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Yeah, whatever.

 

You only need like 5 spells in DA:O, all the others are just filler content in that regard.

You don't need any spells in DA:O, (I had the most fun with my all-rogue party playthough) but that's not the point. At all.

 

Even simple, unbalanced combat can be fun, if the system in place is deep enough to allow you to play (or role play) how you want in combat. DA2....does....not....let....fighters....Dual wield. Or use Bows. What kind of insipid, moronic design is that? If it wasn't for the fact that the game has about 10,000 examples of precisely this same type of Retard-motivated limitations from the ground up, (combat and otherwise), I'd have given it a 0/10 and condemned it for that ALONE.

 

 

Look, I respect the fact that you value freedom to play games however you like and be able to try out what ever playstyle fits you and have room for experimentation.

 

That's a different set of things that I look for, but both are valid, and I'm ok with that.

 

But raising that to the level of "this is not designed how I want. 0/10" is a bit much.  Saying it's less tactical than DAO is plain wrong.

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I dunno about DA2, never played it, but it cannot possibly be worse than DA:O.

It's 10 times worse. Because It's more limited. Mages have less spells., Fighters and rogues have less customization options. They removed friendly fire(!). They removed the tactical view camera. They removed stealth. They removed finishing blows. They reduced the bestiary. They removed tactical positioning. They removed the ability to miss (literally. You can no longer miss.), they removed spell combos.

 

Then they sped everything up and gave us the "awesome button" so that we wouldn't miss the removal of what little tactical combat the first game had.

 

 

So much wrong with this post. Mages have just as many spells. Fights and rogues have less GIMPED customization options.

 

Friendly Fire is THERE in NIGHTMARE.

 

Spell combos are THERE as cross-class combos.

 

Stealth EXISTS on rogues(maybe not implemented how you want, but its there).

 

Hits CAN miss. 

 

At this point you're just spouting out plain falsehoods so i'll stop wasting time

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Sure, Ok, everyone's tastes are different, and if little Johnny Xbox user sees ME SMASH, POP-A-MOLE, button-mashing gameplay as "tactical goodness!", then who am I to argue with him? It's his "opinion"...blah blah blah.

 

Enough of this banal prattle. DA2 was a bad f*cking game. Period. Even BIOWARE admits that.

Edited by Stun
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Spell combos are THERE as cross-class combos.

What? That makes no sense.

 

That's like saying This game has Swords....as Bows.

 

 

You freeze a bunch of enemies and then shatter them. Except in DA2 its with an ability rather than stone fist/critting like in DAO.

 

How is this different?

 

Or are you talking about retarded combos like "storm of the century" that amount to an "I win" button?

 

The combo system in DA2 was way more interesting functionally and tactically than DAO. You NEEDED cross-class combos to deal the amounts of damage needed to succeed and setting them up was fun (Staggering an enemy then unleashing Explosive strike on them with a rogue for tons of dmg) and challenging (trying not to cone of cold your own party and then trying not to AOE your party with Mighty Blow).

 

Compare this with DAO spell combos, which basically boiled down to the shatter combo and storm of the century. Everything else was there for novelty value. "Oh I discovered a new combo! Cute! Probably not gonna use it again"

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I must have missed the new guideline in which the definition of the CRPG genre was downgraded to combat and combat systems alone...

 

I guess it's the same guideline according to which every other genre is now solely defined by the quality of the graphics... :p

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Yes. DA2 was so awful I only played it for a few hours. Anyone with half a brain would do the same and uninstall that **** before it gave you cancer. There's zero defense for this stuff other than; I'm a special snowflake who should STFU. The game was bad and should be avoided by everyone. Even butthurt gamers who bought it and are desperately trying to justify doing so. 

 

Now, DA:I. I only played that for a few hours as well and never went back(thank god for piracy) and I have similar low opinions of anyone who were in any way entertained by that travesty. Of the entire "Dragon Age Series", only Origins was worth anything at all. 

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- How can I live my life if I can't even tell good from evil?

- Eh, they're both fine choices. Whatever floats your boat. 

