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Chanters: a perfect class, or a need-to-be-nerfed class?


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So, I've found myself going back and back and back again to the chanter class. No other class that I've played has been as great as the chanter. They provide all of the things that all the other classes can provide, in a neat little package.

- They start with mechanics, so you can learn how to open locks and disarm traps. While any class can do this, it's still worth mentioning, and while we don't know how useful that level 1 mechanics will be in the early game... it's almost a sure thing that it's going to have more practical application than any other skill.

- Their invocations do not result in friendly fire. They can summon, buff, debuff, and deal damage with just invoacations. While less "on demand" than wizard spells and of lower damage, invocations are VERY noticable and the class is far from useless while building up chants.

-Their chants function like a Paladin's auras, but provide more variety. Any one chant is equal to any one aura, but you can stack chants and get a wider AoE from them, which you can't do with Paladin auras. Their chants are greatly varied, and do not require talent points to learn.

- Their class talent, Ancient Memory and then Beloved of Spirits enables them to provide endurance regen comparable to a fighter, but for anyone within range.

- The class functions equally well in a melee or a ranged role, and also works great as a hybrid (open with ranged, if something gets away from your frontline then switch to melee and grab it.

 

I don't see a lot of discussion here about chanters, which baffles me. If you ask me, every class should strive for the functionality that the chanter has. They are the perfect "party leader".

 

Not to mention that in every group I run with a chanter, my chanter ends up leading the damage meter by a large margin. I think in my last run, my chanter has 9k damage, compared to my rogue having 4k.

 

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Chanters are definitely one of the best classes, and every party will be better for the inclusion of a Chanter. The best thing about them IMO is their flaming weapon aura though, that's pretty much the only Chant I use.

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Chanters are awesome. Nuff said.

"Good thing I don't heal my characters or they'd be really hurt." Is not something I should ever be thinking.

 

I use blue text when I'm being sarcastic.

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Chanters rule. They're powerful, fun, and unique; not a substitute for any other class.

 

I don't think they're way OP though. The invocations are powerful but because they only bite late in the encounter they're less significant than they could be.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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Chanters are definitely one of the best classes, and every party will be better for the inclusion of a Chanter. The best thing about them IMO is their flaming weapon aura though, that's pretty much the only Chant I use.

 

Flaming weapon first, then the one that reduces stamina over time. Hell, I have 5 chants on one cycle going, topped off with the chill chant. Completely ruins enemy parties.

You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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I usually just use the fire one, because I'm not sure if the stamina drain lingers for longer than the effect of the spell or whether it does more damage than the fire one.

The chill one is good if you're against all melee units too, but I usually find that the fire one helps me kill things quicker, and thus take the least damage in encounters.

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I think the comparison to Paladins in particular is very apt, because currently, Paladins are very rigid, very static in how they play, with very limited options, whereas the Chanter has a wide range of options that are easily comparable in power.

 

I think it's a bit of a mistake to only show the Backer Beta in the level 4-5 range, because if we compare lower levels, Paladins will have practically nothing (not even auras), whereas the Chanter is already presented with a fun, flexible and powerful mechanic.

I have yet to truly try out a Chanter myself, but they don't appear overly powerful. I think that if they are anything, they are the sweet spot other classes should be compared to.

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Why are you making statements about the Chanter class without actually having played it ?

 

btw I think there's still a few Paladin bugs (other than the animation bug), I just encountered one where the Acc bonus from Zealous Focus isn't applied.

 

edit 2: wtf, they've changed how Zealous Focus works, it now is a combat only ability and if you activate it before combat, it won't do a single thing and thus you can't use it on your opening round of attacks. Stuff that.

Edited by Sensuki
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Why are you making statements about the Chanter class without actually having played it ?

 

I have, I just haven't played it very much. My comment was on what the Chanter can do and is presented with compared to, for example, Paladins. Chanters have a range of options from the get-go that are easily comparable. I would never presume to comment on those powers individually until I've played more.

 

The mechanic is flexible, fun and engaging. Paladins get to pick between Lay on Hands 3/Rest or Flames of Devotion 1/Encounter. There's a marked difference in what they get and how it works.

 

Was my conclusion wrong or did I offend? :|

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Nope, was just wondering. I read your statement as if you hadn't actually played them yet I think I just read it wrong, so don't mind that comment.

 

I agree about Lay on Hands and Flames of Devotion. I never pick Lay on Hands. It heals you for a pitiful amount (and over time, I might add, the heal/sec is terrible) and it's per day. Flames of Devotion helps me kill things faster every encounter, night and day difference between the two abilities there.

 

edit: check this out: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69928-392-issuecomplaint-about-changes-to-paladin-auras/

Edited by Sensuki
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Nope, was just wondering. I read your statement as if you hadn't actually played them yet I think I just read it wrong, so don't mind that comment.

 

I agree about Lay on Hands and Flames of Devotion. I never pick Lay on Hands. It heals you for a pitiful amount (and over time, I might add, the heal/sec is terrible) and it's per day. Flames of Devotion helps me kill things faster every encounter, night and day difference between the two abilities there.

 

What gets me with the things the Paladin gets - speaking Flames of Devotion here, because, honestly.. I never even really tried Lay on Hands, because it just seemed to really not add anything meaningful - is that you use Flames of Devotion, and you're done. There's nothing else you can really do for the rest of that Encounter. You're down to autoattacks. Even a Fighter gets to pick between an ability that needs to be tactically deployed at some point in combat to be useful, or two Knockdowns that are tactically useful.

 

Flames of Devotion you go smack someone over the head as soon as possible and you're done.

 

Meanwhile the Chanter gets flexible auras and powers that allows them to do make a range of choices (albeit not necessarily a wide range at lvl 1) in the midst of combat, from the get-go.

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The level 1 nuke seems completely daft. Not much reason to do anything other than spam it off cd. The phantom summon thing was pretty good as well. Pace of the combat doesn't seem to favour them right now, since you don't get to use many invocations. Must be a difficult class to balance. 

 

They could use some UI improvements. In particular the tooltip for the chants could show some icons for the phrases. Also it would be nice to see the AoE of chants somehow. Are phrases supposed to benefit from Int and Resolve bonuses does anyone know?

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I'm pretty sure they're supposed to benefit from Intellect, but I don't know about Resolve. I can ask Josh on Something Awful for you about the Resolve bit.

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Even if chanter is overpowered they should leave it. It's a different type of character than I ever used an an IE game, and I like the way they function. I think the class is one of the strengths of the game, thus far.

For me its the Chanter and Cipher... the two of them, specialy in combination with a druid makes me want to play without a wizzard... somthing i never expected... not in a D&D spiriual successor

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I think the fact that Wizards can only have four spells in their Grimoire per level and we haven't really had full access to the spell list makes them not seem as cool. While certainly not anywhere near as good as in BG2, they are useful.

We can hope that the expansion can improve on their spell list.

 

Learning new spells is also *very* expensive, which is a bit nyeh.

Edited by Sensuki
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Yeah if you don't mind, could be interesting to know. I suppose it doesn't make that much difference, if it buffed the "linger" duration then you'd have slightly less down time when alternating chants but not a whole lot.

 

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Now it's a question of whether Resolve actually works on the lingering effect  :devil: I'm sure GordonHalfMan will do the honors.

 

It did in previous builds at least, I haven't checked in the latest one.

Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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Just had a look, seems to work! I shouldn't be so surprised.

 

Actually quite easy to test since you can see the duration on the buff tooltip. Seems like it's the total duration that is buffed, not just the linger time specfically, so you can get 100% uptime on alternating chants with 16 resolve I think.

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