Poll: Should there be a penalty for being knocked out?

[Namutree]

I think it's silly that getting knocked out has no consequences. It's dumb mechanically, "Better not heal my front line; they'll be better off just going limp". It's bad for immersion too.

 

Now, I'm not asking for any major change. Just a small Health penalty for letting your characters getting knocked out. 10% would be fine; maybe only 5% for the Barbarian. 

 

I know it's late in the development, but I think you guys could get this mechanic in. It seems simple enough. I also think it would leave room for some new spells to add in the expansion. 

 

What do you guys think? Is it a good idea? Is it too late to add this?

 

Another suugestion I read once was the idea that Health could slowly drain the while you're knocked out. Thinking about it; that's a pretty good idea.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Namutree

[Osvir]

I've touched this subject before. But I picked "Yes, it needs to be harsh" and "It's fine as it is".

Before:
- Get knocked out to 0 Stamina? #% chance of permanent injury (Lose an arm/equipment slot, an eye, perception, stat/attribute and so on).

Maybe in an expansion. Or take some pointers from NEO Scavenger's Injury System.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Osvir

[Starwars]

I would like to see some form of penalty also. I'd like that Health takes a hit or some form of injury system (which would need a special resource to heal).

 

I liked the "health ticking down" mechanic in Storm of Zehir. But I'm not sure how I would like it in a game where there is, after all, no resurrection. It would have to be a pretty slow tick to feel good then I think.

 

But yes, I would certainly welcome some form of penalty there. I doubt we'll see a change like this this late in development though.

[BlueLion]

Is this not where 'minor fatigue' etc comes in? Or am I confusing that with health?

[Sarex]

I think there should be a penalty. For an example when your character gets knocked out, he should die. Now I know this is a radical idea, but I think it could work.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Sarex

[Namutree]

I think there should be a penalty. For an example when your character gets knocked out, he should die. Now I know this is a radical idea, but I think it could work.

That's too extreme given the mechanics. Wanna retreat when you're in trouble? ENGAGEMENT!

[wanderon]

So what's the purpose of this idea for a new mechanic?

 

More realism?

 

More difficulty across all difficulty levels?

 

Masochism?

 

Bored on a Sunday afternoon? 

[Namutree]

So what's the purpose of this idea for a new mechanic?

 

More realism?

 

More difficulty across all difficulty levels?

 

Masochism?

 

Bored on a Sunday afternoon? 

1: Right now the game kinda punishes you for healing more than just letting your pc get knocked out. If there was a penalty then letting your pc's get knocked out would be less OP. This would be good for game balance, and would make the game more tactical.

 

2: It would add more tension to the combat. Especially would be great when you manage to just barely keep a pc alive.

 

3: It would be good for immersion. It's bizarre to see your whole team nearly wiped out by an exploding trap; only for everyone to get up virtually unaffected. Watch Josh's live stream to see how silly it can get.

 

4: It would barely make the game harder if the penalty were light; which is what I suggested. 

[archangel979]

I voted Yes, a minor penalty but I would rather there is a choice in options to decide between a minor and a major penalty.

But with no option, for the general audience better to have a light penalty.

[AndreaColombo]

I think there should be a penalty. For an example when your character gets knocked out, he should die. Now I know this is a radical idea, but I think it could work.

You can enable permanent death in the game's menu.

[archangel979]

 

I think there should be a penalty. For an example when your character gets knocked out, he should die. Now I know this is a radical idea, but I think it could work.

You can enable permanent death in the game's menu.

 

That is for when your Health goes to 0, not when your Endurance goes to 0.

[ruzen]

I accually liked the DA:O system where you get different wounds for getting down. Well. There is still expantion coming maybe...

[Namutree]

I accually liked the DA:O system where you get different wounds for getting down. Well. There is still expantion coming maybe...

I doubt the expansion is going to change the game rules. If this doesn't get implemented before release we probably won't see it until poe2; if at all.

[MReed]

This is an odd request -- the reason that the "Get back up when endurance (= HP) hits zero" is that many players consistently reload the game immediately when someone dies. After all, there is no point in playing out a combat with a man down when you know you are going to have to replay it anyway. Any significant penalty will result in this group of players doing the exact same thing -- except that the game is /balanced/ with the assumption that hitting zero endurance is no big deal. And it is certainly out of scope to rebalance the entire game at this point, so...

 

I suspect that this is something that could be modded in fairly easily, for those that really enjoy either quick loading the game or dealing with whatever consequences they feel are appropriate. I wouldn't expect Obsidian to make any changes in this game -- maybe in PoE 2.

[Karkarov]

There technically is a penalty.  I believe there is a chance (depending on the challenge setting you play on) that you can become "maimed" until you get a rest in which basically gives you a major stat penalty.

