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My Ultra-Conservative/Reactionary Wishlist for the Expansion


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8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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^ Seconded. "Hey, I can fire some crazy-cool arrow, instead of just an ouchy-piercy arrow!" is a nice choice to have.

 

As for the finity (that should be a word... it's just infinity without the "in") of ammo, the only beneficial purpose of that is the limitation of your tactical options for dishing out damage/effects. So, while "oh no! I only have 5 arrows, and I'll have to buy 5 more after I fire those!" does accomplish that limitation, it also introduces unintentional tedium. No player needs the game to simulate individual arrow management. It gets even worse when it comes to sling bullets, stones, darts, etc.

 

In a tabletop game, to put things in perspective, you don't ask the DM "I'd like to search for the arrows I fired," then have him describe to you where all of them are. Then make individual rolls to pick up each and every one of them. That would just be silly. You just say "I'd like to retrieve all the arrows I can find."

 

When it comes down to it, arrows and ammo are not scrolls. You don't use them once and they're just gone (except maybe bullets, but... they're bullets. Unless they're +70 Holy Bullets of Magicness, you're pretty much always going to stock up on plenty of them whenever you leave town. If you never run out before you make it to the next place to get some, then it just becomes a chore to restock on them. And their price isn't significant enough to warrant any kind of economical management.) So, its' understandable that you'd be able to retrieve arrows, for example.

 

We talked about this in another thread, though. A lot. Tons of ways you can still limit the use of such items in combat and such, without requiring the tedium of buying and stocking them in inventory slots all the time, and manually refilling those slots all the time. "Oh no! I forgot to refill my quiver from 7 arrows back to 20 before this fight! I sure am glad the game requires me to do that, because that's something my Ranger, who's been using a bow since he was 3, would totally forget, and it contributes so much to the game besides being a thing I can annoyingly forget at times!"

 

Oh, also (I can't edit posts), you say "arrows and ammo are not scrolls"; in Divinity: Original Sin, they practically are, so there is precedent for it (popular precedence, even). It feels incredibly wonky, though, because for whatever reason you can shoot arrows at long ranges with a regular bow, but when you use the "special" arrows (of which there are many, which is kinda sweet) the range is suddenly arbitrary depending on what arrow you use (and the range isn't even listed like with scrolls & spells) and the AP cost (which in no way translates to PoE, I realize) is also completely arbitrary.

 

Special ammunition beats that system 9 days a week; at least IE special arrows behaved like the regular arrows. Really, just make it quiver-based (each kind of arrow fills into a separate quiver, but the "normal" arrows comes from a quiver that is essentially endless).

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Some literal magic bullets, arrows of explosion, poisoned daggers, etc.

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Magic bullets... the setting authors should say if this would be alright. Magic and guns reminds me of Arcanum's intro.

 

 

8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

 

I hadn't thought of that either. But I've never had such a problem in the IE games. There it only took a few seconds of trap-searching to discover any traps if you had a chance to discover them. Then I would turn off the "detect traps" mode.

Edited by Gairnulf

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8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

 

I hadn't thought of that either. But I've never had such a problem in the IE games. There it only took a few seconds of trap-searching to discover any traps if you had a chance to discover them. Then I would turn off the "detect traps" mode.

How did you know when to break off stealth and start detecting traps? You can't unless you start detecting the traps...which you can't do while in stealth mode.

 

Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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 I hadn't thought of that either. But I've never had such a problem in the IE games. There it only took a few seconds of trap-searching to discover any traps if you had a chance to discover them. Then I would turn off the "detect traps" mode.

How did you know when to break off stealth and start detecting traps? You can't unless you start detecting the traps...which you can't do while in stealth mode.

 

Well, there's the tedious way: Stealth forward a tiny bit, click 'detect traps' (you can detect traps in the time when you're coming out of stealth mode and before you're seen by the enemy).  Then run away round the corner (if enemies are present), re-stealth, rinse and repeat.

Or it's just easier to have your mage cast invisibility - lasts 24 hours and detecting and disarming traps doesn't break it.

 

So yeah, combining stealth and trap-detection makes sense to me in PoE.

