Gromnir Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-russian-opposition-leader-is-shot-dead.html?_r=0 we were made aware that not everyvody is a nytimes subscriber. who knew? "In recent years, Mr. Nemtsov’s star had been eclipsed by Aleksei A. Navalny, the anticorruption blogger who played a leading role in the 2011 protests. But Mr. Nemtsov remained active and was a leading organizer of this weekend’s planned rally. "Mr. Nemtsov was organizing the rally in part because Mr. Navalny is currently serving a two-week jail sentence for handing out leaflets on the subway. The rally was also noteworthy because it was the first political action inside Russia specifically endorsed by Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, the exiled former political prisoner, who had signed the petition for a parade permit. "The investigative committee of the prosecutor’s office said gunmen shot Mr. Nemtsov four times in the back as he walked over the bridge, and by accident or design theatrically placed his body on the wet asphalt with the Kremlin visible behind. No suspects have been reported to be in custody." is not the whole article. oh well. Natalia Estemirova, and Aleksandr V. Litvinenko and now Boris Nemstov? terrible. alternative source: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/27/389598306/putin-critic-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead Edited February 28, 2015 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 (edited) http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-russian-opposition-leader-is-shot-dead.html?_r=0 Yeah I saw this, its appalling but really just confirms the nature of the political climate in Russia. At least Putin condemned it Edited February 28, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Some tweets I've found in some defence watcher circles: Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned Can I ask you what your'e basing this analysis on? I didn't realize there was such a gap between Putin and the FSB, I always thought that was for plausible deniability I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpriest Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Putin is FSB. We are talking here about a former KGB officer that is now a most powerful person in Russia. Some of his methods are questionable but you cant deny he lifted Russia from the super bad state they were during the drunken bear era... Sure, he probably could have solved the issue of crimeas black sea fleet base better but only someone retarded would think that Russians would give up one of the most important assets in their geopolitcis and military presence. Ukraine situation is a fault of two sides and much more.complicated than a lot of media coverage (because media are driven by senasationalism and domestic propaganda) Sure the convinient deaths of some people appear, but to be honest the western democracy is also flawed as it is the rule of stupid. Majority of population is stupid yet every vote has the same weight. The original greek democracy was different as there was something called census which was dependant on wealth and education if i recall correctly and not all citizens had the right to vote. How can someone having no idea.about economy etc decide which party will win and create laws? Its stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Well Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned Can I ask you what your'e basing this analysis on?I didn't realize there was such a gap between Putin and the FSB, I always thought that was for plausible deniability It could be people he egged on in Ukraine but doesn't exactly control. Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I'll just grab some popcorn. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 He reportedly received multiple threats over his Charlie Hebdo position. And they found the car from which he was shot, it has Ingush number plates. Ingushetia is a Muslim republic in the Caucasus. The version of islamist attack is easily more believable and grounded than <insert your favorite FSB conspiracy theory>. Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine The man himself and the particular clique of opposition personalities around him have a propensity for grandiose claims and outright bull****. All of the stuff he put out in recent years were based on compounding open source information and conjecture. Forgive me for being very skeptical about the existence of any 'unequivocal proof' that isn't freely available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Actually his wife can hire killer for revenge to husband (he constantly waste money to prostitutes and this has been spotted by paparazzi many times). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obyknven Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 freedom of speech in Murica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I thought everyone had proof of that already from what NATO and Ukraine have been saying. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Some tweets I've found in some defence watcher circles: How long after it was this photo taken though? I don't imagine they never clean up crime scenes. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rostere Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 He reportedly received multiple threats over his Charlie Hebdo position. And they found the car from which he was shot, it has Ingush number plates. Ingushetia is a Muslim republic in the Caucasus. The version of islamist attack is easily more believable and grounded than <insert your favorite FSB conspiracy theory>. Why not both? Not that I know anything at all about this case, but the typical secret police would hardly do it themselves, and if they did so, not without disguise. I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted. "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted. Kind of funny reading that sentence, though it's not much of a surprise at this point. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Yeah, I rather doubt most intelligence services have any problem assassinating anyone they want and getting away with it no matter how gullible or not people are. Set up an alternative (often suicide) with evidence then label everyone who disagrees as a conspiracy theorist- worked pretty well for Tony Blair vis-a-vis David Kelly, after all. Find it rather doubtful that it was an 'official' assassination, personally. Pretty sure that Putin doesn't care that much about the 14% of Russians who don't approve of him, and he has other tools to tackle those he wants taken out of the picture, per Khordokovsky and Navalny so has very little to gain and there was no imminent threat. Muslims, some oligarch he's annoyed, someone thinking they're doing Putin a favour or someone thinking they're being a patriot appear far more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjshae Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-russian-opposition-leader-is-shot-dead.html?_r=0 Yeah I saw this, its appalling but really just confirms the nature of the political climate in Russia. At least Putin condemned it Yes, Putin "condemns" this act. 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fighter Posted March 1, 2015 Share Posted March 1, 2015 Why not both? Not that I know anything at all about this case, but the typical secret police would hardly do it themselves, and if they did so, not without disguise. I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted. Because it's hard to come up with a motive without again indulging in conspiracy theories. Nemtsov's popularity was in low single digits, it's hard to imagine him being threatening in any way, and the government doesn't need this extra pr headache right now on top of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted March 3, 2015 Author Share Posted March 3, 2015 the suggestion that some kinda islamaic extremist group is responsible for the murder is difficult to believe... 'cause islamic terrorists/extremists is notorious for maintaining a low-profile with the media and avoiding publicity whenever possible? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31691727 list at the end of the article should raise eyebrows. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) "Pretty sure that Putin doesn't care that much about the 14% of Russians who don't approve of him," You actually believe the Russian polls are even remotely accurate? L0L You do realize it is usually dictators who have really high polling numbers. I mean Saddam Hussein had what? 99%. LMAO And, we all know how we worship the Great NK Leader in that country. Edited March 3, 2015 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, you can go look at some historical results if you like. Pretty sure Mr Kim or Saddam wouldn't tolerate a 5.8/10 for presidential performance (a C grade) or a mere 16% saying that things would improve (vs 45% saying they wouldn't), both results from previous polls by the same people while Putin was in office. Afraid you'll just have to face the FACT!s, Putin is genuinely popular. And it's largely the west's response that has made him so. If they weren't so keen on talking Russia down he'd have had far more domestic backlash, but nobody likes traitors and at the moment Cameron, Kerry et alia are managing to make anyone pro west look like a traitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 That view only proves Russia's bigoted views but then again Russia is run by white dudes. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Nemtsov was banging an Ukrainian model, his wife maybe just hired a hitman. 1 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 Well, you can go look at some historical results if you like. Pretty sure Mr Kim or Saddam wouldn't tolerate a 5.8/10 for presidential performance (a C grade) or a mere 16% saying that things would improve (vs 45% saying they wouldn't), both results from previous polls by the same people while Putin was in office. Afraid you'll just have to face the FACT!s, Putin is genuinely popular. And it's largely the west's response that has made him so. If they weren't so keen on talking Russia down he'd have had far more domestic backlash, but nobody likes traitors and at the moment Cameron, Kerry et alia are managing to make anyone pro west look like a traitor. Sure, he is popular in Russia buts because Putin controls the narrative within Russia and the media. So Russians see what he wants them to see, I find it amazing that your definition of a popular leader is someone who decides that censorship and propaganda are the way to control political support to ensure his popularity ratings "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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