[Namutree]

This is an odd request -- the reason that the "Get back up when endurance (= HP) hits zero" is that many players consistently reload the game immediately when someone dies. After all, there is no point in playing out a combat with a man down when you know you are going to have to replay it anyway. Any significant penalty will result in this group of players doing the exact same thing --

Replace significant with harsh and you'd be right. All I'm asking for is a small health penalty; that's not very harsh. Would you reload if you faced a 10% health penalty for letting a character get knocked out? I doubt many would.

 

 

. And it is certainly out of scope to rebalance the entire game at this point, so...

 

If the penalty is light it wouldn't need any re-balancing. Especially when I suspect that Obsidian expects players to want to keep their characters active in battle. Josh's behavior in the recent stream suggests that at least.

 

 

There technically is a penalty.  I believe there is a chance (depending on the challenge setting you play on) that you can become "maimed" until you get a rest in which basically gives you a major stat penalty.

You're characters become maimed when they run out of health; not when they get knocked out. There is no penalty; in battle your party members are disposable pawns. Not good for battle tension IMO.

[drunetovich]

Well, character gets removed from combat, is it not considered a penalty?

But yes, I think enemies should not switch to other characters before giving few more kicks to downed party member, depleting health pool directly.

That way knockout would not be an easy way out of the pinch safely conserving hp.

Edited January 26, 2015 by drunetovich

[Namutree]

Well, character gets removed from combat, is it not considered a penalty?

 

No.

[Karkarov]

You're characters become maimed when they run out of health; not when they get knocked out. There is no penalty; in battle your party members are disposable pawns. Not good for battle tension IMO.

Not exactly.  When you run out of health you are out period until you rest, depending on challenge setting anyway cause if you are on a higher challenge it actually means your character is perma dead.  Maiming is healed by resting just like being out of health.  Unless they decided to remove the maiming system.

 

Meanwhile...

 

Well, character gets removed from combat, is it not considered a penalty?

That is a pretty fair point.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Karkarov

[drunetovich]

 

Well, character gets removed from combat, is it not considered a penalty?

 

No.

 

 

You don't have to answer rhetorical questions

But I understand that immediate penalty does not feel sufficient, and some long term penalty in form of health loss feel needed.

Edited January 26, 2015 by drunetovich

[Namutree]

 

You're characters become maimed when they run out of health; not when they get knocked out. There is no penalty; in battle your party members are disposable pawns. Not good for battle tension IMO.

Not exactly.  When you run out of health you are out period until you rest, depending on challenge setting anyway cause if you are on a higher challenge it actually means your character is perma dead.  Maiming is healed by resting just like being out of health.  Unless they decided to remove the maiming system.

 

 

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Maimed

 

Your character will be maimed only if they run out of health. Rest and the maim is gone.

 

There is no connection between getting knocked out and being maimed.

 

EDIT: They will also get up after battle. Don't need to rest just cuz' you ran out of health.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Namutree

[BrainMuncher]

Haven't voted as I would like to play the game myself before forming an opinion.

 

However if there were to be a penalty for getting knocked out perhaps it could be that you get a small amount of fatigue for each KO, say 10-15 fatigue. This would mean athletics would make you better able to deal with KOs. Maybe also make it so that if you are KO'd while suffering from critical fatigue you become maimed.

 

Just an idea.

[Luckmann]

I would like to see some form of penalty also. I'd like that Health takes a hit or some form of injury system (which would need a special resource to heal).

 

I liked the "health ticking down" mechanic in Storm of Zehir. But I'm not sure how I would like it in a game where there is, after all, no resurrection. It would have to be a pretty slow tick to feel good then I think.

 

But yes, I would certainly welcome some form of penalty there. I doubt we'll see a change like this this late in development though.

 

I'd really enjoy a "bleed out"-mechanic.

 

I realize that it's incredibly unlikely that they'll change something at this point in development, so we'll probably have to resign ourselves to just accepting the incredibly immersion-breaking experience of people suddenly passing out and then becoming ignored for no good reason, but in terms of what can be done, I think that;

1. When knocked out upon reaching 0 Endurance, you should lose ½% of your total health per second, giving you a theoretical maximum of 200 seconds to live.
2. When getting up from being knocked out, you reduce your maximum total health and endurance by 10% until the next time you rest, meaning you'll go increasingly fragile for each time you're knocked out.
3. When getting knocked out, you should become Maimed, a status effect that can only be removed with high-level per-day abilities or items of similar price and scarcity to camping supplies. A system largely similar to the one employed in DA:O, but harsher (Injuries in DA:O were never a problem thanks to wide availability and access to cures).

[archangel979]

Also if I understood right, once your character is down he is immune to further damage like Fireball that he is within range of. At least that should be changed.

Edited January 26, 2015 by archangel979

[PrimeJunta]

I like it the way it is. Adding a penalty would just turn a party member going down into a reload trigger. 

 

(Or, if the penalty was really minor/could be fixed without resting, it'd just add some drudgery.)