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Sure, Ok, everyone's tastes are different, and if little Johnny Xbox user sees ME SMASH, POP-A-MOLE, button-mashing gameplay as "tactical goodness!", then who am I to argue with him? It's his "opinion"...blah blah blah.

 

Enough of this banal prattle. DA2 was a bad f*cking game. Period. Even BIOWARE admits that.

 

Umm, I don't even own an Xbox. I haven't owned a console since 1997 which was an N64.

However I reserve the right all the same to call out "PC master race" hipsters like you all the same.

 

DA2 was a bad game. It was bad in a lot of places. Combat however was where it made an actual improvement.

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I must have missed the new guideline in which the definition of the CRPG genre was downgraded to combat and combat systems alone...

 

I guess it's the same guideline according to which every other genre is now solely defined by the quality of the graphics... :p

 

No-one dictated such a guideline. You can hate on DA2 all you want. Hate on the story. Hate on the environment design. Hate on the companions. Those  things are genuinley bad and make it arguably a bad game in that regard. However the moment you insert unsubstantiated BS such as "it's less tactical than DAO" is the moment I call it out.

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I was halfway through a serious reponse to your first post, but... I just can't. I can't wrap my head around the fact that someone actually liked airborne darkspawn.

 

It was basically either that or throw them all at the player at once

 

This isn't even remotely true. There's a bajillion alternatives to the craptastic wave warfare design AND the mindless "dump everything at the player at once" design. But they all require competent designers to actually 1) Give a Sh*t and 2) Be creative with the enemy types and their placement; and 3) Program the enemy AI to be a little more....adult-like. This is all Out of the Question for Bioware, however, as they'd see encounter creativity as a waste of time, And a waste of money, And a waste of effort, considering the fanbase.

 

This is Bioware creativity for DAII

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw

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How is this different?

How are spell combos different from cross class combos?

 

OK, spell combos don't just create party synergy (example: freeze + mighty blow = shatter), they also create a new spell. (Example: sleep + Horror = Nightmare)

 

But again, welcome to DA2, where every detail is cut in half. Where 1 is better than 2. Where less options is better than more. Where tactical is defined by how fast you can dispatch the waves. Where the Awesome Button trumps pause and play. where thinking and strategizing are cuss words.

 

Where poor suckers are conned into paying $60 for the contents of EA's trash bin.

Edited by Stun
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How is this different?

How are spell combos different from cross class combos?

 

OK, spell combos don't just create party synergy (example: freeze + mighty blow = shatter), they also create a new spell. (Example: sleep + Horror = Nightmare)

 

But again, welcome to DA2, where every detail is cut in half.

 

 

Reviewing the combos in DAO, there actually were a few more than the ones I stated. I used paralysis explosion fairly often, and shockwave to counter the enemy's crushing prisons. So I take back what I said about there only being a few.

 

The nature of a Combo however is the synergy between two different things. I think the dichotomy is apparent again. You need something new, but I just want something effective, and the damage you get from cross class combos is exactly that. There's nothing wrong with it as a design choice. I see paring down too many unnecessary and insignificant choices down to a few interesting weighty ones as a plus.

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I was halfway through a serious reponse to your first post, but... I just can't. I can't wrap my head around the fact that someone actually liked airborne darkspawn.

 

It was basically either that or throw them all at the player at once

 

This isn't even remotely true. There's a bajillion alternatives to the craptastic wave warfare design AND the mindless "dump everything at the player at once" design. But they all require competent designers to actually 1) Give a Sh*t and 2) Be creative with the enemy types and their placement; and 3) Program the enemy AI to be a little more....adult-like. This is all Out of the Question for Bioware, however, as they'd see encounter creativity as a waste of time, And a waste of money, And a waste of effort, considering the fanbase.

 

This is Bioware creativity for DAII

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw

 

 

So you're treating Bioware devs with no PR experience exactly like a Politician? Grab onto his every word?