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I accepted a lot of IE features being omitted from PoE with the argument that they were not very enjoyable. I reconciled with other features being omitted with the explanation that development time/resources were not enough. When it comes to the expansion though, I will raise my expectations. Taking into account the fact that the team has experience with the engine tools and has a solid base to build upon. The features I was sort of disappointed to see gone from PoE and want back in the expansion are these, off the top of my head:

 

1. Arrows, bullets and bolts for projectile weapons.

2. Weight carry capacity on per-party member basis

3. Map notes

4. The damn volume sliders from IE games.

5. The damn interface feedback sliders from IE games.

6. Splitting the party between non-party-required areas, which in combination with

7. Stealth on party member level will allow for the party's prowler ro scout ahead in buildings effectively.

8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

9. Pickpocket as an ability - I think there is a no small segment of players who find it fun to pickpocket every npc just to see what they'll find. I know I've done it throughout Baldur's Gate and Athkathla :) It's similar to that silly mmo game where you just open chests. The surprise of what you'll find drives you on. Not to mention that a pickpocket mechanic can be used in quests.

 

I'll limit this wishlist to features I want back from IE games, without writing about new features which I think would add to the gameplay such as a more complex search for containers mechanic for example.

 

What do you think about this little list. Anything here that you also consider important?

 

Go and install Baldurs gate or icewind dale again.

 

If they don't include that things is because they decide to don't do it, i don't want a copy paste from IE games, in the expansion i want a new adventure or something that expand the plot of the game with the same party.

Yes i know, my english sux.

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8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

 

 

In IE. Gairnulf may not have thought of it, but when I want to separate Stealth and Trap-Detection, I never imagined that they would be exclusive to eachother.

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8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

 

 

In IE. Gairnulf may not have thought of it, but when I want to separate Stealth and Trap-Detection, I never imagined that they would be exclusive to eachother.

 

Then you'd have to click two icons instead of one. What would be the difference, besides more needless clicking?

Edited by Quetzalcoatl
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8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

How so? In the Infinity Engine games you couldn't really stealth reliably in dungeons because you would just trigger traps all over the place. Combining both stealth and trap-detection solves that problem.

 

 

In IE. Gairnulf may not have thought of it, but when I want to separate Stealth and Trap-Detection, I never imagined that they would be exclusive to eachother.

 

Then you'd have to click two icons instead of one. What would be the difference, besides more needless clicking?

 

 

That you'd be able to detect traps without sneaking and vice versa.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Having played the game for about 20 hours I can say that I don't want any of those things except maybe map notes. In fact most of them I feel would actually make the game worse. Micromanaging ammo is not fun. Having to choose between being invisible and walking into a trap vs. avoiding traps and walking into a pack of mobs was not even remotely fun. Having to do a stealth sweep with my thief in every new area before I could start moving the party felt very tedious.

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Wishlist (note that I am not that far in the game):

1. More NPC's. Preferably multiple playable NPC's per class. This will allow players to construct their parties by class and personalities.

2. Ranger buffs (more pet abilities and also pet upgrades as you climb in levels ie upgrade from wolf to dire wolf to super wolf).

3. A "spellsword" type of class. Ciphers a step in the right direction. I guess I miss the multiclass option from BG (loved my dual katana wielding fighter/mage).

4. Guilds - fighters/thieves/mage/Druid circles/Paladin Headquarters/etc.

5. Walk toggle (for immersion and the roleplayers out there).

6. More awesomeness in general.

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  • 2 months later...

1. Arrows, bullets and bolts for projectile weapons.

2. Weight carry capacity on per-party member basis

3. Map notes

4. The damn volume sliders from IE games.

5. The damn interface feedback sliders from IE games.

6. Splitting the party between non-party-required areas, which in combination with

7. Stealth on party member level will allow for the party's prowler ro scout ahead in buildings effectively.

8. Separated stealth and trap-detecting stance - it just looks silly to have your party go semi-transparent and in stealth when you really want to look for traps, Immersion-breaking too.

9. Pickpocket as an ability

(added)10. No radius of area looting 

(added)11. Party AI controls 

Things are looking up. :) I knew I shouldn't start playing this game until it's actually finished.
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Pickpocketing never works in videogames because it always either something you can savescum or read a list on the Internet to learn who has the worthwhile loot and what skill level you need to get it. Yes maybe some of you don't do that well done but 99% of people aren't going to keep playing after they try to pickpocket someone, fail and turn the whole town hostile.

 

It is not my problem, that some people don't know how to play videogames. I want pickpocketing. What is the point of playing a thief, if he can't steal? This is the only game that I own (I don't own much), in which I don't want to play a thief.

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Pickpocketing never works in videogames because it always either something you can savescum or read a list on the Internet to learn who has the worthwhile loot and what skill level you need to get it. Yes maybe some of you don't do that well done but 99% of people aren't going to keep playing after they try to pickpocket someone, fail and turn the whole town hostile.

 

It is not my problem, that some people don't know how to play videogames. I want pickpocketing. What is the point of playing a thief, if he can't steal? This is the only game that I own (I don't own much), in which I don't want to play a thief.

