcourse have more influence in P.R.S.I., but it will be a good leverage against the Saudi in the south. Turkey of course will hate it, but what are they gonna do as NATO member? Align with Russia? Hahaha.

 

With the new indirect influence over Hezbollah thanks to better diplomatic connections, there is also more hope of permanent peace in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Thanks to having dimished the power and influence of all in favour of a slightly stronger Iran will leave no one with any bigger advantage. Without this power, a peace conference will be possible and permanent lines drawn in the sand in the holy land.

 

Obama is so stupid, elect me as God-Emporor and I will do this within a year. 


Edited by Meshugger, 04 March 2015 - 12:02 PM.

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#24
Volourn

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"If the USA attacks Iran"

 

I never said the US should attack Iran. That's like extremely last resort. But, it's also silly to negoiate a 'deal' when the side you negoiate with has no intention to honouring said deal and you are getting nothing for it.



#25
Namutree

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"Obama is so stupid, elect me as God-Emporor and I will do this within a year."

Not sure how realistic your idea is, but I liked this line and your confidence.

 

EDIT: For some reason my posting box is all white and generally messed up. It seems I couldn't quote you properly.


Edited by Namutree, 04 March 2015 - 01:41 PM.


#26
Valsuelm

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How is Israel trying to get the goyim to work for it news?

 

Well, most goyim don't even realize what they are.

 

That said, what recently happened is news. Bibi's speech is nothing new, but the circumstances the speech was given under, and the divide, whether real or manufactured for political theater, is unusual.


Edited by Valsuelm, 04 March 2015 - 02:01 PM.


#27
Rostere

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benjamin-netanyahu_0.jpg?itok=6sh_HfDE

 

 

Ah, yes... The speech famously known as the "Looney Tunes speech" for the cartoonish imagery.

 

 

[The Israelis] themselves had a useful relationship with Iran up until the Iranian revolution, and they know the country well. Whatever Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu might tell journalists, I don’t think he actually believes that he can permanently prevent some degree of American-Iranian rapprochement. He may, however, be demanding a bribe for his eventual acquiescence: All right, you will have a deal with Iran. Now, what are you going to give me in return? More West Bank settlements, more and cheaper armaments, more intelligence-sharing?

 

Source: http://www.theatlant...to-iran/383512/

 

I absolutely *DO NOT* object to the latter two, especially as it pertains to actual existential threats to Israel, but if it undermines the first, then forget it.

 

The truth is that illegal settlement construction, forced relocation on an ethnic basis and land confiscations is already at an all-time high, Obama can't give Netanyahu anything in that regard...

 

Yea... it remains to be seen if alienating much of his base with his endorsement of Romney and Israel will hurt or help him more.

 

I went to see Ron Paul speak last year. The crowd of course was made up almost entirely of people who like what he says. He got lots of applause over the course of his speech and some standing ovations. On two issues only, he got a lukewarm at best response from the crowd. One was his discussion of the issue of abortion and 'a woman's right to choose', and the other was his son. The crowd was more receptive to the former. Each of the few times he tried to promote his son the crowd's applause level shank very noticeably. Prior to Rand coming out for Romney or Israel that would not have happened. And in fact it is a great point of consternation for many Ron Paul fans that Rand doesn't have his father's integrity and/or views.

 

So Rand has likely lost a lot of votes with his pandering. Will he get more than he lost from the pandering? We'll find out next year.

 

Rand Paul is running for president. He's pandering. Expect more pandering until he wins the republican nomination or fails to obtain it.

 

Here is a must-read article about this article about Rand Paul's "Israel Problem". Apparently Paul "only gave a Citizen Kane applause", "clapped to slowly", "appeared unenthusiastic" and is thus completely blowing his chances of Republican donor support. He defends himself by saying that he gave "Netanyahu 50 standing ovations". Apparently that's not enough.

 

I can't help but feel sorry for the Republican party being hostage to such a narrow and dangerous special interest group. Following this, Republican candidate in 2016 will be someone who has at least said implicitly that they will take military action against Iran - and there's not much anyone can do about this, unless they have .

 

Yeah so he should suck the **** of the man who prefers to support the country that wants to destroy his country. That's ludicrous. Anyone who defends  any pro Iran stance is evil. This is a country who publicly declares theya re going to wipe other countries off the map.  They should be treated exactly the way NK is not worth negoiations.  The US has made about a billion 'deals' with Iran and Iran has basically laughed at every single of them more than willing to break them. They'll do the same with the current deal about to be agreed on.

 

Let's not twist words. The original quote about "wiping off the map" means just that in the same sense that Reagan wanted to "wipe East Germany off the map". You can see here how the Iranian government erected a monument to the Iranian Jews who died fighting for Iran in the Iran-Iraq war. Iranian influence throughout the Middle East is actually rather positive if we compare to countries like Saudi Arabia who is constantly leaking money to headchoppers seemingly by the amount of minorities they want to kill/enslave. We have Hezbollah (which much to the dismay of Lebanese Sunni have been in a very successful coalition with Lebanese Christians since 2005), we have Iranian influence in Afghanistan acting as a "moderating and stabilizing force" as per Western media, and Iran and the US are de facto allies in the fight against ISIS. The only dividing issue is the status of the Palestinian people. Plus the fact that Iran is also an ally of Assad, who is a crackpot dictator.

 

Open trade and diplomatic relations with Iran instead.

