Lephys Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 You've completely lost me, Sheikh... We can't "legitimately" care about others' feelings because we only feel our own instances of feelings? A) What would make something legitimate caring? B) You can't want someone else to be happy, just because you can't actually experience their exact happiness in a 1:1 fashion? Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wafflebum Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Only Nakia seems to grasp what codependence actually is. This is worse than talking to first year Psych majors. Folks will simply be happy knowing a company they like is doing well. That's it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoozer Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm glad everyone is using this thread to up their post count. Not like there's anything worthwhile to read here... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBripa Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Holy... I'm not sure I have enough breadcrumbs to get home at this point. I hope Obsidian does run a profit obviously, hopefully it will give them more incentive to make these types of games. I mean, as long as whatever Madden gets to make people rich for the same game with a different number on the cover, I want as much incentive as possible for people to make new games (albeit predicated on older designs in this case) with new mechanics and messages. I think with Divinity becoming so embraced by modern gamers we will see at least a few people take on cRPGs a little differently; I think people who make RPGs do so because they believe in the genre and if given a reason to believe these kinds of titles can succeed and warrant decent budgets we'll see more. That being said I tend to agree with OP, Witcher3 is (rightfully) a huge drop and it would be good for both camps not to split any sales. Altho, "You're Lucky" is a little cheeky and abrasive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Rabbit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I'm glad everyone is using this thread to up their post count. Not like there's anything worthwhile to read here... Looks like everything that could be said on topic had already been said. *shrug* People having fun now. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Only Nakia seems to grasp what codependence actually is. This is worse than talking to first year Psych majors. Folks will simply be happy knowing a company they like is doing well. That's it. And why You cant explain that without devolving into coedependency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Devolving into codependency? What's wrong with codependency here, exactly? You haven't explained that. We all depend on gaming companies to make games for us, and they depend on our money to make those games. So I would think it's obvious that a gamer would want the companies that make his favorite games to continue succeeding and profiting from the games they're making for us....so they can make more. For me, I remember when Black Isle tanked, and then, less than 2 years later, Troika. That was particularly painful. Two studios who used to make my favorite games got shut down, one after the other. Why? Lack of sales. Yet you wonder why their fans would care? Are you even a gamer? Edited December 17, 2014 by Stun 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osvir Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Off-topic curiosity: Isn't a troll codependent on codependency? Edited December 17, 2014 by Osvir 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I did. Its an addiction. The moment you start worrying about obsidians anything (financial well being, for example), the moment you become addicted to obsidian. But you can still enjoy everything obsidian does anyway without being addicted to it. Addiction is just a delusional way to think of something, it doesnt do you any good. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sheikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbag Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Off-topic curiosity: Isn't a troll codependent on codependency? A troll is dependent on the disapproval of his targets, which is kind of a backwards codependency. So you can say that trolls are coindependent. Nothing gold can stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I did. Its an addiction. The moment you start worrying about obsidians anything (financial well being, for example), the moment you become addicted to obsidian.You say that like it's a bad thing. It's not. It's called "rooting for the good guys". If there's a Company that makes good games, in an industry crawling with companies that make crap games, why wouldn't I be immensely interested to see that company profit from its works? Edited December 17, 2014 by Stun 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Most of us are interdependent on others. For instance, I am dependent on the local super market for food and household supplies, they are dependent on suppliers to get those supplies, and the super market is dependent on people to buy their goods. This is a mutually beneficial relationship. There is no addiction involved unless you are addicted to peanut butter snaps and have to have them or go nuts. Now I am not addicted to seating around worrying about whether a game developer is going to go broke if I don't buy their games. Actually there are a couple of publishers that can go broke for all I care. The fact that I want Obsidian to succeed is not a codependency and in fact it isn't even a dependency because they do not need to have me worrying about them. As for trolls I would say they are addicted to trouble making so there is a possibility that a codependency could exist. I have but one enemy: myself - Drow saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Rabbit Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Nah, it's not trolling, coindependent or any other kind. It's just this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Most of us are interdependent on others. For instance, I am dependent on the local super market for food and household supplies, No you are not. You could buy them from somewhere else, catch your own fish, whatever. With the local supermarket in reality your relationship is like this: They can sell you, you dont have to buy. They dont have to sell you, you cant buy if they dont. That last part is why its not an addiction in reality. The reality is nobody has to do anything for you. If they do, its purely from their free will. Addiction involves alot of nonfreewill. So the reality is one thing and it is not codependent. The supermarket does not have to enable you to be dependent upon them for food and you dont have to be dependent on them for food. Even if there was no other source of food available in teh world than that supermarket (there is), you could still say no to their offer and just starve to death. That is possible, which means there is in reality no codependency. You dont eve have to be able to survive. When you want to desperately grasp this thought that you, for some reason, absolutely have to survive, thats where all the codependency starts. Its simply ignoring the fact that you could die so as to feel more secure and comfortable and thats exactly what codependency does - it creates an illusin of goodness. Ignorance = bliss = codependency. If you want to continue being ignorant, so be it. Just remember that any codependent thinking involves ignorance and a delusion of good without any actual good. So you can be delusional that worrying about Obsidians financial security means they will eventually be able to make more and better games, but thats false. Thats your delusion that it achieves it, in reality it doesnt achieve anything. The only thing it achieves is that you become addicted to Obsidians games. Similar to when a crack addict at some point has to give up their addiction it is tremendously difficult because they have been severely weakend by their addiction to it, you too, in a lesser sense will be weakened by your addiction to Obsidians games. And any codependency weaknes you in the exact same way. If thats the way you want to think and you want to become weakened by things you like, so be it. But its purely your choice. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sheikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sorry, Sheikh, now you are in my opinion just getting plain ridiculous. No matter what you say human beings are dependent in varying degrees on each other. This is healthy and without this dpendency we would not have family, friends, society in general. I have but one enemy: myself - Drow saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Most of us are interdependent on others. For instance, I am dependent on the local super market for food and household supplies,No you are not. You could buy them from somewhere else, catch your own fish, whatever. Hey, that's true! Why, just the other day, I found myself heading to the store to buy some Aspirin because, well I had a headache. But then I thought to myself...why am I addicted to the pharmacy? So I turned my car around (we'll discuss that in a minute!), went back home, to my kitchen, and proceeded to cook up my own aspirin. Anyway, To make a long story short, after my entire apartment complex exploded, I decided that next time I'll just give in to my addiction and make use of the pharmacy, like a normal person. Of course, there's still the matter of my car...and my addiction to it. I NEED it. To get to places. Yes, yes, I suppose I could walk the 8 miles every day to and from work...in the rain and really cold temperatures here in the St. Louis suburbs. But again, I think I'll just (shamefully?) accept my codependent nature, like a normal person. I'm pretty sure I'll be all right. Freak. Edited December 17, 2014 by Stun 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Sorry, Sheikh, now you are in my opinion just getting plain ridiculous. No matter what you say human beings are dependent in varying degrees on each other. This is healthy and without this dpendency we would not have family, friends, society in general. They are dependent. This is not an addiction. They are not codependent. This is an addiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) Most of us are interdependent on others. For instance, I am dependent on the local super market for food and household supplies,No you are not. You could buy them from somewhere else, catch your own fish, whatever. Hey, that's true! Why, just the other day, I found myself heading to the store to buy some Aspirin because, well I had a headache. But then I thought to myself...why am I addicted to the pharmacy? So I turned my car around (we'll discuss that in a minute!), went back home, to my kitchen, and proceeded to cook up my own aspirin. Anyway, To make a long story short, after my entire apartment complex exploded, I decided that next time I'll just give in to my addiction and make use of the pharmacy, like a normal person. Of course, there's still the matter of my car...and my addiction to it. I NEED it. To get to places. Yes, yes, I suppose I could walk the 8 miles every day to and from work...in the rain and really cold temperatures here in the St. Louis suburbs. But again, I think I'll just (shamefully?) accept my codependent nature, like a normal person. I'm pretty sure I'll be all right. Freak. You could just buy the aspirin from the pharmacy without thinking of the pharmacy as your only possible source of aspirin or worse, your only possible solution to a headache. That is doing it without an addictive mindset and when you do it so, you are not addicted to your pharmacy or to aspirin. I dont recommend it though, taking aspirin for a headache is like taking cocaine for depression. Theres no fundamental difference. Both ruin your health and vitality at the benefit of temporary symptom relief - they are an escape, not a solution. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sheikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stun Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) So the reality is one thing and it is not codependent. The supermarket does not have to enable you to be dependent upon them for food and you dont have to be dependent on them for food.Bullsh*t. It's not up to you to decide, for anyone else but yourself, what is a dependence/addiction and what is simply personal preference. I plan on playing PoE, and I am intensely hopeful that it does well financially so that the studio that decided to make it, in the face of the Big Publisher model, gets suitably rewarded AND financially driven to give us a sequel. Does that mean I'm co-dependent on Obsidian? Nope. PoE will be the first Obsidian game I play since NWN2. (that's right, I skipped Fallout: New Vegas and opted for Skyrim instead. I skipped South Park: Stick of Truth and bought Divinity: Original sin instead) Go ahead, Label me. Edited December 17, 2014 by Stun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) intensely hopeful that it does well financially so that the studio that decided to make it, in the face of the Big Publisher model, gets suitably rewarded AND financially driven to give us a sequel. Thats better and more functional. Now try to express why YOU give a **** as to why obsidian gets suitably financially rewarded and driven to give you a sequel and we might be getting somewhere. In other words, express what you mean as your views - which is what they really are - not as some general truths - which any humans thoughts never are. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sheikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakia Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 This gets more absurb as it progresses. I, Stun, and others have expressed that PoE sells well and explained why we care. Some how that that was seen as a codependency relationship. If I say that I care about someone or something I am expressing my feelings and only my feelings. I do not nee to explain why I care; 2 I have but one enemy: myself - Drow saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lephys Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 I did. Its an addiction. The moment you start worrying about obsidians anything (financial well being, for example), the moment you become addicted to obsidian. You sure are worried about our worries, Skeikh. Does this mean you're addicted to us? 4 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheikh Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 (edited) I did. Its an addiction. The moment you start worrying about obsidians anything (financial well being, for example), the moment you become addicted to obsidian. You sure are worried about our worries, Skeikh. Does this mean you're addicted to us? No because I am not worried about your worries. I am here to learn how the 99% operate, which is all of you that have argued with me about codependency. If you were part of the 1% that can think, you would never argue with me, just discuss. I want to argue with you to find out how you guys work. Edited December 17, 2014 by Sheikh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lephys Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 No because I am not worried about your worries. Then we're not worried about Obsidian, either. Po-tay-toh, po-tah-toh. 1 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogocactus Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Off-topic curiosity: Isn't a troll codependent on codependency? I've been thinking this ever since Sheikh started. I don't think he's a troll though, just someone with different and strong viewpoints . Still, I do wonder whether he's not a little bit codependent on his fellow debaters. And we wouldn't want to that now, would we? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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