 

funny.  this is one o' the few games in which we wanna play a rogue.  the ie games all favored thief multi-classing 'cause vanilla thieves sucked in comparison to any thief multi-class... and lord knows we never needed the slight gold accumulation we garnered from picking pockets.  heck, other than a few meta-game pick-pocket targets, ie game pp skill were kinda a waste... and if need be, we could down potions to give us the requisite skill we had otherwise neglected.  the d&d d20 COMPUTER games were likewise making the rogue a wasted class that only made sense as a multi-class combo.  in pnp, a d20 rogue could be the bestest class, just so long as you had a dm that made frequent use o' skill checks, but crpg d&d 3e rogues were facing disproportionate combat, and in combat, multi-class rogues were always superior to vanilla. and again, our crpg rogue/clerics, rogue/rangers and rogue/fighters invariably bypassed the pickpocket skill regardless.

 

poe is different... purposeful.  the goal were to make a rogue potent in combat.  like poe rogues or not, but is ridiculous to ignore their combat efficacy. we prefer a rogue that ain't a relative gimp in combat.

 

as for poe pickpocket?  

 

*shrug*

 

am suspecting the developers saw similar to Gromnir in that copper/gold would already be plentiful, and making a few named npcs prime pickpocket targets for special items would be an incredible waste o' effort to makes an otherwise useless skill... useful.

 

on the other hand, to do stoopid linking o' skills to classes and then makes stealth so terrible were a serious oversight by the developers.  Gromnir suggestion: get rid o' class-specific skill boosts AND fix stealth.  well, it looks as if obsidian is at least finally fixing stealth.  still, we not see the point o' tying skills to specific classes in poe... so even if there were a horrible pickpocket skill, we would not see it as needing be integral linked to the rogue anyways.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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The only "old school" feature I want is the ability to escape combat, loot in combat, and move between areas in combat.

Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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Maybe I'm not normal, but I don't play a class, because it's useful (When you say useful, I guess you mean it is useful in combat). I play it just for the sake of playing it. Buffing and Debuffing some mathematical values is so boring. I see those games more in the way I see Monkey Island or a Choose your own Adventure-Book. You get some skills and some items and see, what you can do with them. I seldom use multiclass for my thief. Same for Class Kits like Swashbuckler and stuff. I think being a weakling is the main reason to be a thief, otherwise I would have become an assassin. I always liked to play weak characters and see how far I can get with that. My favourite character for example was Xan, whom a lot of people found too weak. You could achieve a lot with Xan, if you were creative. I can easily beat a modded BG1+2 with just Xan and a thief. Or Jan. Playing with Jan is so tricky and so much fun. You could built your own army of Jan copies, so you didn't have to send him in combat where he would die instantly. In PoE that would be impossible as there are a lot of situations where you can't avoid combat and the combat itself is so limited.

 

Edit: Oh, and I don't want to pickpocket just for the money. I want it as a way to solve quests and just for the sake of doing it. Immersion and stuff.

Edited by Lord_Mord

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Playing with Jan is so tricky and so much fun. You could built your own army of Jan copies, so you didn't have to send him in combat where he would die instantly. In PoE that would be impossible as there are a lot of situations where you can't avoid combat and the combat itself is so limited.

 

Jan isn't weak at all. Jan, like all thieves in BG2 (if you have the TOB expansion installed) is actually stupidly OP. Personally, I kinda wish HLA hadn't been so friggin' powerful as they kinda break the game.

 

 

  Gromnir suggestion: get rid o' class-specific skill boosts 

 

I'm not into that idea. It would make the classes kinda bland.

 

 

 

 

As for my wishlist: Enemy's with some friggin' hard counters and weakness. Sick of enemies that can be beaten with standard tactics. Not that there is anything wrong with such enemies, but I sure wish we had a bit more variety.

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Jan, like all thieves in BG2 (if you have the TOB expansion installed) is actually stupidly OP

 

Guess that depends on the way you play, too. I never use abilites at all. I don't even know what kinds of abilities thiefs get on higher levels. I don't backstab or something. If I play Jan, I'm just using his illusion spells to trick enemies. If I play with Xan on the other hand, I just use mind tricks and so on. I try not to min/max, ignore ways to make mages invulnerable and don't use abilities that are in my opinion no fun. So I don't care if he's weak, I play him as he was. But that's impossible in PoE. You just have to kill everyone. And you have to use your spells to make damage, damage, damage. Using anything except for Minorettas Whatever is just a stupid idea in that game.

Edited by Lord_Mord

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