 

Yes, I think this is inevitable, but it also a matter of quite some time. I've always found the idea that the US has an amicable relationship with Saudi Arabia but not Iran to be laughable, considering the influences of their respective countries. Iran is clearly a country that represents a traditionally secular part of the Muslim world, which has sadly come under the rule of a very religious movement. The revolution in Iran against the Shah (who was put on the throne in a Western-supported coup) was made by both socialists, Shia Islamists and republican nationalists. As with all violent revolutions, the power is often in the end grabbed by the most motivated group, in this case the Islamists (who also had the most support in rural parts). The illusion that the other secular factions would get any say disappeared soon. Still, there exists divisions to this day - firstly within the clerical establishment (of course), and between the Basij militia (IMO the dangerous component of Iranian politics) and the political class. Crucially, the protests after the 2009 elections must be viewed in the light of Basij putting down protests against their pet candidate Ahmadinejad. As such I think Iran is on the right path now, and it's only a question of time before they will produce an Iranian Gorbachev, at which point we much hope that the Basij militia's influence is not too strong.

 

EDIT: Oh, and everybody should see this:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Sv7tK2JD6Gg


Edited by Rostere, 04 March 2015 - 02:18 PM.


#28
HoonDing

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I googled that pic because I thought it had to be shopped... yeah.



#29
Rostere

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"The Republican Love Affair with Bibi Netanyahu"

 

"I’m afraid the issue here is war and peace…  I didn’t hear him once offer a sound proposal besides war. Because all he said was you can’t cut a deal, any deal is bad. He basically said that. You can’t get a better deal! He treats us like rubes. You don’t think we’re not trying to get the best possible deal, come on!…

 

I think it was a terrible precedent. I tell you, This is going to be remembered. This is going to be remembered as a very dark day for American democracy when you bring a foreign leader in to try and displace the American leader. Obama sets our foreign policy, not Netanyahu."

 

All I'm thinking about is how awful it must be to be a Republican sympathizer in this age of Sheldon Adelson. Seeing the reactions to this speech, any Republican presidential candidate in 2016 will be for the use of force (i.e. war) against Iran. A pity if you like the economic side of their politics.



#30
Namutree

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"The Republican Love Affair with Bibi Netanyahu"

 

"I’m afraid the issue here is war and peace…  I didn’t hear him once offer a sound proposal besides war. Because all he said was you can’t cut a deal, any deal is bad. He basically said that. You can’t get a better deal! He treats us like rubes. You don’t think we’re not trying to get the best possible deal, come on!…

 

I think it was a terrible precedent. I tell you, This is going to be remembered. This is going to be remembered as a very dark day for American democracy when you bring a foreign leader in to try and displace the American leader. Obama sets our foreign policy, not Netanyahu."

 

All I'm thinking about is how awful it must be to be a Republican sympathizer in this age of Sheldon Adelson. Seeing the reactions to this speech, any Republican presidential candidate in 2016 will be for the use of force (i.e. war) against Iran. A pity if you like the economic side of their politics.

They don't have to be for war with Iran. They can just ignore what he said. I think you are overestimating the importance of this speech and the republican reaction to it. They just want to be seen as pro-Israel as possible. Most of them know better than to start a war with Iran.



#31
Guard Dog

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Comrade Obama continue deliver lulz for us

http://www.israelnat...66#.VPRDdUmaXQd

 

Obama Threatened to Shoot Down IAF Iran Strike

 

 

Win of US elections by Obama is a best operation of KGB/FSB forever.

99234093-obama.jpg

I KNEW it!  :lol:



#32
Rostere

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I'd agree with that based on common sense, but history tells me otherwise.



#33
Namutree

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I'd agree with that based on common sense, but history tells me otherwise.

War with Iran is not politically viable. They won't try it. Put your fears to rest.



#34
Namutree

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Rand Paul trying to spin this as a call for more negotiation.



#35
Guard Dog

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That "letter" was a stupid thing to do. We have our quibbles here at home. We've even resorted to shooting at each other in the past and probably will again in the future. But goddamit when it comes to dealing with a foreign government we put up a untied front behind the President. Even if he is an incompetent jackass. You don't publically cut his legs out like that. 

 

Of course the Dems were all just as happy a pigs in ---- when Teddy Kennedy did it to Regan with the USSR.



#36
Wrath of Dagon

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Or Bonyer and Kerry with Sandanistas, or a dozen other examples. Obola stated he's going to ignore Congress when making a treaty, a direct violation of the Constitution. The letter is a result of that. Anyway, negotiating a nuclear treaty with Iran is much like negotiating a nuclear treaty with Al Qaeda or IS.

#37
KaineParker

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Republicans taking a dig at Obama to please their Israeli masters allies isn't surprising at all, but that letter sucked because it read like it was written by high school girls. Is it too much to ask for our politicians to put some effort into their insults?

#38
Hurlshot

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 Anyway, negotiating a nuclear treaty with Iran is much like negotiating a nuclear treaty with Al Qaeda or IS.

 

I certainly don't trust Iran, but that is a ridiculous thing to say.  It's up there with the folks who compare the US to an Imperial power of the 19th century.



#39
Volourn

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No, it isn't.  How many nuclear deals have the US and Iran agreed to already? A dozen/ How many of them have actually  done anything worthwhile? ZERO. Or else we wouldn't be talking about them making yet another deal. Plus, Iran is a country that mass murders their own  citizens,  have their hands in so many meat pies (probably just as much as the Great Satan in the ME), the fact they want to wipte entire nations off the map, etc., etc. Iran  gov't 9as opposed to the people) is pure garbage. Throw them in the garbage with NK, ISIS, and AQ.

 

Bottom line is that any deal 'made' with them will be broken by them or be so twisted that it will be completely infectual.



#40
Wrath of Dagon

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@Hurl What's ridiculous about it? You don't know Iran is number one terror sponsoring state, and their ideology is the same as AQ and IS, except it's the Shiite variety? Edit: It'll work about as well as the N Korean nuclear negotiations.

Edited by Wrath of Dagon, 10 March 2015 - 07:10 PM.






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