 

Speaking of which one of Biowares biggest failures IMO is actually their marketing department, and how they over-promised on so many things with their releases. When they under-delivered (but still delivered a decent package) that was when the inevitable fan backlash and turdstorm erupted, but it's about as justified as a bunch of partisans grabbing onto a political gaffe.

 

P.S. Also this really really gets me because bringing up a video like this is exactly what I would expect of someone who belonged to one of the "pitchfork crowd"  when DA2 and ME3 came out: disparage/threaten the staff directly. This was what made me realised opinions from the crowd can sometimes be worse than garbage.

Edited by Idleray
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False choices are pretty common in games. Designers ought to keep that in mind when creating their game. Choice between good and better or bad and good is not much of a choice at all.

 

How about the spell combos or something similar? Potentially good, but only if the option of not using the combo is better in some cases as well. If you get something that just gives extra damage when you do this + that... Looks like a no-brainer to me.

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So you're treating Bioware devs with no PR experience exactly like a Politician? Grab onto his every word?

 

Speaking of which one of Biowares biggest failures IMO is actually their marketing department, and how they over-promised on so many things with their releases. When they under-delivered (but still delivered a decent package) that was when the inevitable fan backlash and turdstorm erupted, but it's about as justified as a bunch of partisans grabbing onto a political gaffe.

 

P.S. Also this really really gets me because bringing up a video like this is exactly what I would expect of someone who belonged to one of the "pitchfork crowd"  when DA2 and ME3 came out: disparage/threaten the staff directly. This was what made me realised opinions from the crowd can sometimes be worse than garbage.

No, I'm treating them like morons that hardly know what they are doing anymore.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, we can add some other serious flaws to DAII, non combat related.

 

1-Quests were you find an item and you magically know who's the owner. Give them the item and the quests ends there.

2-You can't talk to your party members while they are in party.

3-You can't fully customize your companion's equipment.

4-The plot is insipid and stale. And it only works as a weak setup for DA:I

5-Whatever you choose during the game becomes meaningless at the end because the end plays out the exact same way for everyone. At least DA:O had and ending that could play out in a few different ways (you sacrifice yourself, you command Alister/Loghain to sacrifice himself, you choose Morrigan's ritual)

6-The loot is something I will never understand. You can equip armors only on your character, but you find equipment for all classes. Obviously pointless, this is not Diablo, I can't ****ing trade with no one. Just make the game drop more money.

7-Trash loot. Same as above. Just make the game drop more ****ing money.

8-The dialogue system in DA:O was OK, but no, we had to go to voiced dialogue that imposes limitations because of costs. And on top of it they made it completely pointless because you have in 90% of the cases the same answer, just spoken in a different way "good/bad/retarded".

10-Getting to know your companions means that all of them try to get in your pants and if you refuse they get mad.

11-The story has frequent time skips and characters that you've never seen that start talking to you with "If it isn't Hawke! Long time no see!". I've never ****ing seen you. SHUT UP!

12-Quick mention on the fact that every location is recycled at least 6-7 times. Flipped, mirrored, with different door closed out.

13-Every ****ing mage in the game is a blood mage or an abomination.

14-Rune system has been dulled out and oversimplified.

15-Darkspawn have been redesigned to look more like pale-fetish-zombies that moves like idiots extras from tv shows like Xena and Hercules.

16-Elves became the stuff of nightmares. The eluvian broke because DAII elves are too ****ing ugly and the mirror got scared.

 

Just on top of my head.

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DAII should not even be compared to PoE. First time I tried playing DAII went like this. Create my mundane human rogue. Get into a fight and scream at the screen about my rogue being a freakin ninja doing acrobats all over. Only reason I beat that garbage was cause I hate spending that kind of money and not beating the game. Game was made for people who don't like tactics, easy combat, ratings for gear so you didn't have to figure out witch gear was better, and boring scenery.

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DAII should not even be compared to PoE. First time I tried playing DAII went like this. Create my mundane human rogue. Get into a fight and scream at the screen about my rogue being a freakin ninja doing acrobats all over. Only reason I beat that garbage was cause I hate spending that kind of money and not beating the game. Game was made for people who don't like tactics, easy combat, ratings for gear so you didn't have to figure out witch gear was better, and boring scenery.

Now that you mention it. Gear with a star ranking system.

 

That's so retarded I don't even know where to start.

But the worst is that if in chapter 2 you get an item with the same stats of another item you found in chapter 1, the new one would have like 4 stars, the old one 1 star.

 

WHY?!

Why does a +7 defense ring from chapter 2 has more stars than a +7 defense ring from chapter 1?!

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Speaking of which one of Biowares biggest failures IMO is actually their marketing department,

Then you don't know jack about Marketing, bud. The only measurement of a marketing campaign's success is whether it succeeds in selling its product. Bioware's marketing approach for DA2, as embarrassing and disgustingly whore-ish as it was, was a miraculous success. It managed to sell an unsellable game. (DA:2's first week sales were TWICE as high as DA:O's, for example)

 

But, as it is plain for all to see, not even a successful marketing campaign can help you against word of mouth. Consequently, DA2's sales took a spectacular nose dive after week 1...or right about the time when the game was finally forced to survive on its own merits.

Edited by Stun
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Ok I should have known better to start this. I began by pointing out that someone's passing remark (DA2 being less tactical than DAO)  was untrue, now people are saying all kinds of things I never said. 

 

I never compared DA2 to POE, nor did I say that DA2 didn't have a myriad of design flaws.

 

Also, marketing is bad if it tarnishes the name of your brand because that's what you rely on in the end. I do not believe Biowares goal is to destroy their brand. They tried a few new things in DA2 and got burnt, and I don't doubt that rushing the game out had a few things to do with it.

 

Trying to make Biowares staff out  to be "morons" and calling their marketing "whorish" is just hyper-inflating and slandering, and the kind of circle-jerking BS that gets people riled up enough to eventually attack Bioware's staff personally.

 

They(Bioware) did mess up when they underestimated the devotion of their fans and how readily that devotion would turn to hate, but the gibbering pitchfork crowd and their tired attempts to one-up each other in proclaiming how DA2 is the Worst Thing Ever and that Everything About It Is A Failure looks just as bad.

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Personally, I prefer role playing games to roll playing games. I felt that DA:O gave me more flexibility in how I chose to play my role, and was not a big fan of DA2 in that regard. However, I'm also slightly disappointed in the "role" playing aspect of PoE as well; it feels like a lot more effort went into the mechanics, and not as much into the story / role playing aspect. My character's background feels mostly irrelevant, and my choices haven't felt particularly powerful thus far.

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Also, marketing is bad if it tarnishes the name of your brand

Bioware's marketing did not tarnish the Dragon Age name. Dragon Age 2 did that all by itself.

 

Yes. But the marketing provided those unfortunate videos where hapless developers who were understandably psyched about their game became fodder for the kind of hate-fests that resulted in people leaving the company due to death threats.

 

The game on its own merits was decent at best, disappointing at worst. It was rushed, it had problems, but it was an okay game deserving of say a 7. Too bad it had the misfortune of bearing the DA name and all the expectations associated with the original. Those expectations were in part fanned by EA(or was it Bioware)'s overpromising, and I understand that broken promises hurt.

 

I'm not gonna stand by however and let people trash even the good parts of that game just because it had bad parts and of problems of expectation vs the actual game itself.

Edited by Idleray
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Also, marketing is bad if it tarnishes the name of your brand

Bioware's marketing did not tarnish the Dragon Age name. Dragon Age 2 did that all by itself.

 

 

^ Pretty much. Theres a reason Bioware managed to come from being one of the most loved companies after Mass Effect 1 and 2, which was done because of the success of these 2 games but add to that Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights 1 and KOTOR, which are all epic games, to being one of the most joked about companies recently.

 

Bottom line is, make bad games, you'll have a bad name. 

 

Bioware has it now because of the greatest joke of the century: Mass Effect 3, but add to that DA2, SW TOR (cant believe they wasted 200 million on that ****) and DA:I (which is the embodiement of mediocre)

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